New Shaman Spell - Corrupt the Waters

Submitted 4 years, 8 months ago by

A new Legendary Shaman Spell, Corrupt the Waters, has been revealed!

Corrupt the Waters Card ImageHeart of Vir'naal Card Image

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  • Arthas's Avatar
    Robot Black Lotus 1265 5754 Posts Joined 03/10/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    A new Legendary Shaman Spell, Corrupt the Waters, has been revealed!

    Corrupt the Waters Card ImageHeart of Vir'naal Card Image

    Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!


    Learn more about Saviors of Uldum

    Head on over to our dedicated guide for Saviors of Uldum!

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    1
  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Senior Writer Serra Angel 1700 2761 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    It's fine, but...why be a Shaman card? You had Brann Bronzebeard as the Hunter hero; it was right there.

    1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    What does it do? Permanent passive Brann effect?

    -1
  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Senior Writer Serra Angel 1700 2761 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    What does it do? Permanent passive Brann effect?

    The Hero Power is a 2-mana "Your Battlecries trigger twice this turn." aura effect you have to activate.

    4
  • Tuscarora87's Avatar
    Face Collector 275 144 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    This can help activate Mecha'thun, but there are a lot of combo disruptions in the rotation; and how to draw fast as Shaman + get rid of your hand / board?

    0
  • Chimera's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 685 680 Posts Joined 10/22/2018
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I really like this. The rewards as  hero powers is way cooler than the previous quests, and i love battlecry synergy. I think people may to find a broken deck with this.

    Quote From AliRadicali

    What does it do? Permanent passive Brann effect?

    Sorry about that, added the hero power to the OP!

    2
  • duppie's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 320 240 Posts Joined 04/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    This has the potential to be really strong with the right cards but with what we currently have it seems kind of meh.  it's basically spirit of the shark but might be a bit more flexible to use.  Shaman doesn't actually have many good battlecries right now, and the ones they have don't actually have synergy with this.  There are some decent neutrals but nothing you can build around.

    I would assume they're going to give some battlecry support for this, and hopefully that comes with this expac.  The 2/3 that draws a card if you have a quest seems good for getting the quest done quick.  

    -3
  • PirateBoy's Avatar
    140 11 Posts Joined 06/05/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Seems like an interesting thing to put in Shaman, I think this would thrive most in some type of Midrange Shudderwock deck.  I don't know how much a Quest will be wanted in a class that already has a Hero Card, though.  Both the Quest and Hagatha the Witch are value-focused, and I think more players would opt for the passive spell gain over the increased battlecry value, but we'll see once all the cards are released.

    -1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Double battlecry is nuts with Swamp Queen Hagatha, the question is whether even more value is needed in control shaman and whether you can afford to slow down the deck even more to get it. My intuition says no, but if they print enough decent and cheap battlecries, then who knows?

     

    For the wild shudderwock combo deck it strikes me as a win-more card. Having 1 less cards in hand hurts and you autowin if you get the combo off in time, so you're probably better off with extra draws and control tools rather than the build-a-brann hero power.

    0
  • NightCrawler's Avatar
    Lava Coil 315 159 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    Double battlecry is nuts with Swamp Queen Hagatha

    Yeah, it's nuts until you realize you can only have one hero power at once LUL

    I don't know about this one.  Unlike the other two revealed, this one is very easy to finish (lackey generators are 2 procs) but the reward seems useless in the current meta.  What are you going to do?  Clear the path face for 4 like a rogue does?  You don't have the tempo tools to get in early chip damage like they do.  You don't have value oriented battlecries like they do

    Unless they print some insane battlecries, Hagatha is just better and unlike this quest is actually an important synergy with shudderwok

    -5
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    ^Swampqueen Hagatha, not the hero card, Hagatha the Witch.

    You can potentially get two drustvar horrors, each of which can cast their double spells twice. There are some spell combinations that can just autowin the game, like [token generator] + The Storm Bringer, and now you get two rolls for it, not to mention two rolls on the horror itself. If you can afford to pay 9 mana for a 5/5 then Swamp Queen + quest will probably win the game.

