Lack of control deck options?

Submitted 4 years, 8 months ago by

Hi peeps, I love playing control decks, and it's really disappointing there aren't nothing but Warrior to go around with. Shaman is very unreliable, but still the second best option. 

The bigger thing is, we now have aggro decks that are immune to fatigue or even mid-game pressure, thanks to cards such as Dire Frenzy. The latter is just nerve-wrecking, especially in the current meta where Hunter has viable discover cards & Zul'jin to repeat playing the buffed 1-cost lifesteal minions to no end. Such a weird design choice/flaw.

I'm happy Blizzard has been bringing up class identity, but what I'd like to see more is looking after diversity in deck types. I personally see no difference in playing against or with any of the tier 1 aggro decks (broadly speaking), so I've simply played less and less of the game recently.

I gave up ladder climb a long time ago, ever since I realized it simply means spending hours playing a tier 1 deck and the reward is puny: I've put money in the game so 400 dust is not enough of an incentive to me to undergo the mindless grind. But even finding the game enjoyable is pretty hard if you don't like top 3 decks.

Have any of you enjoyed any control or combo decks in Standard lately? I do like playing Shaman (with various Hagatha+Elysiana+Shudder builds), but the fact that Hunter is so popular right now just makes it a harrowing experience most of the times. If you're about to say "go Wild", I wanna add I sometimes dip over to Wild but personally I don't enjoy going back to all the poison we just got rid of in Standard (odd aggro decks etc).

Nomi Priest is pretty fun too, I might get seriously into that. But Control Warrior feels so played out at this point, as the matches are way too similar due to the ultra-dominant role of Dr. Boom hero.

  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Hi peeps, I love playing control decks, and it's really disappointing there aren't nothing but Warrior to go around with. Shaman is very unreliable, but still the second best option. 

    The bigger thing is, we now have aggro decks that are immune to fatigue or even mid-game pressure, thanks to cards such as Dire Frenzy. The latter is just nerve-wrecking, especially in the current meta where Hunter has viable discover cards & Zul'jin to repeat playing the buffed 1-cost lifesteal minions to no end. Such a weird design choice/flaw.

    I'm happy Blizzard has been bringing up class identity, but what I'd like to see more is looking after diversity in deck types. I personally see no difference in playing against or with any of the tier 1 aggro decks (broadly speaking), so I've simply played less and less of the game recently.

    I gave up ladder climb a long time ago, ever since I realized it simply means spending hours playing a tier 1 deck and the reward is puny: I've put money in the game so 400 dust is not enough of an incentive to me to undergo the mindless grind. But even finding the game enjoyable is pretty hard if you don't like top 3 decks.

    Have any of you enjoyed any control or combo decks in Standard lately? I do like playing Shaman (with various Hagatha+Elysiana+Shudder builds), but the fact that Hunter is so popular right now just makes it a harrowing experience most of the times. If you're about to say "go Wild", I wanna add I sometimes dip over to Wild but personally I don't enjoy going back to all the poison we just got rid of in Standard (odd aggro decks etc).

    Nomi Priest is pretty fun too, I might get seriously into that. But Control Warrior feels so played out at this point, as the matches are way too similar due to the ultra-dominant role of Dr. Boom hero.

    0
  • tony's Avatar
    Banned 175 130 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Unless you're willing to get creative and experimental, right now the control decks available are the ones that are available. You could experiment. I think Shaman is the best candidate for control experimentation right now.

    I've found Nomi Priest to be kind of dull. I'm like, "Look at me! I can draw cards and clear the board!" It's almost like Nomi Rogue, which is like, "Look at me! I can take out your minions, slap you in the face, draw all my cards in one turn, and slap out a Chef Nomi!"

    0
  • Wingdude22's Avatar
    105 23 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I also made it to Legend with a Control Paladin. 

