This is such a weird rotation season.

Submitted 4 years, 2 months ago by

Perhaps a bit weird to be commenting on this now, as for all we know the next two weeks will send some of these cards I want to talk about back into relevance... not likely, as I'm not seeing any real synergy here (you could say Shotbot bringing Mech Paladin back into relevance, but that already happened without him!) , but we shall see.

So, in a couple of months, it's that time of year again, Hearthstone rotation season. Witchwood, Boomsday Project, and Rastakhan's Rumble are all leaving standard play, unless Adventure Sets being part of Standard mucks things up a bit in ways I've forgotten. I remember getting confused about what was rotating after Kraken, but maybe they were still settling into this whole Standard format back then.

ANYWAYS, I'm 95% sure this is what's rotating, so my post will be based off of that premise. Cool? Cool.

You know the main thing that got me thinking about rotation, and made me want to write down my thoughts about this? At the time, I couldn't think of a SINGLE card from the Witchwood expansion that sees any play today.

Eventually, they started to trickle in. Town Crier. Lifedrinker. Hench-Clan Thug, on and off, I don't believe it's currently being played, but I do believe it was in and out of Rogue decks while the Descent of Dragons meta was settling. I guess Lord Godfrey is part of the current control Warlock build, and maybe this is just a recent thing, but when's the last time you've seen a Lord Godfrey played on you in Standard? It's been a while on my end!

I'm not saying there isn't more, but that's all that's coming to mind. Considering we once lived in a world where the dastardly Shudderwocky terrorized the meta alongside the EVIL Hagatha, two cards that single-handedly carried the Shaman class (and it wasn't uncommon to see them run together, although both cards could create very different archtypes if one so choosed) it's honestly strange to think about how that's the biggest difference we'd see in the meta if Witchwood rotated tomorrow. I think everybody would agree me with me on this, that in early 2020, the Keyword Rush that the Witchwood introduced is now a lot more impactful than the Witchwood expansion itself.


Perhaps I wouldn't be saying this if Baku the Mooneater never went to HoF (I'm in the camp of believing Even decks were still about to die with all the great tools for Evenlock and Even Paladin rotating last year, but the world will never know) but we live in this world as it is.

Onto the Boomsday Project. Zilliax is certainly an impactful card that a lot of decks utilized. SN1P SN4P is another card seen in many decks, and it's also an interesting case in that it's a card that was free for most players (not saying nobody had to craft him, don't get snippy), cards like Wargear are carrying Mech Paladin in the fight against Embiggen Druid, Boommaster Flark seems to have finally found his niche as a part of Quest Hunter, and Stargazer Luna and the Pocket Galaxy are two of the legendaries pulling the Highlander Mage deck together for potential highrolling.
...But wait, aren't I forgetting a few things? Surely I am. What about the dreaded control Warrior deck from back in the day? What about tools like Dyn-O-matic, Omega Devastator, Warpath (yes, I know that's a Witchwood card), Supercollider, the big bad Dr. Boom himself?

Yeah, none of that stuff gets run anymore, Warrior found better stuff to put in.

I'm editing in Mecha'thun, because... I honestly forgot Mecha'thun decks even existed when I was writing this up.

BUT WHAT ABOUT RASTAKHAN'S... okay, you already know where this is going, don't you?

Rastakhan's Rumble is easily the most forgettable set of all the ones we're talking about today. Halazzi helps out with Quest Hunter. He's replaceable Hench-Clan Hogsteed was a fantastic card on launch, but it's usage has dwindled considerably, and I don't believe anything that isn't Quest Hunter wants to run it right now. Holy Wrath came and went in the meta whenever it worked, and it's not working anymore. Part of the Dragon package introduced in Rastakhan (Firetree Witchdoctor, Crowd Roaster, Emberscale Drake) was being played around with for a bit, but as far as I know, all of that's been dropped now. Jan'alai the Dragonhawk used to be a fantastic card that had such a presence in Mage decks, BEAST MAGE was a thing for a bit, using cards like Untamed Beastmaster to buff your Jan'alai, Black Cat, and other such things with really good Mage cards that just so happened to be Beasts.

And now that entire package is dead.

Akali the Rhino, Oondasta, big rush minions were a thing at one point back when we were in a combo meta and everybody wanted to smash it before their combo happened. (Sidenote: Holy crap, remember when Amani War Bear surprised everyone and ended up being GOOD? Yeah...)

Now we aren't in a combo meta anymore. Which is also why Mojomaster Zihi fell out of favor, she's not really worth much when we aren't in a combo meta.

So, is there a point to any of this? How Big Bad Blizzard scammed us all through powercreep, rendering our previous OP cards completely worthless in a Descent of Dragons meta, forcing us to buy the shiny new cards as the old ones that used to rule the roost were slowly but surely forced out of the metagame?

