Killing Karma

This bitch just won’t die.  With how easy she is to keep alive she feels overpowered maybe if Ionia didn’t have so many saves it would be fine and the cost to recall is a step in the right direction. Drains, vengeance, marking her with vulnerability and sending a unit with enough power to end her several times this bitch just eludes everything. Changing it so only her first spell each round is doubled or maybe even first two spells would still make her oppressive but not a guaranteed win. 

“well kill her before she levels and end the game”

tired that I push everything to end the game but Ionia is very adapt to easily stall.

Is it just me or other people having bad karma?

I agree that Karma sure is one of the best champions after Turn 10, as designed to be.

But is she better late game then Heimerdinger, Ezreal, Nautilus, Anivia or even Yasuo?
Answer is no.

If you play decks centered on any of the champions above, you should have a decent chance to beat Karma.
If not, your goal is to end the game ASAP, because you know, just an idea, maybe late game champions are designed to win late game matchups?

So i assume the problem is not Karma, its a lack of information about how to:
a) play late game decks; 
b) close games with aggro/mid range decks;
c) deck build.

Karma is definitely a problematic and unfun card in some cases, so it probably would be best for her to only work off of the first spell you cast each round. Alternatively, maybe she should have her level 2 version by a 6/3 so that she dies easier. Honestly, the most annoying thing is her uninteractive and boring level up. Ideally, it'd be something like "Round Start: You're Enlightened and have 3 Spell Mana" so that she requires more setup to level up other than just drawing her in the late game. 

Pretty hard to win "late game" vs Karma since that player wins on turn 10 most of the time because you just lost your board to doubled pings and your opponent refilled his hand in the same round with burst draw cards. When you can stun/ping/bounce an entire board and still have your spell mana for burst spells id call that cheeze. Notice that unlike Heimer, Karma wasnt touched unless you are only counting recall cost. Doubled recall is rarely used cuz its pointless when you can instead stun and summon double 4/2's for 2 cost or deal 6 damage for 2 cost or my favorite, double barrage for 12 damage.

Funny cuz i am playing ranked with the Anivia deck i posted here, and i am facing a lot of Ez/Karma decks.
So far i didn't lose a single game to Karma, neither any of those games where anywhere close.

Sorry but anivia is a joke now that eggs are 1 hp. that means over 60% of all damage cards and minions can kill the eggs instead of 25%ish.

Anivia still isn't good. Many braum anivia decks were cutting her towards the end because they figured out the deck was just getting hard carried by the 1/5 braum rather than anivia.

Karma ezreal absolutely rolls braum anivia, and every other control deck for that matter, it's not even close. Control decks stand 0 chance against a hard combo deck.

But I do agree that karma is probably a problematic card. She's not oppressive now (karma ezreal is insanely hard to play well and got turned down a notch with the latest nerfs) and there's no other deck that can properly use her now. She is extremely design-space limiting in regards to basically any spell, as the devs always need to be wary of it being cast multiple times in a single turn. Which is why I do think she will eventually be reworked.

Quote From Forgottenslayer

“well kill her before she levels and end the game”

tired that I push everything to end the game but Ionia is very adapt to easily stall.

 

I hate to pile on, but yes--you ought to close the game pre-enlightenment.  There's even a case to be made for just ignoring Karma: you know the opposing player is probably holding some protection, so spending your mana & cards just so they can counter means you're just losing value.  It's a similar argument to why it's usually better to ignore Fizz rather than hope you're opponent is bluffing.

What decks specifically are you using when you're having these troubles?  You mention drains and vengeance with implies either a Nautilus deep deck or Warmother's Control.  For the former, you want to just keep on piling up the pressure and usually ignore Karma unless it's advantageous (e.g., opponent is too low on mana, or you've got a Jaull Hunter or Sapling which even if they protect is probably a fair trade).  For the latter: I think you have to accept its an unfavorable matchup which you're going to lose most of the time.

Karma used to be overpowered at 5 mana, at 6 she's just okay, especially with the meditation nerf. The issue is that she's only good with very specific champion support, doubling ezreal procs for example, she can also double heimer turret generation.

I play Shadow Isle / Freljord

With Hec / Sej / Ashe I play against her like I play against Nat / Maokia which is put everything into finishing the game as fast as possible. I’ll try to start ignoring her and see what the results are however her giving the other player cards while she sits on the broad is also part of it if she didn’t grant cards for being alive then I wouldn’t think she needs to be changed at all. My deck is slow it stalls most aggro / burn decks until they run out of resources then I cut them apart 

I guess my hard counter is decks that are even slower. I didn’t notice the mediation nerf or even the Karma cost increase because I didn’t really notice her before. When my nexus got nuked from 20 to zero with burst spells in one turn Itook notice.

Quote From Forgottenslayer

I play Shadow Isle / Freljord

With Hec / Sej / Ashe I play against her like I play against Nat / Maokia which is put everything into finishing the game as fast as possible.