    I went with one Prelate , one mechanoegg one mechanicalwhelpling, and the Undertaker, to bring them all back over and over again. Unfortunately since the mech buffs , all Warriors run Silence, wich makes it very hard to beat Control Warrior, unless you can bait out their silence before you play the Undertaker 

    1
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From tony

    Unless you're willing to get creative and experimental, right now the control decks available are the ones that are available. You could experiment. I think Shaman is the best candidate for control experimentation right now.

    exactly, so if any of you have any particularly exciting ones, would love to take them for a ride. I don't care about win rates other than it would be nice not to lose every game.

    In general, I miss being able to counter tier 1 aggro decks with fun things.

    1
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Wingdude22

    I also made it to Legend with a Control Paladin. 

    I went with one Prelate , one mechanoegg one mechanicalwhelpling, and the Undertaker, to bring them all back over and over again. Unfortunately since the mech buffs , all Warriors run Silence, wich makes it very hard to beat Control Warrior, unless you can bait out their silence before you play the Undertaker 

    oh wow, seems i need to try it more seriously! thanks for bringin it up.

    1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    I too lament the lack of viable control decks.I suppose you could consider Dog's pocket galaxy mage a control/combo deck, but that's kind of stretching the definition.

    That said, calling beast hunter aggro is a total misnomer. The deck is very versatile and can adapt its playstyle to the opponent's deck. Against a slow deck w/o pressure you can take your time to frenzy timber wolves for an OTK and against aggressive decks you often win by outlasting the opponent's stuff with Unleash the Beasts and buffed scalehides.

    1
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    That said, calling beast hunter aggro is a total misnomer. The deck is very versatile and can adapt its playstyle to the opponent's deck. Against a slow deck w/o pressure you can take your time to frenzy timber wolves for an OTK and against aggressive decks you often win by outlasting the opponent's stuff with Unleash the Beasts and buffed scalehides.

    Definitions aside, this is what I was after, too: Beast Hunter is so ridiculously versatile that even fatigue won't get it, while it can still gun you down on early turns.

    0
  • Almaniarra's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 950 1468 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    We lost 3 expansions and got only 1 expansion for standard.

    It is a general issue for hearthstone's standard format. Variety always got hurt because of rotations. In First expansion of years, Some archetypes are always more dominant than others.

    We're reaching mid-year which adds more cards, that might be possible to add some variety to the classes which has been lacking variety of archetypes.

    At least, I want to believe in this.

    Unpopular Opinion Incarnate

    3
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Dollmaker
    Quote From AliRadicali

    That said, calling beast hunter aggro is a total misnomer. The deck is very versatile and can adapt its playstyle to the opponent's deck. Against a slow deck w/o pressure you can take your time to frenzy timber wolves for an OTK and against aggressive decks you often win by outlasting the opponent's stuff with Unleash the Beasts and buffed scalehides.

    Definitions aside, this is what I was after, too: Beast Hunter is so ridiculously versatile that even fatigue won't get it, while it can still gun you down on early turns.

    Sure it's versatile, but it's also quite unreliable unless you're a god at mulligan-ing master's call. Not to mention having a weak curve and relying heavily on 2-3 card comboes.

     

    You can argue that Dire Frenzy is a problem of design philosophy but IMO beast hunter is not remotely problematic in terms of power level in the meta.

    1
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Wingdude22

    I also made it to Legend with a Control Paladin. 

    I went with one Prelate , one mechanoegg one mechanicalwhelpling, and the Undertaker, to bring them all back over and over again. Unfortunately since the mech buffs , all Warriors run Silence, wich makes it very hard to beat Control Warrior, unless you can bait out their silence before you play the Undertaker 

    Could I get a deck code for this, please? I picked up a more heal-oriented, no undatakah version today. Ironically, first game: opponent plays 3 dire frenzies + zul'jin haha.  Of course, not all matches are winnable, but there are such punishing decks out there right now that it really bites a chunk from the spirit of trying out things. 