No, not really. It's just weird to think about, to me. Three expansions, all of which used to have some extremely powerful cards that dominated or played a significant part in the metagame at some point, and I can think of so few, if any cards that I'm actually going to miss vanishing from the metagame. I'm not saying the rotation won't have any impact and won't change the meta at all (Mech Paladin is in a REALLY bad place now, for example) a rotation is on it's way, and yet? For me personally, it really doesn't feel that way, at all. I wouldn't call this a bold prediction to say that this set rotation will probably be the least meaningful one in Hearthstone's history. Compare that to Infinite Value Death Knights rotating out last year, and it's such a bizarre shift in the landscape to me, that we live in a world where cards like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, Hagatha the Witch, the SHUDDERWOCKY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, and a 7 mana 4/4 that summons Ragnaros the Firelord with him are in the current format, and don't see any play.

I've said my piece, now I'll open it up to you guys, any thoughts?

And before anyone says it, yes, cards stagnate and phase out of the meta, that's how card games work, that's going to happen.

I challenge anyone to argue that there was ever a time in Hearthstone history where it happened more than the Year of the Dragon.

  • WailordKari's Avatar
    145 61 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Perhaps a bit weird to be commenting on this now, as for all we know the next two weeks will send some of these cards I want to talk about back into relevance... not likely, as I'm not seeing any real synergy here (you could say Shotbot bringing Mech Paladin back into relevance, but that already happened without him!) , but we shall see.

    So, in a couple of months, it's that time of year again, Hearthstone rotation season. Witchwood, Boomsday Project, and Rastakhan's Rumble are all leaving standard play, unless Adventure Sets being part of Standard mucks things up a bit in ways I've forgotten. I remember getting confused about what was rotating after Kraken, but maybe they were still settling into this whole Standard format back then.

    ANYWAYS, I'm 95% sure this is what's rotating, so my post will be based off of that premise. Cool? Cool.

    You know the main thing that got me thinking about rotation, and made me want to write down my thoughts about this? At the time, I couldn't think of a SINGLE card from the Witchwood expansion that sees any play today.

    Eventually, they started to trickle in. Town Crier. Lifedrinker. Hench-Clan Thug, on and off, I don't believe it's currently being played, but I do believe it was in and out of Rogue decks while the Descent of Dragons meta was settling. I guess Lord Godfrey is part of the current control Warlock build, and maybe this is just a recent thing, but when's the last time you've seen a Lord Godfrey played on you in Standard? It's been a while on my end!

    I'm not saying there isn't more, but that's all that's coming to mind. Considering we once lived in a world where the dastardly Shudderwocky terrorized the meta alongside the EVIL Hagatha, two cards that single-handedly carried the Shaman class (and it wasn't uncommon to see them run together, although both cards could create very different archtypes if one so choosed) it's honestly strange to think about how that's the biggest difference we'd see in the meta if Witchwood rotated tomorrow. I think everybody would agree me with me on this, that in early 2020, the Keyword Rush that the Witchwood introduced is now a lot more impactful than the Witchwood expansion itself.


    Perhaps I wouldn't be saying this if Baku the Mooneater never went to HoF (I'm in the camp of believing Even decks were still about to die with all the great tools for Evenlock and Even Paladin rotating last year, but the world will never know) but we live in this world as it is.

    Onto the Boomsday Project. Zilliax is certainly an impactful card that a lot of decks utilized. SN1P SN4P is another card seen in many decks, and it's also an interesting case in that it's a card that was free for most players (not saying nobody had to craft him, don't get snippy), cards like Wargear are carrying Mech Paladin in the fight against Embiggen Druid, Boommaster Flark seems to have finally found his niche as a part of Quest Hunter, and Stargazer Luna and the Pocket Galaxy are two of the legendaries pulling the Highlander Mage deck together for potential highrolling.
    ...But wait, aren't I forgetting a few things? Surely I am. What about the dreaded control Warrior deck from back in the day? What about tools like Dyn-O-matic, Omega Devastator, Warpath (yes, I know that's a Witchwood card), Supercollider, the big bad Dr. Boom himself?

    Yeah, none of that stuff gets run anymore, Warrior found better stuff to put in.

    I'm editing in Mecha'thun, because... I honestly forgot Mecha'thun decks even existed when I was writing this up.

    BUT WHAT ABOUT RASTAKHAN'S... okay, you already know where this is going, don't you?

