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Future Balance

Submitted 2 years, 7 months ago by

Now that the meta has settled down which cards do feel need adjustment? Here is my personal list.

Sivir: I don't understand why they buffed Sivir in first place she was a fine champion before, now she level very quickly and when she do she can give a whole board spellshield, double attack or elusive which is game over against any deck expect plunder. Even without a board she can push for frighting amount of damage if you have Ghost and Flurry of Fists.

Merciless Hunter: This is a card that I like quit a bit because it forces all those back row champions into combat, still it has premium stat line, one the best keywords and the ability to grant any unit vulnerable, all of that definitely makes her overturned. I do hope that they can nerf her without making her unplayable because card that force combat makes the game more interactive. 

Emperor's Dais: After so many nerfs Azir/Irelia finally went from broken BS into... tier 1, that should tell how powerful the deck was. The deck is definitely manageable now. Still turn 2 dais into turn Azir followed by any blade dance unit will usually allow them to snow ball the game before the opposition could do anything about it, so dais going to 3 would disrupt that curve and allow for more counterplay.

Twin Disciplines: Many players were asking for this card to be buffed and as the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for. The card allow you to push for damage, secure trad, protect your unit from removal at a very cheap price but the most frustrating part is how elusive aggro deck can abuse this card, normally in exchange for their ability to close the game quickly aggro are supposed to be vulnerable to removal and trading. both weakness are negated by twin disciplines, and let's get into how this card make something like Lee Sin and eye of dragon even more difficult to deal with.

Lee Sin and Eye of the Dragon: I decided into put them in same same spot because they are part of the same deck and have the same issue. Any time a good burst speed spell get's made you can count on these two to abuse it. As soon as turn 3 you can have two eye of the dragon on the board by playing the first and tutoring the second from the deck using Gifts From Beyond into Crescendum triggering their effect immediately allowing the player to stall indefinitely until a level up Lee Sin came in to close the show.

So what do you guys think? And more importantly what cards would like to see adjusted?

 

  • minuano28's Avatar
    Mountain 700 862 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    Now that the meta has settled down which cards do feel need adjustment? Here is my personal list.

    Sivir: I don't understand why they buffed Sivir in first place she was a fine champion before, now she level very quickly and when she do she can give a whole board spellshield, double attack or elusive which is game over against any deck expect plunder. Even without a board she can push for frighting amount of damage if you have Ghost and Flurry of Fists.

    Merciless Hunter: This is a card that I like quit a bit because it forces all those back row champions into combat, still it has premium stat line, one the best keywords and the ability to grant any unit vulnerable, all of that definitely makes her overturned. I do hope that they can nerf her without making her unplayable because card that force combat makes the game more interactive. 

    Emperor's Dais: After so many nerfs Azir/Irelia finally went from broken BS into... tier 1, that should tell how powerful the deck was. The deck is definitely manageable now. Still turn 2 dais into turn Azir followed by any blade dance unit will usually allow them to snow ball the game before the opposition could do anything about it, so dais going to 3 would disrupt that curve and allow for more counterplay.

    Twin Disciplines: Many players were asking for this card to be buffed and as the old saying goes, be careful what you wish for. The card allow you to push for damage, secure trad, protect your unit from removal at a very cheap price but the most frustrating part is how elusive aggro deck can abuse this card, normally in exchange for their ability to close the game quickly aggro are supposed to be vulnerable to removal and trading. both weakness are negated by twin disciplines, and let's get into how this card make something like Lee Sin and eye of dragon even more difficult to deal with.

    Lee Sin and Eye of the Dragon: I decided into put them in same same spot because they are part of the same deck and have the same issue. Any time a good burst speed spell get's made you can count on these two to abuse it. As soon as turn 3 you can have two eye of the dragon on the board by playing the first and tutoring the second from the deck using Gifts From Beyond into Crescendum triggering their effect immediately allowing the player to stall indefinitely until a level up Lee Sin came in to close the show.

    So what do you guys think? And more importantly what cards would like to see adjusted?

     

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  • Sykomyke's Avatar
    Grand Crusader 780 985 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    Regarding your thoughts:

    Sivir:  Kind of agree, her flip needs to require more damage.  Other than that I think she's fine.

    Merciless Hunter:  Also kind of agree,  3/3 would tone down the aggressive nature of the card a bit and prevent it from trading up quite as easily.

    Emperor's Dais:  The issue with Azir Irelia is not Dais, it's blade dance/Irelia and her cadre of cards.  Mono Shurima sucks, and you an see it when you try to use Dais in mono decks and others.  A good test is to take landmarks, and put them into Mono Regions, do they still do well?  In the case of the Grand Plaza and Veiled Temple.  They were STILL insanely good in mono decks, and thus proved that it wasn't pairings that made them overpowered, but just the general card itself.  So...HARD disagree here on nerfing Dais here. Shurima alone is relatively weak barring a few outlier cards.  If anything the one thing Shurima does need nerfed is that stupid 6/4 card with spellshield.  Can't remember the name, but it's broken to say the least.  The problem is Shurima is used to splash with other regions becuase it has a few really good powerhouse cards, but is relatively weak by itself.