    2
  • chaosprism's Avatar
    Face Collector 340 83 Posts Joined 03/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Shaman is the battlecry specialist, brann is a battlecry guy from the original expansion. I'm the new version of brann will be hunter related, may or may not be battlecries this time.

    (double shudderwock is nuts also as proven when shudderwock first came out :)

    0
  • NightCrawler's Avatar
    Lava Coil 315 159 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^Swampqueen Hagatha, not the hero card, Hagatha the Witch.

    You can potentially get two drustvar horrors, each of which can cast their double spells twice. There are some spell combinations that can just autowin the game, like [token generator] + The Storm Bringer, and now you get two rolls for it, not to mention two rolls on the horror itself. If you can afford to pay 9 mana for a 5/5 then Swamp Queen + quest will probably win the game.

    Dude, Hagatha the 7 mana 5/5 is too slow to play in any competitive shaman right now, including control ones.  Make it cost +2 with the hero power and it's even worse

    What deck is going to let you pass a 9 mana turn?  Control warrior?  They can just brawl your storm bringer board while you draw bombs

    This is the equivalent of saying Tak Nozwhisker is broken with Academic Espionage.  You can spend your entire turn getting insane value but it doesn't really matter when even the slowest of opponents is going to punish your for it

    -1
  • Lightspoon's Avatar
    Merfolk 495 405 Posts Joined 04/01/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I'm a bit worried that this may limit design space in the future: battlecry is a solid mechanic spread everywhere and the chance to double it costantly may seriously put a limit on what will be printed both in the Shaman class and neutral pool.

    "For what profit is it to a man if he gains the world, and loses his own soul?"

    3
  • Kovachut's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 675 756 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    When I saw the quests for the first time, I thought about the drawback of not being able to run hero cards in your deck, because the new hero powers could replace or be replaced by the quest reward. Imho Heart of Vir'naal is very strong in various decks (Shudderwock TTK with Emperor, Jade, Elemental...), but it would be interesting to see some decks removing the all-powerful Hagatha the Witch and the ability to generate cards in favour for this card. This applies to all other classes in wild, that have busted hero cards (or in standard with Dr. Boom, Mad Genius in warrior's case).

    Btw

    Quote From Lightspoon

    I'm a bit worried that this may limit design space in the future: battlecry is a solid mechanic spread everywhere and the chance to double it costantly may seriously put a limit on what will we printed both in the Shaman class and neutral pool.

    I fully agree with Lightspoon. Having a constant Brann Bronzebeard effect for only 2 mana per turn is worrisome.

    0
  • Tetsuo's Avatar
    Magma Rager 840 638 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    That's a powerful reward for a quest, could be problematic in the future. At least you have to pay 2 mana to do it. 

    I don't get the flavor though. What does "corrupt the water" have to do with battlecries triggering twice? 

    0
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From NightCrawler
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^Swampqueen Hagatha, not the hero card, Hagatha the Witch.

    You can potentially get two drustvar horrors, each of which can cast their double spells twice. There are some spell combinations that can just autowin the game, like [token generator] + The Storm Bringer, and now you get two rolls for it, not to mention two rolls on the horror itself. If you can afford to pay 9 mana for a 5/5 then Swamp Queen + quest will probably win the game.

    Dude, Hagatha the 7 mana 5/5 is too slow to play in any competitive shaman right now, including control ones.  Make it cost +2 with the hero power and it's even worse

    What deck is going to let you pass a 9 mana turn?  Control warrior?  They can just brawl your storm bringer board while you draw bombs

    This is the equivalent of saying Tak Nozwhisker is broken with Academic Espionage.  You can spend your entire turn getting insane value but it doesn't really matter when even the slowest of opponents is going to punish your for it

    In a world where Elysiana still sees play I don't think this argument holds too much water. Obviously this would only ever come into play against control and slow combo decks, but in those cases spending nine mana to develop subpar stats and game-winning value is not inconceivable.