    Rastakhan's Rumble is easily the most forgettable set of all the ones we're talking about today. Halazzi helps out with Quest Hunter. He's replaceable Hench-Clan Hogsteed was a fantastic card on launch, but it's usage has dwindled considerably, and I don't believe anything that isn't Quest Hunter wants to run it right now. Holy Wrath came and went in the meta whenever it worked, and it's not working anymore. Part of the Dragon package introduced in Rastakhan (Firetree Witchdoctor, Crowd Roaster, Emberscale Drake) was being played around with for a bit, but as far as I know, all of that's been dropped now. Jan'alai the Dragonhawk used to be a fantastic card that had such a presence in Mage decks, BEAST MAGE was a thing for a bit, using cards like Untamed Beastmaster to buff your Jan'alai, Black Cat, and other such things with really good Mage cards that just so happened to be Beasts.

    And now that entire package is dead.

    Akali the Rhino, Oondasta, big rush minions were a thing at one point back when we were in a combo meta and everybody wanted to smash it before their combo happened. (Sidenote: Holy crap, remember when Amani War Bear surprised everyone and ended up being GOOD? Yeah...)

    Now we aren't in a combo meta anymore. Which is also why Mojomaster Zihi fell out of favor, she's not really worth much when we aren't in a combo meta.

    So, is there a point to any of this? How Big Bad Blizzard scammed us all through powercreep, rendering our previous OP cards completely worthless in a Descent of Dragons meta, forcing us to buy the shiny new cards as the old ones that used to rule the roost were slowly but surely forced out of the metagame?

    No, not really. It's just weird to think about, to me. Three expansions, all of which used to have some extremely powerful cards that dominated or played a significant part in the metagame at some point, and I can think of so few, if any cards that I'm actually going to miss vanishing from the metagame. I'm not saying the rotation won't have any impact and won't change the meta at all (Mech Paladin is in a REALLY bad place now, for example) a rotation is on it's way, and yet? For me personally, it really doesn't feel that way, at all. I wouldn't call this a bold prediction to say that this set rotation will probably be the least meaningful one in Hearthstone's history. Compare that to Infinite Value Death Knights rotating out last year, and it's such a bizarre shift in the landscape to me, that we live in a world where cards like Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, Hagatha the Witch, the SHUDDERWOCKY FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE, and a 7 mana 4/4 that summons Ragnaros the Firelord with him are in the current format, and don't see any play.

    I've said my piece, now I'll open it up to you guys, any thoughts?

    And before anyone says it, yes, cards stagnate and phase out of the meta, that's how card games work, that's going to happen.

    I challenge anyone to argue that there was ever a time in Hearthstone history where it happened more than the Year of the Dragon.

    3
  • Zwane's Avatar
    Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Erm I play Janal'ai a lot, and I am sure I will miss Zilliax, Galaxy spell, Luna....hope some good stuff will replace it.

    -1
  • anchorm4n's Avatar
    Toybox Tactician 1895 2309 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    I feel you. Imho, this is a result of the new Blizzard politics - they're less careful with the balancing of new cards and compensate by nerfing faster. It's a good thing they keep things shifting and evolving these days, so the game doesn't get stale too fast. Remember when Rastakhan's came out and nobody played 90% of the cards because they just weren't strong enough? At least that's how it felt for me at the time. That was the old politics, they were too careful and released majorly bad cards if you compare them to the new ones.

    As you pointed out, the risk of releasing something as powerful as DoD is huge powercreep... but that will surely result in a huge meta shift once the year of the dragon rotates out next year.

    Anyway... I've been thinking along those very lines these days because I had been planing to go through my collection and dust what I don't need and create what I want to try out for literally weeks. I haven't tried out embiggen druid yet, I'd like to try quest hunter but miss the quest, halazzi and flark because I dusted them months ago... the point is, I don't have the time to do more than the daily quests and play another 2 or 3 games each day, if that. So I concluded to quit standard for good. I like how Blizzard comes across more quickly with nerfs and the events in between expansions, but the meta has gotten too fast for me while I have less and less time to play. I do regularly preorder expansions so I do have the ressources to keep up with the game in theory, but I don't feel like it's worth it anymore. The value of my cards is much higher in wild.

    tl;dr: you're right. I'm switching to wild for good.

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

    0
  • Unreal89's Avatar
    400 174 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    I get what you are saying.

    Generally after Year of the Mammoth rotated (Un'Goro, Frozen Throne and Kobolds and Catacombs) - there was a BIG drop in card power level...

    Low power level cards started at Witchwood, Boomsday got many impactful cards (but not OP cards in my opinion... maybe outside of pre-nerf 7-mana Dr. Boom - Hero card...)... And then we have Rastakhan's Rumble (summary - lol, what a joke expansion... super-low power level and whole concept of Spirit cards (Totem-like minions) FAILED).