     

    0
  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar
    360 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Honestly lack of fresh control options is what happens when the designers of the game you play insist on saying that classes like rogue, paladin, druid, etc aren't supposed to have control strategies 90% of the time. It's pretty laughable really that they designed rogue to not be a control class when in WoW rogue is the epitome of control in pvp with their various CC toolkits and stunlocks to lock healers out of the game, but hey what do I know?

    0
  • tony's Avatar
    Banned 175 130 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Dollmaker
    Quote From tony

    Unless you're willing to get creative and experimental, right now the control decks available are the ones that are available. You could experiment. I think Shaman is the best candidate for control experimentation right now.

    exactly, so if any of you have any particularly exciting ones, would love to take them for a ride. I don't care about win rates other than it would be nice not to lose every game.

    In general, I miss being able to counter tier 1 aggro decks with fun things.

    Right, so you're seeking the net deck that hasn't been posted on the net and you're looking for somebody to do the work for you. This is the stage of the game, in the post rotation times, when all you can do is rely on your own abilities to construct decks to deal with your little pocket meta crap, whether in casual or ranked. It's the time of the tech cards. Nothing more to do. 

    0
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Dollmaker
    Quote From tony

    Unless you're willing to get creative and experimental, right now the control decks available are the ones that are available. You could experiment. I think Shaman is the best candidate for control experimentation right now.

    exactly, so if any of you have any particularly exciting ones, would love to take them for a ride. I don't care about win rates other than it would be nice not to lose every game.

    In general, I miss being able to counter tier 1 aggro decks with fun things.

    I have a fun kinda control deck with mage that has a lot of big minions and tries to outvalue late game with galaxy spell. Also runs star aligners for fun and mountain giants ofc and conjurers calling. To ruin aggro decks I run some aoe like blast wave. Its really fun when it works and it can utterly destroy those control warriors. It struggles against aggro of course. Also with luna draw engine, and when she starts going off and can pull in all your one mana dudes, and then at the same time trigger the star aligner combo it can be really funny. Has decent win rate overall, I think almost 50%.

    I have had some crazy come backs using the star aligners combo, for instance clearing two nomi priest boards in a row :) or blowing up those mage mountain giant walls.

    And its flexible, you can remove some big dudes and tech in more removal or early game minions or another win condition with Antonidas/Malygos/Alexstraza for instance.

    0
  • MrTren's Avatar
    205 47 Posts Joined 06/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Blizzard needs to nerf mana cheating warlock and priest decks, and nerfing hyper agro decks.

    -2
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From MrTren

    Blizzard needs to nerf mana cheating warlock and priest decks, and nerfing hyper agro decks.

    Well, all decks try to cheat somewhere, this is called "using synergy". And some synergy is more serious than other and then you want to call it cheating :).

    1
  • drfelip's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 365 289 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Zwane

    I have a fun kinda control deck with mage that has a lot of big minions and tries to outvalue late game with galaxy spell. Also runs star aligners for fun and mountain giants ofc and conjurers calling. To ruin aggro decks I run some aoe like blast wave. Its really fun when it works and it can utterly destroy those control warriors. It struggles against aggro of course. Also with luna draw engine, and when she starts going off and can pull in all your one mana dudes, and then at the same time trigger the star aligner combo it can be really funny. Has decent win rate overall, I think almost 50%.

    I call "decent" a 52% at least, if you can't get at least a tiny bit above 50% the game is frustrating to play.

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    0
  • Murlorc's Avatar
    50 5 Posts Joined 07/08/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Hi guys,

    Personally, this is the deck ive played the most this set :

    https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/2928-control-hunt-beating-those-silly-warriors

    This is my current version but im often swaping techs cards depending of what i face the most (obviously) ^^

    It's honestly really fun and aiming to beat control warriors playing their own game plan :P And i always tried to make control hunt work

    You should give it a try if you love to play slow control decks

    Note that while it was quite effective pre buff patch, ive not played much since this patch outside of questing. So i'm not sure if its still that effective. But i'm still having tons of fun playing it.