    Control shaman has excellent healing options, why would it lose to a couple of bombs? 

     

    And of course I did give a preface in my OP outlining how I thought this quest was too slow as-is without further support from OP battlecries.

    4
  • Lycaon's Avatar
    230 80 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

     Hero Power (double battlecry) Electra Stormsurge + Lava Burst = 20 HP

    -4
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar
    Refreshment Vendor 880 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Lackey Shaman incoming?

    The reward is damn slow, but let's not forget the strength of a HP is in its consistency.

    0
  • ilnosferatu's Avatar
    105 27 Posts Joined 04/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Lycaon

     Hero Power (double battlecry) Electra Stormsurge + Lava Burst = 20 HP

    Nope, doesn't work. It'll still only cast Lava Burst twice.

    5
  • SirSmorcalot's Avatar
    115 34 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Questing explorer looks even better now, if that's possible.

    0
  • Alfi's Avatar
    Devoted Academic 1790 1375 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Why is playing battlecry cards corrupting the waters???

    -=alfi=-

    0
  • Almaniarra's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 950 1465 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Alfi

    Why is playing battlecry cards corrupting the waters???

    Hagatha corrupts the waters and creatures in the swamp (toads, murlocs, etc.) shout their battlecry louder. hahhah

    Unpopular Opinion Incarnate

    2
  • Chimera's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 685 680 Posts Joined 10/22/2018
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    This is why Hagatha is banned from public pools.

    8
  • ThatFinn's Avatar
    115 32 Posts Joined 07/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Back in un'goro I was so disappointed in the shaman quest as it was not good for typical midrange / control decks. 

    This the complete opposite and might be too good as others have mentioned. As primarily wild player stuff you can do with jades and this is crazy. Might make elementals good enough.

    But I think people tend to forget shamans card draw problems which means you might not have enough battlecries to take advantage of. Lackeys + Cult master sounds good tho.

    Think you can run this and hero hagatha too. In the end hagatha gives you alot of crap too so you are not in hurry to play it with this new better hero power. Often for me I feel like Hagatha is detrimental as I have the board and this hero power is good enough that you can wait for better spot to play hagatha.

    0
  • Pezman's Avatar
    Staff Writer 2235 2219 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Interesting that all 3 revealed quests so far give hero powers that replicate past legendary minions (Brann, Fandral, Wilfred). I wonder if the other 6 quests will too? It's a neat mechanic, as it is always so hard to get good value from cards like that (I don't recall Wilfred seeing much play) because you would only ever get it on board for one turn, generally. Hero powers are more sticky. Perhaps new hero power disruption? Something like Mindbreaker or Saboteur? Could they possibly print a card that actually changes your opponent's hero power? Like Sideshow Spelleater in reverse?

    "Be excellent to each other." -Bill and Ted

    2
  • Starscream's Avatar
    180 99 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    In Standard, I am not convinced this quest is that great based on the cards we currently have.

    You have to spend 2 mana to activate this each turn. Let's say it's turn 7.  You have 5 mana left to activate a battlecry twice. Which one? What's so good right now you'd really get a benefit from not playing a 7 cost card?

    Electra Stormsurge, because a spell would activate 4 times? Ok, if that works (?)

    Otherwise I don't see it. Also, a minion with a battlecry that overloads you then overload you twice? Presumably. In which case this has a high cost associated with it.

    I'm happy to be proven wrong. I just don't really see it right now. Of course, I appreciate many more cards have yet to be revealed.

    0
  • Livesage's Avatar
    90 17 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    The name and art of the card doesn't seem to have any obvious connection to the effect?

    0
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    This seems ridiculously easy to proc and incredibly powerful afterwards with more and more lackey support. Two sludge slurpers almost get you to quest complete. Add novice and questing and boom.