    Twin Disciples is a very good card.  Is it broken?  I don't really think so.  I think the real issue, is as you mentioned: Elusives.  Elusive cards, especially the current top meta rally/elusive deck is just broken because elusive cards are generally hard to counter, thus forcing you to either include many more combat tricks/buffs to counter them (which is not even a real good counter considering Ionia has the best anti-spell counter spells in the game) so then you are forced to either go with burst speed counters, OR you are forced to go with sub-par elusives from your own regions in an attempt to block/counter your opponents elusives.

    I said it when the game first came out and I'll say it again:  Elusives should be WAY understatted, and should not be given good scaling alone (cards like Young Witch, Fae Guide, Ghost, and others shouldn't exist).  Golden Aegis is moderately good in Jarvan/Taric decks.  IT's broken when used in decks like all elusives.  

    What they need to do, is start printing anti-splashing keywords on high value spells/minions to prevent splashing cards from one region into another just for 1 or 2 REALLY broken card synergies.  (Something like this for Golden Aegis for example:  Give an ally Barrier this round.  Allegiance: Rally).  They could do the same for Deny or Nopeify.  They could simply add allegiance requirements to specifically overused cards to prevent them from being splashed into decks.

    Lee Sin has always been problematic.  But he is a combo deck so he does have some weakness's against aggro.  And aggro can deal with Eyes of the Dragon relatively easily if enough pressure is applied.  Eyes of the Dragon isn't that strong IMO but I do think that Ionia has too many good spell tools available to them that cover all the bases (anti-spell cards, decent minion and landmark removal, decent buffing potential, lots of decent Elusives, and on top of everything, A LOT of card draw.  If I had to blame a single region for having too many good cards, while other regions suffer from lack of good region identity cards, it's Ionia. IMO Ionia is the crux problem region in the game at the moment.)

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  • minuano28's Avatar
    Mountain 700 862 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    Yeah, I forgot to mention Ruin Runner that's way more deserving of a nerf than Dais but I don't think it's fair to say that Irelia/blade dance is the problem because outside of Azir/Shurima there is no good blade dance deck, even the miss fortune one is more meme than dream.

    I played the deck a lot ( If you can't beat them join them ) so I can say for sure that your main win con is Azir not Irelia. Irelia' role is to pressure your opponent and she is not hard to remove. On it's own all that blade dance do is spawn a bunch mediocre 1/1 it's when combined with Sparring Student, Greenglade Duo or Azir/dais that mechanic truly shines. In fact one of the most common tips giving to Azir/Irelia players is to always keep Azir and dais in your opening hand and to hard mulligan for them if you don't. But in the end of the day I think your right this card is only good in that deck and probably don't deserve a nerf.

    As for elusives it should be noted that while the deck existed before it's was not top tier ( well, not since the beta were many elusives cards got nerfed ) then twin disciplines get's buffed and note only is Ionia elusives top tier again but we also have a bunch of new Sivir/Ionia deck that are also top tier. I don't think that's a coincidence.

    Your also right about Ionia due to all the protection anti-spell it really hard to disrupt their game plan which why I always liked better when it's a support region  

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  • Topandito's Avatar
    905 478 Posts Joined 03/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    I think Twin Disciplines isn't the only combat trick that could use a bit of a toning down. I think a lot of them are allowed to be too impactful and as such often kill reactivity in the game. It would be one thing for these to be good cards but they are so much better than other combat tricks that they are the only ones to see play. I think if your trick is that strong that it shuts out all others even with the same region it needs to be reduced in strength.

    Sharpsight: I think this card needs to give +1/+2 or vice versa. I think that +1/+2 makes the most sense though since it was made originally as a way for Demacia to react to elusive threats. So I say it should keep the more defensive stat line to allow you to block said elusives while retaining more health on the unit blocking. 

    Troll Chant: I would think that this was fine if not for the fact that it outshines every other responsive option in Freljord. I would personally make it cost 3 mana and change the stats to -3/-0 and +0/+3. Such would make it playable still but its cost would be steeper and that would allow it to be compared to old Twin Disciplines before it became too good while still being arguably stronger in the right situations. I feel like even that is me being a bit too generous in wanting to keep Troll Chant strong enough to be played. 

    Shaped Stone: This is an insane card in my eyes and will continue to be problematic forever if left alone. It is one of the best ones in the game and is strictly better than a Demacia combat trick despite that being one of Demacia's strong points. If I wanted to be conservative I would make it give +1/+0 if you don't have the landmark, so it comes with a real cost if it doesn't have the landmark. Even with that said I would consider making it also give +2/+1 when you match the requirement. That I would be open to being wrong on though.

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