     

    So now... My opinion is, current year - Rise of Shadows, Saviors of Uldum, Descent of Dragons - seems to me - just as impactful as Un'Goro, Frozen Throne and Kobolds were...  Indeed - Witchwood, Boomsday and Rumble - rotating out - feels like not a big deal.

    My personal opinion is - people got bored of oldest expansions (2018 - Witchwood)... and low power level further ensures, we are playing mostly 2019 expansions. Players who like standard, always like NEW cards more :)  (unless we have something blatantly OP, remember Guldan - Death-Knight Hero card ?)

     

    I am wondering now, where they take us next. As in which way they take now:

    1)  Kobolds into Witchwood way (BIG drop in power level),

    2)  continuing with SIMILAR power level like in Year of the Dragon (but NOT stronger than Dragons; Dragons as a highest point of power level),

    3)  continuing with Descent of Dragons power level... or slightly higher (which might mean, Classic set can become way less impactful than ever before).

     

    I just hope it's not 3), as further ramping up power level can mean, Standard becomes... well, "slightly" crazy? (it might also be a annoying clown-fiesta...)

     

    Anyways, I am also becoming more of a Wild fan - the longer I play. I don't dust old cards (maybe some useless ones).

    Seeing as Blizzard became FASTER with reacting to Standard meta, this year can be interesting. I am REALLY awaiting next Standard Year announcement and Hall of Fame cards (?) and... maybe Classic Set redesign ? (yes, I feel naive when I say this).

    1
  • Thonson's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 1740 1722 Posts Joined 03/24/2019
    Posted 4 years, 2 months ago

    Not all of these are going to be in the top tier meta decks, just saying I've personally played or seen them recently:

    WW: Ferocious Howl, Rat Trap, Arcane Keysmith, Blink Fox, Tess Greymane, Zap!, Earthen Might, Hagatha the Witch, Shudderwock, Lord Godfrey, Town Crier, Warpath, Baleful Banker (as part of Holy Wrath Paladin), Lifedrinker, Scaleworm (in some Dragon builds), Witchwood Grizzly

    BDP: Floop's Glorious Gloop, Dendrologist, Landscaping, Flobbidinous Floop, Mulchmuncher, Fireworks Tech, Venomizer, Spider Bomb, Stargazer Luna, Luna's Pocket Galaxy, Autodefense Matrix, Crystology, Glow-Tron, Crystalsmith Kangor, Prismatic Lens, Shrink Ray, Necrium Blade, Voltaic Burst, Electra Stormsurge, Thunderhead, The Soularium, Eternium Rover, Weapons Project, Mecharoo, Galvanizer, SN1P-SN4P, Subject 9, Zilliax, Damaged Stegotron, Mechanical Whelp, Missile Launcher, Mecha'thun

    RR: Wardruid Loti, Predatory Instincts, Springpaw, Master's Call, Flash of Light, Time Out!, Shirvallah, the Tiger, Seance, Mass Hysteria, Likkim, Spirit of the Frog, Zentimo, Rain of Toads, Grim Rally, Blood Troll Sapper (this is definitely a personal favorite), Dragon Roar, Firetree Witchdoctor

     

    So there are definitely more cards in play than what was coming to mind for you, and honestly the early rotation of all odd/even mechanic cards took some other potential options out of standard play.  Specifically things like Daring Fire-Eater, Cinderstorm, Clockwork Automaton, and Jan'alai, the Dragonhawk which were cards I ran in my Odd Mage deck prior to the early odd/even rotation.

    But yes, overall the power level of the Year of the Dragon sets was much higher than Year of the Raven and overall a lot of the existing top archetypes will probably exist after rotation and just need some adjustments with the cards they are losing.  Whether that comes Year of the Dragon replacements or from the new set(s) of 2020 we'll have to wait and see.  One of the few archetypes I can say for certain will become Wild only after this is the Shirvallah Holy Wrath Paladin deck as the mighty Loa and her Banker are going WIld.

    As for rotation, it's always whatever came out two year ago.  So the first set of 2020 is released, anything from 2018 rotates to Wild.  Currently Wild is any set or adventure from 2017 and eariler.

    Quick!  Someone give me something clever to write here.

    2
  • frenzy's Avatar
    COMMENT_COUNT_200_HS 945 474 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 4 years, 1 month ago

    Hunter is my favourite class, and Springpaw makes it into every deck! Two 1/1 beasts with rush. So good.

    by frenzy 3 years, 7 months ago
    1 1380 1380 1160 0
    by frenzy 3 years, 11 months ago
    1 1640 1640 1083 0
    by frenzy 4 years, 1 month ago
    3 1440 1440 1977 0
    by frenzy 4 years, 6 months ago
    4 3400 3400 1198 0

    0
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