     

    People are willing to pay 4 mana for spirit of the shark for largely the same effect

    0
  • Starscream's Avatar
    180 99 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From RandomGuy

    This seems ridiculously easy to proc and incredibly powerful afterwards with more and more lackey support. Two sludge slurpers almost get you to quest complete. Add novice and questing and boom.

     

    People are willing to pay 4 mana for spirit of the shark for largely the same effect

    Yes, but Spirit of the Shark works without any further mana cost as long as it lives.

    This requires you to spend 2 mana each turn.

    0
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Starscream
    Quote From RandomGuy

    This seems ridiculously easy to proc and incredibly powerful afterwards with more and more lackey support. Two sludge slurpers almost get you to quest complete. Add novice and questing and boom.

     

    People are willing to pay 4 mana for spirit of the shark for largely the same effect

    Yes, but Spirit of the Shark works without any further mana cost as long as it lives.

    This requires you to spend 2 mana each turn.

    Obviously.But shark often isn’t living beyond 1 turn anyway. If you have to use the hero power twice you’ve paid the same cost as shark for approximately the same number of procs

    1
  • Sykomyke's Avatar
    Grand Crusader 780 985 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From NightCrawler
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^Swampqueen Hagatha, not the hero card, Hagatha the Witch.

    You can potentially get two drustvar horrors, each of which can cast their double spells twice. There are some spell combinations that can just autowin the game, like [token generator] + The Storm Bringer, and now you get two rolls for it, not to mention two rolls on the horror itself. If you can afford to pay 9 mana for a 5/5 then Swamp Queen + quest will probably win the game.

    Dude, Hagatha the 7 mana 5/5 is too slow to play in any competitive shaman right now, including control ones.  Make it cost +2 with the hero power and it's even worse

    What deck is going to let you pass a 9 mana turn?  Control warrior?  They can just brawl your storm bringer board while you draw bombs

    This is the equivalent of saying Tak Nozwhisker is broken with Academic Espionage.  You can spend your entire turn getting insane value but it doesn't really matter when even the slowest of opponents is going to punish your for it

    Beyond the murloc aggro decks.  There's plenty of people playing Muckmorpher Shaman as well as ValueWock Shaman.  Using personal *anecdotal* evidence of your own experiences does not lend any credence to your theory.  And you're right, not many are using Taz+Espionage.  Most are using Taz+Togwaggles Scheme because it's a far easier combo to pull off.

    Using specific scenarios "mech warriors will just brawl your board" is such a pessimistic, and frankly uninspired comment: it makes me think that you have some personal vendetta against theorycrafting with new cards, or this hero power specifically.

    But sure,  a hero power based off of Brann Bronzebeard; probably one of the strongest neutral legendaries from LoE set (aside from Reno) and you seem to think that the hero power is going to suck.  Mmmkay then.  If you believe that, I've got a statue to sell you in Booty Bay.

    <Your Ad Here>

    1
  • StrangerX9's Avatar
    130 30 Posts Joined 06/21/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    This makes Shudderwock Shaman a scary deck!  You wouldn't run Hagatha the Witch in Shudderwock now, because it would over write your reward hero power.  Now we just need a way to lower the cost of Shudderwock, like [Hearthstone Card (Farsight) Not Found]

    0
  • ElSabidon's Avatar
    Salty Dog 1030 685 Posts Joined 06/07/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    The quest itself is quite simple to complete. The reward is really good and insanely broken in wild. 

    However, here's where this card becomes tricky: it conflicts with Hagatha the Witch, a card used for value in both control and Murloc lists. Now, in the control Shaman, there are other factors to consider if you want to add this card, such as the Battlecries in your deck and their power being doubled. Not only that, you do lose your most reliable AoE.

    On Murloc Shaman, however, this card seems more powerful: a lot of times, in the later stages of the game, you can dump 2 mana to summon extra 1/1s or give extra Health to your minions. Not only that, even when considering that you're going to lose your turn 1 setting this up as a more aggresive deck, Sludge Slurper + Lackey on turn 2 can reliably get the board back and this card can provide value like Hagatha the Witch without the risk of your board getting wiped.

