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Legends of Runeterra

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Mageseeker Investigator wording

Submitted 4 years ago by

Yea, more card wording!

The text of Mageseeker Investigator is ambiguous. "Cast" is intended as past tense here, which is fine, but it could be taken to mean "if you cast a spell later."

Obviously, if you give it some thought, it would be very strange if it worked that way, but new players aren't known for giving anything any thought.

This can all be cleared up if they just change it to: "If you have cast a spell ..."

  • FortyDust's Avatar
    Pumpkin 1190 1897 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years ago

    Yea, more card wording!

    The text of Mageseeker Investigator is ambiguous. "Cast" is intended as past tense here, which is fine, but it could be taken to mean "if you cast a spell later."

    Obviously, if you give it some thought, it would be very strange if it worked that way, but new players aren't known for giving anything any thought.

    This can all be cleared up if they just change it to: "If you have cast a spell ..."

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  • Bystekhilcar's Avatar
    270 335 Posts Joined 09/02/2019
    Posted 4 years ago

    To be fair, it's a Play effect, which triggers when and only when card is played. So, by its very nature, it looks at a snapshot when played and any subsequent effect does nothing. I presume adding the word would cause overlap issues with the card frame, though, because I agree it'd be both clearer and more legible with 'have' in there.

    I see you when you're sleeping; I'm gone before you wake

    I'm not as good as turn 4 Barnes; But I'm at least a Twilight Drake

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  • meisterz39's Avatar
    925 1200 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years ago

    I agree that including the word "have" would make the interaction more obvious, but I think the use of the "play" keyword is what ultimately makes this wording clear/deterministic.

    The effect occurs when you play Mageseeker Investigator from your hand, and unlike some games (e.g. MTG), playing a unit doesn't interact with the stack, so the only way to trigger this is by playing a spell prior to playing this unit.

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  • TriMay's Avatar
    430 130 Posts Joined 01/15/2020
    Posted 4 years ago

    Yeah except it's an "on play" ability, so, there's that going against this point, also, it glows yellow if active in hand :/ Though yeah it probably wouldn't hurt to add one more 4-letter word

    You can't exactly word everything perfectly for new players to be able to understand everything the first time.  I understand a lot of these posts have fair points, but in this case, it's such a weird way to think about it that, at some point in time, you gotta let them learn by not playing correctly.  I've had more than my fair share of "For Science!" moments :)

    Also seeing a player play this inactive doesn't necessarily mean they don't understand it.  I've had to tempo play it with a bad hand at times :T


    EDIT:
    I will admit...
    I didn't refresh the page at all to check if anyone else had said the same thing as me before I posted, I thought I'd be the first, sorry

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  • FortyDust's Avatar
    Pumpkin 1190 1897 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years ago
    Quote From FortyDust

    Obviously, if you give it some thought, it would be very strange if it worked that way

    Sorry to quote myself, but c'mon, you guys, gimme a break.

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  • sinti's Avatar
    Senior Writer Chocolate Cake 2070 2774 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 4 years ago

    I must admit, it took me a few minutes when i first saw this card until i realized how it works (without playing it). The past tense of cast being the same word does make it a bit confusing at first. Yes, it is one of those cards that once played, you will know how it works forever and i guess it is ok, but i can understand the sentiment where FortyDust is coming from.

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  • meisterz39's Avatar
    925 1200 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years ago

    Haha, I don't think we meant to gang up like that, I think we just all tried to be the first response.

    You're 100% right that this wording can be improved, and there's already at least one example (Unstable Voltician) where we see Riot using the wording you're suggesting (i.e. "you've cast"), but it very amusingly works in an untintuitive way whereby it triggers regardless of whether the spell is past or future.

    I think this is a great example of where Riot can tighten up its templating and make both cards (and any more like it) better, but I think the "play" keyword removes ambiguity because it takes precedent over any ambiguous timing details in the effect text.

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  • BlueSpark's Avatar
    180 193 Posts Joined 01/27/2020
    Posted 4 years ago
    Quote From sinti

    I must admit, it took me a few minutes when i first saw this card until i realized how it works (without playing it). The past tense of cast being the same word does make it a bit confusing at first.

    I'm in the same boat - this was actually the very first card whose text got me confused during the first days of the beta. But I can agree that the "Play" keyword makes the card's functionality decently clear on its own.

    However, flexing my linguistic prowess, I would like to state that not only would adding in a "have" make the card effect more explicitly clear, but it'd also be the better choice from a grammatical perspective to use the present perfect here as opposed to the simple past tense.

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  • DoubleSummon's Avatar
    Ancestral Recall 1585 2271 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years ago

    Agreed, the text could use clarification, I never played the card but I realized how it must work.. but at the same time it could be more clear.

    Would post it at reddit, I dobt there are any Rioters that look for feedback here.. now they are closing the boards, Reddit is their main platform.

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  • Bystekhilcar's Avatar
    270 335 Posts Joined 09/02/2019
    Posted 4 years ago

    I'mma just bask in the glow of the infamous Internet 'First' :P

    I see you when you're sleeping; I'm gone before you wake

    I'm not as good as turn 4 Barnes; But I'm at least a Twilight Drake

    -1
  • FortyDust's Avatar
    Pumpkin 1190 1897 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years ago
    Quote From DoubleSummon

    Would post it at reddit, I dobt there are any Rioters that look for feedback here.. now they are closing the boards, Reddit is their main platform.

    I won't be mad if someone else wants to do that. I don't remember my reddit username and am very lazy.

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