New shadow isles package opinions (Maokai's reveal)

Since there is no dedicated reveal thread for every card, cause the game is not as popular yet ( :( )

I want to disscuss the new cards revealed they don't seem as strong as previous cards but I think they are worth discussing.

Maokai - I already mentioned it in the article comments but he isn't playable by itself, making a 2/1 ethereal challenger for 4 mana AND summoning another unit is really weak also being a 1/4.. guess he is like heimer a champion that never attack and is a generator of sort.. but turrets for every spells is probably much much better than  a 2/1 challenger once every turn.

Also I am not that big of a believer in his effect you need to wait 4 turns for your opponent to lose, most games don't get to 10 mana anyway..

also I think tossing or killing your units 25 times is a LOT and it's certainly not easy, so dunno it comes online quite late but if you play a full controll/fatigue deck.. alright I guess. I see a potential synergy with hecarim though so who knows.. maybe he is good enough as he takes around 2 turns to really pay for itself tempowise.. at least it can block and you wouldn't feel too bad about playing him defensively as contrary to heimer.

Sap Magic- not sure really 3 mana heal everything 3 for 3 cards you would never draw anyway seems good for a fatigue deck, maybe also other decks looking for healing, healling your units is very niche in hs such effect costs 2 and heals for 6 in priest, I think that if you are not looking at tossing as an upside then this card is not worth running.

Thorny Toad - a 1/4 statline for 2 is very defensive can save you quite a lot of time looking for those removal options, specially with the heal for 2, which I think is fine in maokai decks, this probably fits such builds

Deadbloom Wanderer - a 3/2 lifesteal for 3 in hs it's garbage but here most of the time units do trade.. a 2/2 lifesteal for 3 is not that great, but one attack is probably important cause of fearsome and the 3 hp breakpoints. also toss archtype who knows..

Overgrown Snapvine - now I think this card is really interesting but VERY costly, it can create a lot of copies of itself summoning spiders.. also enable death triggers I can't wait to build around this card seems really fun.. but is it good? nah probably not.. costs too much but certainly good in sacrificial decks.

Even if it would be possible to level Maokai in any reasonable ammount of time, a deck out win still takes 4 extra turns.
The Deck Destruction is designed to beat fatigue, which doesn't exist right now. 

Maokai could become better in the future if the meta slows down, but i can't see the game being pushed in that direction due the existence of Ezreal decks.

I think it's important to remember that levelling up Maokai doesn't only remove the opponent's deck until 4 cards are left, but it is also guaranteed to obliterate all champions in the deck. This can be gamewinning against a slow deck that is highly reliable on its champions to win, like a control Ezreal deck, and at the same time levelling up Maokai should be easiest against those types of decks.

Technically any deck having at least twice the same champion can outlast the four turns after the deck obliteration effect by playing the champion and the spell associated to it to shuffle one champion back in the deck indefinitly if not contested.

Quote From sydderal

Technically any deck having at least twice the same champion can outlast the four turns after the deck obliteration effect by playing the champion and the spell associated to it to shuffle one champion back in the deck indefinitly if not contested.

Maokai actually destroys champions from the deck unless you have like 3 copies of a champion in hand that's very optimistic.. it doesn't happen enough also the toss maokai deck should have enough removal to win..

TBH I think I agree with swim.. pure toss deck is like a teemo deck it's a meme but maokai can be useful the 2/1 every turn you play a minion can be really useful and the 4 mana slot in SI is quite empty so it can see play as an engine 4 drop in minion heavy SI decks looking for 4 drops while not having a champion spot taken.

Quote From GerritDeMan

I think it's important to remember that levelling up Maokai doesn't only remove the opponent's deck until 4 cards are left, but it is also guaranteed to obliterate all champions in the deck. 

Unless they have 2 Karmas in hand/board--then they can start double-cast Karma's Insight of Ages to spawn 4 random spells plus shuffle 2 additional Karma into their deck.

Hopefully they address that before this expansion launches; otherwise Maokai will just lose to any Karma decks--probably to the point of being unplayable, since she's in all the popular control decks right now.

I think Maokai could be used in a Dawnspiders deck in order to have a unit die each round

Not 3 copies, just twice the same champion and yes in hand. But to manage twice the same champion in hand well you need at least two of the same in your deck at start. And not that optimistic if you consider a champion tutor card exist already and that without extra draw on turn 10 a deck with 2 triple champions set you have roughly 42% chance to have twice of one or another.

Also if you toss actively with maokai , you make yourself more likely to draw champion card. and if you toss fast it probably mean you are actually tossing your removal out of your deck too . (since playing creature = toss and spells don't).

All that just to say that even if dream toss maokai exist you still can see it coming and prepare eventually to still play the long run game without constructing around.

In conclusion popping a 2-1 challenger each turn and thinning the deck to draw champions could be more powerful than the level up effect in itself and in that regard that would make maokai a not a control deck but a mid range combo one.

I agree I think in most cases people won't flip maokai.. but it's an ok failsafe if the game goes for REALLY long for some reason and you happen to toss too many cards.

the thing is that it probably takes about 2 rturns to regain the tempo loss of playing a 4 mana do nothing.. Heimerdinger is faster in the regard you can recover tempo faster.

Maokai seems like a pretty dumb Champion. Build your whole deck around him and execute on this Toss/Mill win condition and your prize is that your opponent will auto-lose...soon...if you can survive for several more turns despite having tossed most of your deck to get to this point.