    In essence, this card can simply replace Hagatha in more aggressive lists, while Hagatha continues to provide value for control. You can even have both, after all, as you can mulligan the quest. Then, you generate some minions with the likes of Menacing Nimbus, transform into Hagatha to get some spells and only then finish the quest for a battlecry filled push that doesn't rely on Shudderwock, essentially granting you two big swing turns instead of one. This, however, is insanely greedy and will probably only work in a competitive environment if control decks are overpowering the meta.

    Rating cards on coolness factor rather than predicting power because I like screwing up rating averages (and because I suck at predicting real power levels, but we'll ignore that LUL)
    Wins per class (2/6/22): DH-197; Druid-996Hunter-91«60; Mage-1056; Paladin-1126; Priest-746; Rogue-961; Shaman-1095; Warlock-871; Warrior-906

    0
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar
    1095 819 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From NightCrawler
    Dude, Hagatha the 7 mana 5/5 is too slow to play in any competitive shaman right now, including control ones.  Make it cost +2 with the hero power and it's even worse.
    What deck is going to let you pass a 9 mana turn?  Control warrior?  They can just brawl your storm bringer board while you draw bombs

    Bloody murloc shaman runs both Hagathas right now. How is this particular Hagatha too slow again? 

     

    Also, to the people who say that this quest is somehow broken in wild, please do elaborate if you don't mind. Shudderwock shaman is meme-tier, as is any other battlecry related shaman deck. Most of them get absolutely slaughtered by aggro and midrange decks. How is this quest going to solve that?

    1
  • OmarComing's Avatar
    790 530 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    "Steal Your Lunch Money" Shaman incoming:

    Heart of Vir'naal + Hecklebot + Mind Control Tech

    1
  • ThatFinn's Avatar
    115 32 Posts Joined 07/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From iWatchUSleep 

     Also, to the people who say that this quest is somehow broken in wild, please do elaborate if you don't mind. Shudderwock shaman is meme-tier, as is any other battlecry related shaman deck. Most of them get absolutely slaughtered by aggro and midrange decks. How is this quest going to solve that?

    For example any jade based control deck gets enormous boost with this card. The ability to pump out 2 jades per card is really something that shouldnt be underestimated. This hero power gives you too much value for ppl to keep up, even priests with their current metric-shit-ton of wild clears cant AoE all my jades away. What happens when almost every of my jade cards require that AoE answer?

    Shaman Control decks can already deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well with healing rain + walking fountain + Devolve, Volcano and Scheme. The main problem tends to be big priest if you dont draw hexes and burn decks.

    This card solidifies other matchups while also boosting those 2 particular matchups as you can ramp up the jades and thus threat towards them. True the card doesnt work in those decks you described (necessarily), but there are alot of great battlecries that would love to have brann effect on demand.

    0
  • YJHS2000's Avatar
    Uther 315 119 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Not sure this enough support in standard now... we'll see. In wild, as others have said, this seems bonkers. Jade decks will be crazy with this. Also watch out for C'Thun decks. Most C'thun cards are battlecry, making it easy to fulfill the quest and then double bonuses after. Fencing Coach can be used to combo with C'thun the following turn. Also could could use Emperor Thaurissan to reduce cost of C'thun and Waterboy to pull it off, though a llittle harder. Shaman has way better control tools now than it did during Old Gods, so this could work.

    Communism is just a red herring

    -1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    ^ Even if you run every single jade card available to shaman you still only have 7 summon-a-jade battlecries, and you need to invest 5 battlecries into the quest before you get your reward. I don't think this quest will be very strong with jades for that reason, it seems like far too much setup for not enough payoff. 

    1
  • ThatFinn's Avatar
    115 32 Posts Joined 07/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^ Even if you run every single jade card available to shaman you still only have 7 summon-a-jade battlecries, and you need to invest 5 battlecries into the quest before you get your reward. I don't think this quest will be very strong with jades for that reason, it seems like far too much setup for not enough payoff. 