     

    Btw im usually playin rk 1-5

    Plus if youre lookin to play differents control decks you could also give warlock a try. They got some fun stuff playin omega agent/barista  :)

    0
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    Maybe they should print a 1-1 card like "If in your hand with 6 or more mana, destroys your deck. Battlecry: When played with less than 5 mana and was not in your starting hand, you instantly win the game." For all those aggro players who want a fast game. 

    -1
  • MrTren's Avatar
    205 47 Posts Joined 06/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From MrTren

    Blizzard needs to nerf mana cheating warlock and priest decks, and nerfing hyper agro decks.

    Well, all decks try to cheat somewhere, this is called "using synergy". And some synergy is more serious than other and then you want to call it cheating :).

    Turn 4 Barnes into Y'shaarj or a turn 4 Voidcaller into Voidlord/Mal'Ganis is toxic and mana cheating -but if you don't want to call that mana cheating than be my guest.

     

    1
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From MrTren
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From MrTren

    Blizzard needs to nerf mana cheating warlock and priest decks, and nerfing hyper agro decks.

    Well, all decks try to cheat somewhere, this is called "using synergy". And some synergy is more serious than other and then you want to call it cheating :).

    Turn 4 Barnes into Y'shaarj or a turn 4 Voidcaller into Voidlord/Mal'Ganis is toxic and mana cheating -but if you don't want to call that mana cheating than be my guest.

     

    I am only talking about standard. In Wild all bets are off -- that's why it's called wild.

     

    0
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From drfelip
    Quote From Zwane

    I have a fun kinda control deck with mage that has a lot of big minions and tries to outvalue late game with galaxy spell. Also runs star aligners for fun and mountain giants ofc and conjurers calling. To ruin aggro decks I run some aoe like blast wave. Its really fun when it works and it can utterly destroy those control warriors. It struggles against aggro of course. Also with luna draw engine, and when she starts going off and can pull in all your one mana dudes, and then at the same time trigger the star aligner combo it can be really funny. Has decent win rate overall, I think almost 50%.

    I call "decent" a 52% at least, if you can't get at least a tiny bit above 50% the game is frustrating to play.

    The deck compensates for it by giving more fun wins :) It can be boring to grind out your 52 avg win rate, for instance imagine a control warrior grind in which each game also takes 30 minutes on average, and you only armor up and remove minions and then win on fatigue. Not my idea of having fun.

    0
  • Pullanisu's Avatar
    Gul'dan 275 107 Posts Joined 06/18/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago

    What do you mean? Reno decks are basically control and there are 4 viable Reno decks rn

    Reno Jackson

    Kazakus

    My faves!

    You can beat me but I will still yeet your skeet

    0
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From tony
    Quote From Dollmaker
    Quote From tony

    Unless you're willing to get creative and experimental, right now the control decks available are the ones that are available. You could experiment. I think Shaman is the best candidate for control experimentation right now.

    exactly, so if any of you have any particularly exciting ones, would love to take them for a ride. I don't care about win rates other than it would be nice not to lose every game.

    In general, I miss being able to counter tier 1 aggro decks with fun things.

    Right, so you're seeking the net deck that hasn't been posted on the net and you're looking for somebody to do the work for you. This is the stage of the game, in the post rotation times, when all you can do is rely on your own abilities to construct decks to deal with your little pocket meta crap, whether in casual or ranked. It's the time of the tech cards. Nothing more to do. 

    You make it sound like a bad thing, why?

    0
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Murlorc

    Hi guys,

    Personally, this is the deck ive played the most this set :

    https://outof.cards/hearthstone/decks/2928-control-hunt-beating-those-silly-warriors

     

    haha, this is the stuff I was after, thanks for sharing! Looks v nice.

     

    0
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From AliRadicali
    Quote From Dollmaker
    Quote From AliRadicali

    That said, calling beast hunter aggro is a total misnomer. The deck is very versatile and can adapt its playstyle to the opponent's deck. Against a slow deck w/o pressure you can take your time to frenzy timber wolves for an OTK and against aggressive decks you often win by outlasting the opponent's stuff with Unleash the Beasts and buffed scalehides.

