Looking for help - extremely stuck at 6k

I had relatively smooth sailing to 6k, using a standard strategy and trying to hit power turns, but recently, most of my comps end up being garbage menagerie and I'm consistently hitting bottom 4, usually 6th and 7th.  I need some sort of basic guide, or someone to coach/spectate me.  I don't know what I'm doing wrong.  I'm not looking for hero specific guides, more or less just general strategy.  I feel pretty lost on every turn. 

Any help, tips, guides, suggestions, etc would be greatly appreciated.  Please don't downvote this simply because of who is posting - this is not a salt thread, this is a desperation thread.

Watch Kripparian BG youtube videos

Quote From Alfi

Watch Kripparian BG youtube videos

Those are largely highlights of interesting and lucky games. 

For instance, how do I stop doing this?  I've taken the best stats every turn and end up going garbage menagerie.  It's turn 10 and I'm desperately rolling for ANY triple. 

BG is unfortunately, more luck based than skill. If there's any skill involved, its usually either positioning, or the ability to tell when its time to start switching strats (like transitioning from menagerie to murlocs, pirates etc.). Just be aware that there's a limit to the minions available, so if there's like some person going murlocs hard I usually start avoiding that tribe until I see him die. That's really the extend, in my opinion, of your control over the game.

There is no cunning strats. If RNG starts giving you murlocs then you play murlocs. If it shits on you then I guess you lose. Its not worth it to try and break this game. Most of the time the best way to end up in top 4 is to not get into a coma midgame and hold on tight to your lucky monkey paw or rabbits foot.

I'm sorry to hear that Kaladin. I'm by no means an expert on BG's but maybe the following advice can help you:

- In the first ~5 turns there is very little decision making as there are very few opportunities to reroll. My advice for these turns is just to buy the highest quality minions (usually those that have the most stats) and try to go for doubles if they are offered to you, since tripling low tavern tier minions is relatively easy. Going to a higher tavern tier before playing a tripled minion is generally also a good idea because you can get some high quality minions or build enablers from higher tiers.

- Looking at your screenshot, I'd say you're holding on too much to minions that are good standalones in earlier turns but fall off quickly if they don't complement your build. Spawn of N'zoth is one of the best tavern 2 cards, but becomes less powerful as the game goes on especially if you don't triple it or if you don't have baron rivendare. The same can be said for security rover. It's really good relatively early in the game since it can usually survive 1 or 2 hits, but quickly falls off if you don't buff it or if you're not playing a mech build. If you feel like your build is starting to become weak then you should start buying key minions that are necessary for other builds so that you can transition into one of those.

If you're still struggling I would actually follow Alfi's advice and watch a youtuber or streamer like Kripp and look at how they play. Sure a lot of Kripp's videos are highlights of crazy games but those can still be useful. When watching a youtuber or streamer try to think what you would do in their situation and look at what they do differently and maybe you'll discover weaknesses in your playstyle.

Quote From dapperdog

BG is unfortunately, more luck based than skill. If there's any skill involved, its usually either positioning, or the ability to tell when its time to start switching strats (like transitioning from menagerie to murlocs, pirates etc.). Just be aware that there's a limit to the minions available, so if there's like some person going murlocs hard I usually start avoiding that tribe until I see him die. That's really the extend, in my opinion, of your control over the game.

There is no cunning strats. If RNG starts giving you murlocs then you play murlocs. If it shits on you then I guess you lose. Its not worth it to try and break this game. Most of the time the best way to end up in top 4 is to not get into a coma midgame and hold on tight to your lucky monkey paw or rabbits foot.

There is much more strategy to BGs than just positioning and knowing when to transition to other builds. This includes knowing when it's a good time to tavern up, knowing which minions to look for and when, knowing which minions you should replace, and knowing which minions should get targeted buffs or get taunt. Some of these may seem easy but the answers are really not as obvious as you might think.

Quote From GerritDeMan

 

- Looking at your screenshot, I'd say you're holding on too much to minions that are good standalones in earlier turns but fall off quickly if they don't complement your build. Spawn of N'zoth is one of the best tavern 2 cards, but becomes less powerful as the game goes on especially if you don't triple it or if you don't have baron rivendare. The same can be said for security rover. It's really good relatively early in the game since it can usually survive 1 or 2 hits, but quickly falls off if you don't buff it or if you're not playing a mech build. If you feel like your build is starting to become weak then you should start buying key minions that are necessary for other builds so that you can transition into one of those.

 

In that screenshot if I recall correctly, I bought the Security Rover because it was the best thing offered, and then kept it because I failed to find anything better, both stats-wise and in terms of going towards a legit comp.  This is normally how I end up with garbage menageries - I continue to try and find the best stats, and don't know when to stop in lieu of a) comp, b) taking a double in order to triple into a build-around even if the double sucks.

Well one good tip I would give is to set achievable goals for yourself. I started stagnating at the 8-9k mmr range and I realised its because I would have some big variances in my play. Sometimes I would have good winstreaks and gain like 200 mmr in a single seating, and then I would lose like 500 mmr because I was seriously on tilt.

To counter this, I like to set mmr floors for myself, like maybe 150 mmr below? If I cross this barrier, then I stop and go cool off for a bit because it is seriously hard to play well when you are tilted. Also, RNG does in fact play a huge role in this mode, so you either stomp or get stomped most of the time, and bullshit losses/wins happen all the time. Its good to recognize this fact and try not to take the game so seriously. I found it really helps with your composure to just either laugh it off or vent it quickly somewhere and move on.