    Well there are tons of ways to gain more. For example rummaging kobold is 9 mana (+2 overload): Summon 1/3, 4x Jades and 2/3 weapon (if you swing the first one) for 1 card + hero power.

    Barista Lynchen, Spirit Echo, Fencing coach into next turn shudder, elysiana's cards, bouncers, elementary reaction / discover elementals, bankers, zola all work for the same purpose. Most of these are also BCs which benefit from the hp.

    The existence of sludge slurper already means that you have a good chance to trigger the quest without spending too many jade bcs on it. 

    Ofcourse the card could fail but I see alot of easy synergy with great value. Also as you are running jade spirits and probably walking fountains you could easily add in strong elemental BCs like Kalimos.

    0
  • ArngrimUndying's Avatar
    Draconically Dedicated 520 626 Posts Joined 06/11/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From NightCrawler
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^Swampqueen Hagatha, not the hero card, Hagatha the Witch.

    You can potentially get two drustvar horrors, each of which can cast their double spells twice. There are some spell combinations that can just autowin the game, like [token generator] + The Storm Bringer, and now you get two rolls for it, not to mention two rolls on the horror itself. If you can afford to pay 9 mana for a 5/5 then Swamp Queen + quest will probably win the game.

    Dude, Hagatha the 7 mana 5/5 is too slow to play in any competitive shaman right now, including control ones.  Make it cost +2 with the hero power and it's even worse

    What deck is going to let you pass a 9 mana turn?  Control warrior?  They can just brawl your storm bringer board while you draw bombs

    This is the equivalent of saying Tak Nozwhisker is broken with Academic Espionage.  You can spend your entire turn getting insane value but it doesn't really matter when even the slowest of opponents is going to punish your for it

    Irrespective of the discussion here but worth noting as someone who plays a lot of Burgle Rogue: every single time I've been able to pull off the vaunted turn 10 Tak + Prep + Espionage I have won - probably half the time from auto-concedes. I think some combos that, frankly, are almost instant-game-winners SHOULD BE risky/tough to pull off. Otherwise we have a return to pre-nerf Shudderwock Shaman where everyone is just playing Solitaire until their OTK combo hits and it's game over. 

    0
  • davidwizard's Avatar
    330 280 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    "Electra Stormsurge, because a spell would activate 4 times? Ok, if that works (?)"

    It doesn't work that way. If it read "Battlecry: your next spell this turn casts an extra time", then you could get to 3 times casting one spell. But as written, no matter how many times the battlecry procs, it'll only ever cast the next spell "twice."

    1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From ThatFinn
    Quote From AliRadicali

    ^ Even if you run every single jade card available to shaman you still only have 7 summon-a-jade battlecries, and you need to invest 5 battlecries into the quest before you get your reward. I don't think this quest will be very strong with jades for that reason, it seems like far too much setup for not enough payoff. 

    Well there are tons of ways to gain more. For example rummaging kobold is 9 mana (+2 overload): Summon 1/3, 4x Jades and 2/3 weapon (if you swing the first one) for 1 card + hero power.

    Barista Lynchen, Spirit Echo, Fencing coach into next turn shudder, elysiana's cards, bouncers, elementary reaction / discover elementals, bankers, zola all work for the same purpose. Most of these are also BCs which benefit from the hp.

    The existence of sludge slurper already means that you have a good chance to trigger the quest without spending too many jade bcs on it. 

    Ofcourse the card could fail but I see alot of easy synergy with great value. Also as you are running jade spirits and probably walking fountains you could easily add in strong elemental BCs like Kalimos.

    I haven't played the deck in wild but back when it was standard I recall the problem was rarely running out of value, it was surviving long enough to get value from all your jades that was the issue. Now that you have Shudderwock and Barista, it's even less likely you'll run out of jades, so I don't think the quest makes the cut. I don't disagree that the card has huge tempo and value potential late game, but the question is whether that's worth hampering your early game with -1 card in your mulligan. My intuition says you'd rather draw your cheap jades and removal more consistently

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  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar
    1095 819 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From ThatFinn

    For example any jade based control deck gets enormous boost with this card. The ability to pump out 2 jades per card is really something that shouldnt be underestimated. This hero power gives you too much value for ppl to keep up, even priests with their current metric-shit-ton of wild clears cant AoE all my jades away. What happens when almost every of my jade cards require that AoE answer?