    Definitions aside, this is what I was after, too: Beast Hunter is so ridiculously versatile that even fatigue won't get it, while it can still gun you down on early turns.

    Sure it's versatile, but it's also quite unreliable unless you're a god at mulligan-ing master's call. Not to mention having a weak curve and relying heavily on 2-3 card comboes.

     

    You can argue that Dire Frenzy is a problem of design philosophy but IMO beast hunter is not remotely problematic in terms of power level in the meta.

    you're totally right on that, I think Iwas exaggerating there. Discussing design philosophy is also way more interesting to crying over a card or two, as I ended up doing.

    So to elaborate, I used to love playing hunter for the scarcity of resources (= draw & generation) you were given. It fits so well with the idea of a hunter lurking in the woods, building makeshift traps and making wise use of scant materials. So personally, I find the current state of hunter too abundant and sort of all over the place design-wise.

    0
  • Dollmaker's Avatar
    30 21 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Pullanisu

    What do you mean? Reno decks are basically control and there are 4 viable Reno decks rn

    yup, true, an I play renolock and reno mage from time to time, but I was talking about standard in my op.

    0
  • drfelip's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 365 289 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From drfelip
    Quote From Zwane

    I have a fun kinda control deck with mage that has a lot of big minions and tries to outvalue late game with galaxy spell. Also runs star aligners for fun and mountain giants ofc and conjurers calling. To ruin aggro decks I run some aoe like blast wave. Its really fun when it works and it can utterly destroy those control warriors. It struggles against aggro of course. Also with luna draw engine, and when she starts going off and can pull in all your one mana dudes, and then at the same time trigger the star aligner combo it can be really funny. Has decent win rate overall, I think almost 50%.

    I call "decent" a 52% at least, if you can't get at least a tiny bit above 50% the game is frustrating to play.

    The deck compensates for it by giving more fun wins :) It can be boring to grind out your 52 avg win rate, for instance imagine a control warrior grind in which each game also takes 30 minutes on average, and you only armor up and remove minions and then win on fatigue. Not my idea of having fun.

    Life is too short to play Control Warrior xD

    I prefer to play decks that are are out of the meta (or at least quite different versions from the popular decks) AND that have at least a 52% WR in my hands. Losing is not fun.

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    0
  • MrTren's Avatar
    205 47 Posts Joined 06/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From MrTren
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From MrTren

    Blizzard needs to nerf mana cheating warlock and priest decks, and nerfing hyper agro decks.

    Well, all decks try to cheat somewhere, this is called "using synergy". And some synergy is more serious than other and then you want to call it cheating :).

    Turn 4 Barnes into Y'shaarj or a turn 4 Voidcaller into Voidlord/Mal'Ganis is toxic and mana cheating -but if you don't want to call that mana cheating than be my guest.

     

    I am only talking about standard. In Wild all bets are off -- that's why it's called wild.

     

    Well you reacted to my post first and I was talking about Wild, and it's illogical for not balancing a format.

    1
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From MrTren
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From MrTren
    Quote From Zwane
    Quote From MrTren

    Blizzard needs to nerf mana cheating warlock and priest decks, and nerfing hyper agro decks.

    Well, all decks try to cheat somewhere, this is called "using synergy". And some synergy is more serious than other and then you want to call it cheating :).

    Turn 4 Barnes into Y'shaarj or a turn 4 Voidcaller into Voidlord/Mal'Ganis is toxic and mana cheating -but if you don't want to call that mana cheating than be my guest.

     

    I am only talking about standard. In Wild all bets are off -- that's why it's called wild.

     

    Well you reacted to my post first and I was talking about Wild, and it's illogical for not balancing a format.

    mmm well yeh ok :) have not played wild yet :) should try it someday

    0
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