I've been doing much better the last 5 to 10 games or so - I haven't changed anything about my play, so I'm not sure if I was just running really poorly, or if other folks were running really hot, or if even at 6k, there were teams playing (I know it sounds kind of paranoid but honestly....how is it possible to run into fully complete comps by turn 9, that often?)

I somehow got third with this strange lineup. 

edit: nevermind, this game hinges on getting triples, which don't exist for me.

The general gameplan of Battlegrounds keeps changing as the metagame evolves.

Currently, minions like the ones you are showing here are only useful to keep you alive until you find a minion that defines a strategy, then build around that. You should not be wasting gold to buff them, unless the buff minion happens to be the best to fill your board.

If you happen to pick up a pair on your way to tier4, you can keep it in hope of getting a triple, as long as it is not too weak. However you should not be rolling for triples unless the rest of your comp is perfect and there's nothing you would replace.

Once you find a minion like Mama Bear, Lil' Rag, Kalecgos etc, you can start replacing those generic minions with ones that fit that one card. That is how you get to the late game consistently.

Quote From Bengalaas

The general gameplan of Battlegrounds keeps changing as the metagame evolves.

Currently, minions like the ones you are showing here are only useful to keep you alive until you find a minion that defines a strategy, then build around that. You should not be wasting gold to buff them, unless the buff minion happens to be the best to fill your board.

If you happen to pick up a pair on your way to tier4, you can keep it in hope of getting a triple, as long as it is not too weak. However you should not be rolling for triples unless the rest of your comp is perfect and there's nothing you would replace.

Once you find a minion like Mama Bear, Lil' Rag, Kalecgos etc, you can start replacing those generic minions with ones that fit that one card. That is how you get to the late game consistently.

this was posted well before the patch.  i am aware of general strategy, but the game seems to lean more and more towards highrolling. 

Quote From kaladin

Quote From Bengalaas

...

this was posted well before the patch.  i am aware of general strategy, but the game seems to lean more and more towards highrolling. 

Considering the Elementals didn't bring something new, but rather more of the same, I'd say the metagame is at the same spot ever since the removal of the Cannon.

It is a highroll game, but you have to set yourself up for the highroll.

There are two basic ways to go.

If you happen to have a strong early game with a definite direction, then you either level to where your defining cards are (usually 5*) or look for them off of triples 

If your comp doesn't have direction, you look for ANY centerpiece and slowly transition over to that. (Hasty transitions are an easy way to die in one turn, with exceptions).

The best way to stay stuck is to blame it all on luck.

Quote From Bengalaas

Quote From kaladin

Quote From Bengalaas

...

this was posted well before the patch.  i am aware of general strategy, but the game seems to lean more and more towards highrolling. 

Considering the Elementals didn't bring something new, but rather more of the same, I'd say the metagame is at the same spot ever since the removal of the Cannon.

It is a highroll game, but you have to set yourself up for the highroll.

There are two basic ways to go.

If you happen to have a strong early game with a definite direction, then you either level to where your defining cards are (usually 5*) or look for them off of triples 

If your comp doesn't have direction, you look for ANY centerpiece and slowly transition over to that. (Hasty transitions are an easy way to die in one turn, with exceptions).

The best way to stay stuck is to blame it all on luck.

"elementals didnt bring anything new" are we even playing the same game??  elementals scale harder than any other tribe - you'd better have a damned good reason for not going elementals. 

The old strat used to be go to 4 as mechs, 5 as beasts/murlocs, and 6 if anything else.  now that elementals are here, those comps are left in the dust and the strat is get to 5 asap and hope to highroll.

you first need to get lucky and get a good hero.  you then need to get lucky and get elementals. lastly, you need to get lucky and hope you're not queuing against a team.  prove me wrong.

Quote From kaladin

Quote From Bengalaas

...

"elementals didnt bring anything new" are we even playing the same game??  elementals scale harder than any other tribe - you'd better have a damned good reason for not going elementals. 

 

The old strat used to be go to 4 as mechs, 5 as beasts/murlocs, and 6 if anything else.  now that elementals are here, those comps are left in the dust and the strat is get to 5 asap and hope to highroll.

 

you first need to get lucky and get a good hero.  you then need to get lucky and get elementals. lastly, you need to get lucky and hope you're not queuing against a team.  prove me wrong.

First of all, Mech have been dead for months. It's a non-strat that you can only do as a desperation move, or a temporary step to something else (just like Juggler demons).

Now as for elementals, they scale slower than APM Pirates or Murlocs with Brann. Their main advantage is how easy they are to get going.

Also, they have a worse late game than Dragons and general Poison + Selfless comps.

They are just another version of the usual Brann Menagerie or APM Pirates or Kalecgos Dragons.

As for luck. I guess it can be a big factor for someone without a pass, but if you can pick between 4 heroes, there are so few that are actually bad or broken that it's usually not important. It can also matter if you prefer a certain style and can't work with a lot of heroes, but that's something players have to work on.

There is luck involved in any one run, like starting with or without a token, getting a good shop at 5 and 6 gold, getting s triple and a good discover etc. But not so much that it is a defining factor in the long run.

pre-patch i would agree with you that skill plays a larger factor.  now, when its possible to go out in last place from a solid position as early as turn 8 or 9, i completely disagree.

what should i be doing in the middle game?  i think that's where i lose games the most.  i dont know what to sell, what im looking for, what to buy for doubles, what doubles to hold on to, when to transition my comp, etc.