    Shaman Control decks can already deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well with healing rain + walking fountain + Devolve, Volcano and Scheme. The main problem tends to be big priest if you dont draw hexes and burn decks.

    This card solidifies other matchups while also boosting those 2 particular matchups as you can ramp up the jades and thus threat towards them. True the card doesnt work in those decks you described (necessarily), but there are alot of great battlecries that would love to have brann effect on demand.

    Since the wild meta is far slower in development I'll use vS' latest meta report despite it being relatively old as reference: https://www.vicioussyndicate.com/wild-vs-data-reaper-report-17/

    Shudderwock shaman (the closest thing you'll get to jade shaman) loses against all aggro decks but two: Mech hunter, against which it is slightly favored and aggro paladin, which seems to be a 50/50 matchup. Only other noteworthy thing to mention is that its matchup against even shaman is also, ironically, even. 

    Other than that, the deck is unfavored against all aggro and midrange decks. So much for it being able to "deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well". As I stated in my previous post. More value isn't going to change its unfavorable matchup against these other aggro and midrange decks, at all.

    A single matchup being a problem shouldn't hamper a deck from being high tier, which isn't the case for combo/control shaman. Just look at jade druid and even warlock for example. Both have miserable matchups against big priest, but still perform quite well in today's wild meta.

    Lastly, control decks just aren't effective in the wild metagame. Unless they can pull some ridiculous anti-aggro stuff, like odd warrior's hero power and removal, jade druid's armor gain and Spreading Plague and big priest being the tumor that it is. Other than these three decks, not a single deck cares about jade value in the lategame. Because the only decks remaining are the ones that hope to finish you far earlier than said lategame, or OTK you once you manage to actually reach that lategame.

     

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  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I’ve built this deck with the subpar collection of cards we have right now and it looks legit.

    Who knows what the meta will look like, but you basically treat this quest as a hero card you control when it’s drawn. 

    And we will undoubtedly get multiple good battle cry cards over the next year  

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  • ThatFinn's Avatar
    115 32 Posts Joined 07/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Quess my deck isnt then "shuddrwock shaman" as it deals with those matchups well. Imo reports like that arent the best to picture slower shaman decks as shaman is so versatile and can be built a myriad of ways.

    You can run jades and shudderwock and call it a shudderwock shaman but you can have it be anti big priest with transform effects, aggressive midrange deck or anti aggro deck with ton of aoes and healing. All of those decks could be called jadeshudder decks with loatheb shudder finish but the matchups can change drastically depending on other cards.

    Atleast for me control shaman has worked well with beating the occasional paladins, hunters, zoo, token druid, aggressive rogue variants and murloc + even shamans. Burn and some mage OTKs decks have still been problem but you hardly can counter everything. 

    Ofc the winrate isnt 100 or near it, but having a good winrate vs aggro and big priest is quite a good standing point in current wild metagame. Can be wrong about the card but its insta golden craft for me as it gives me brann to use any turn I want and currently those turns come often.

    @aliradical that was a problem back in the day but I'd say its quite a bit easier with walking fountain, scheme, volcano, devolve and healing rain. The way I look at it is that once you get this hp every card you draw can be seen as double draw as you get double of their major effect. I'm currently running brann in my shaman list and it hurts me to not use it on so many bcs because I usually combo it with rummaging kobold for near insta win.

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  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar
    1095 819 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From ThatFinn

    Quess my deck isnt then "shuddrwock shaman" as it deals with those matchups well. Imo reports like that arent the best to picture slower shaman decks as shaman is so versatile and can be built a myriad of ways.