Seems like a mid range deck. 
To be fair, Ashe/Sej isn't very good against Karma, especially if you run too many spells.

Quote From Hellcopter

I agree that Karma sure is one of the best champions after Turn 10, as designed to be.

But is she better late game then Heimerdinger, Ezreal, Nautilus, Anivia or even Yasuo?
Answer is no.

Heimer is trash now.

Ezreal is good alone but nowhere near as good as Karma. But when combined with Karma, he becomes WAAAAAY overpowered! Which points more to Karma being the overpowered one rather than Ezreal.

Nautilus sucks. There is a reason people are trying to find a way to cut him out of deep decks. He costs to much. If he is killed or sent back to hand 9 times out of 10 you lose. He's super easy to play around.

Anivia is just ass on her own. You need multiple Anivias to finish out a match most of time.

Just dropping Nat can be very powerful. But like ESL all the hard removal and mana burners make it so I try not drop heavy monsters or if I do their summon ability is what I am banking on because it’s doubtful they’ll stay on the broad long enough to attack.

Maybe I’m biased against Nat my deck isn’t quick enough to smack him down before he gets to go deep

Quote From Forgottenslayer

I play Shadow Isle / Freljord

With Hec / Sej / Ashe I play against her like I play against Nat / Maokia which is put everything into finishing the game as fast as possible. I’ll try to start ignoring her and see what the results are however her giving the other player cards while she sits on the broad is also part of it if she didn’t grant cards for being alive then I wouldn’t think she needs to be changed at all. My deck is slow it stalls most aggro / burn decks until they run out of resources then I cut them apart 

I guess my hard counter is decks that are even slower. I didn’t notice the mediation nerf or even the Karma cost increase because I didn’t really notice her before. When my nexus got nuked from 20 to zero with burst spells in one turn Itook notice.

Honestly I'm not seeing much synergy at all between Hecarim/Ephemerals and Sej/Ashe/Frostbite.  If you like Frejlord, you might want to consider going to an allegiance deck more dedicated towards Frejlord with perhaps Noxus splash (Trifarian Assessor is super good with both champs).  Or alternatively: there are some "zombie Ashe" decks which focus more on control and look to finish with a big Ashe + The Harrowing finish.  Regardless: I'll try to advise for your existing archetype as-is. 

I'm guessing you want to abandon your control strategy and play more like a tempo deck--adding more and more stats to the board each turn, punishing the fact the Karma player is trying to stall.  You didn't explicitly say it, but I'm guessing you're facing mostly about Karma + Ezreal decks--these decks rely hard on using their burn spells to remove your midgame threats while simultaneously leveling their Ezreal.  This makes it extremely valuable when you can counter with protection of your own--namely Elixir of Iron and Fury of the North.  Also always keep in the back of your mind that those decks will always run 3x Thermogenic Beam and to play it for maximum effect, so try to deny them good targets by either waiting until they don't have enough mana to target your significant threats or they need to spend more mana then they want.

The good news is that these decks don't usually run Deny, so if you can get a Hecarim in your rez pool and then Harrowing that is very likely GG.

Good luck!

I don't know the game well enough to comment on balance, but I do have to say that the Karma decks I've encountered are so non-interactive that they're not fun to play against. EZ/Karma seems especially egregious in this regard, as they don't usually even develop a board presence; they just nuke your stuff and typically hit the board leveled-up without any opportunity to fight against them being flipped. 

It's hardly unbeatable, but it feels like two people playing solitaire as you race against each others' life points and dismiss most of what makes the game fun. 

I throw Hec as a pusher he attacks with 9 damage between him and his spawns and when he gets rekindled or rezed for 3 spell mana he can be oppressive I also have 2 nethergades that can make him pump 11 damage on turn 6 which has won me games against deep and karma. 

I don’t read guides or follow tier lists or copy the best prebuilt decks I consider myself very casual. A major part of the fun for me is if I can think of effective deck my own mind. I was just wondering if others are finding karma as troublesome as I am. It is interesting to see other people’s take on it and I am picking up some suggestions.

For record not knocking guides or tier list it just isn’t the way I choose to play because the most important thing to me at this stage in my life is “ am I having fun while playing”. Getting nuked by karma / ez combo in one turn is no fun

I like Hecarim aggro decks too, but I only splash freljord for They Who Endure to break stalemates.  I try and get 3-4 sharks out early by copying them with fading memories and making em cheaper with Oblivious Islander. Then I just throw out 2/2 or 1/1 tokens each attack round and block attacks with Darkwater Scourge.  If the game is slower I get Kalista out and Soul Shepards and just have kalista clone Darkwater Scourges for free heals till I can Hecarim or They Who Endure and thats usually a win. I also keep Rekindlers and Ruinations in case bad stuff happens to my champs or they build too big a board. I normally KO opponents by turn 5-6 and usually they just concede if I get 3+ sharks,so even faster!

Hey Karma I found something for you and it’s making me lawl hard. Most importantly I’m having fun dealing out 17 damage a round by turn