    You can run jades and shudderwock and call it a shudderwock shaman but you can have it be anti big priest with transform effects, aggressive midrange deck or anti aggro deck with ton of aoes and healing. All of those decks could be called jadeshudder decks with loatheb shudder finish but the matchups can change drastically depending on other cards.

    Atleast for me control shaman has worked well with beating the occasional paladins, hunters, zoo, token druid, aggressive rogue variants and murloc + even shamans. Burn and some mage OTKs decks have still been problem but you hardly can counter everything. 

    Ofc the winrate isnt 100 or near it, but having a good winrate vs aggro and big priest is quite a good standing point in current wild metagame. Can be wrong about the card but its insta golden craft for me as it gives me brann to use any turn I want and currently those turns come often.

    Except the Shudderwock shaman list in the meta report runs all the anti aggro cards that you mentioned: Healing Rain, Volcano, Hagatha's Scheme, Walking Fountain and Devolve. Additionally, it also runs Maelstrom Portal and the Corpsetaker package with Zilliax. So it runs the same anti aggro shell as you mentioned, if not heavier focused against aggro. Yet the results are as I mentioned in my previous post. Awful matchup against most (semi) aggresive decks. 

    Also, again, what do lategame jades do when there's barely any control decks out there. Why would you run them over an actual finisher like Shudderwock?

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  • ThatFinn's Avatar
    115 32 Posts Joined 07/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    The deck you mention is also a corpsetaker based build with almost 0 board presence. No wonder it might lose to aggro if it doesnt challenge the board with minions.

    -as a side point that deck hit legend #1, you undermine your own argument that the bc shamans can't work with bringing it up as it clearly has good winrate to get to #1-

    Last I checked late game jades are big, big jades have big attack and big attack means they have to be removed or they take big damage? Don't really understand your reasoning there. Having board presence is as good wincon as any. (And jadeshudders run loatheb just to have that similar single finisher)

    Jades are good because you can use them throughout the game to challenge the board and thus not lose to minion based aggrodecks as fast -> you get needed answers. With comboshudder decks the problem is not that your deck doesnt have the answer, it's having that answer in your hand when you need it instead of some other cards.

    But I quess we're not getting far here. In my opinion pumping 2 jades per card (or more) per turn is value and tempo that can't be matched by many decks. You're free to disagree and rely on stats (as you said from 2 months ago so they might be dated). I'll enjoy this card and the benefits it brings =)

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  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar
    1095 819 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    It challenges the board with even more AoE and said [Hearthstone Card (corpsetakers) Not Found]. Which seems to be the most effective manner, seeing how that person got #1 legend as you said.

    How did I undermine anything though? viciousSyndicate clearly linked that #1 legend deck and still placed it in tier 4. Why is that, you think? 

    I have asked you multiple times when you ever get to lategame, because there's about three decks that actually care about getting to lategame (see my previous posts). I thought that question wasn't too difficult...

     

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  • ThatFinn's Avatar
    115 32 Posts Joined 07/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I admit I missed the last part of the earlier post about the decks that go to late game. Still it happens ofter than just with big priest, druid and even lock. Eg warrior, mechathun priest & lock, even and murloc shaman all currently bring me to late game too. 

    I don't look too much at tierlists so I cant say for sure but if it can be brought to #1 legend I'd wager the problem is more at other players than the deck itself. Also the list mentions it as new variant with hope so maybe there's not enough data?

    Still jades are only a part of the cards that get benefit from this card, be it draws, card generation, heals or AoEs. I think you value the midgame jades bit little. Even if lategame jades dont get value vs aggro/midrange the midgame tempo boosts this card gives should. Ability to suddenly get 1 or 2 extra jades is quite big when trying to stabilize. Especially easier vs midrange decks that don't kill you as fast. 

    Abiity to ramp up tempo is also great vs those combo decks as they might have to spend resources where they dont want to.

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  • FieselFitz's Avatar
    Prince Charming 1105 1355 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Seems pretty decent for now, and has lots of potential to be very strong!

    Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!

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