Bluetracker

Tracks Blizzard employees across various accounts.

Should we go back to the old system?

Iksar just made a comment saying they could be changing the drafting system back to the old way where random cards from the same rarity are offered in each pick. I thought this will decide the fate of the arena so this deserves a new thread for discussion.

Personally I like the depth of the bucket system and and the feeling that you can fine tune the way your draft goes. I don’t like them printing overpowered cards in common like Firelands Portal which will warp the meta even more. Also rebucketing and microadjustment that comes with the bucket system can be effective tools to balance the meta appropriately. The problem is less about the system itself but more about Blizzard’s poor implementation and maintenance of the system. They need to make clear why there are complaints, put more effort into monitoring the balance in the game mode and also the communication of the changes.

What do you think about this?

Iksar

Posted 4 years, 9 months ago (Source)

So, this will not come as a surprise to /u/iksarhs, but the replies so far show that you can't make everyone happy and opinions are actually quite divided / all over the map.

I do feel bad for Team 5. They tried, and if you looked at the bucketing card by card, they got plenty of things right. They're working under a microscope, and arena's just one chunk of an endless list. Each constructed expansion, each new tavern brawl, each new single player thing requires frantic work all the time on no kidding deadlines, and arena hangs around in the background, so easy to forget about. But I'm off topic.

I honestly don't know what I like better. I've complained about the buckets and the problems along the way quite a bit, but I've also had a lot of fun under buckets, kept playing, even improved my win rate a little. I've probably gotten better at drafting. I think this is a good experiment, and I hope that everyone keeps an open mind, and that Bliz collects more feedback from the experiment.

The unsolvable divide is that lots of people like playing decks with quite a few bucket 7 cards - assuming everyone else has them as well - and lots of people don't. I'm pro bucket 7, so while Blizzard could make a bucket system I would like, they never will because they designed it specifically for people who hate Bucket 7. Fundamentally, I think this system is more boring and getting rid of buckets will effectively expand the card pool in a big way, and I like that more than I like all the tough draft choices.

I'll probably enjoy arena either way. But if they had just fixed Eccentric Scribe as quickly last meta as they fixed Wrapped Golem this meta, we'd probably look back at the whole thing as a success.

I knew this would be a divided topic, but it's good to get it out in the open so it doesn't come as a huge surprise later. There are a bunch of benefits to having no buckets. We don't have to do a rebucket patch, so the initial balance patch should come out a week after the patch rather than 2+ weeks. Decks should feel more different from one another because there are no small buckets that made some groupings of cards appear more often than they would otherwise. As another result of getting rid of small buckets, the cards that appear the most often should be seen around 0.9-1 times on average, which is quite a bit less often than the cards that appear most in the current system (1.5ish). There, of course, is also some downside. This is true with every design decision. We already have buckets completed for 15.4 if we wanted to use them. It's not a question of doing the work, it's done. It's just a question of which system feels better. After spending so much time with the bucket system, my personal opinion is that buckets make drafting a little more interesting, but sacrifice the gameplay experience by making decks feel more similar than they would otherwise. Which is more important is subjective, but I think it's healthy to try different things.

<blockquote class="quoted">
    <div class="md"><p>So, this will not come as a surprise to <a href="/u/iksarhs">/u/iksarhs</a>, but the replies so far show that you can't make everyone happy and opinions are actually quite divided / all over the map.</p>

<p>I do feel bad for Team 5. They tried, and if you looked at the bucketing card by card, they got plenty of things right.  They're working under a microscope, and arena's just one chunk of an endless list. Each constructed expansion, each new tavern brawl, each new single player thing requires frantic work all the time on no kidding deadlines, and arena hangs around in the background, so easy to forget about. But I'm off topic.</p>

<p>I honestly don't know what I like better. I've complained about the buckets and the problems along the way quite a bit, but I've also had a lot of fun under buckets, kept playing, even improved my win rate a little. I've probably gotten better at drafting. I think this is a good experiment, and I hope that everyone keeps an open mind, and that Bliz collects more feedback from the experiment.</p>

<p>The unsolvable divide is that lots of people like playing decks with quite a few bucket 7 cards - assuming everyone else has them as well - and lots of people don't. I'm pro bucket 7, so while Blizzard could make a bucket system I would like, they never will because they designed it specifically for people who hate Bucket 7. Fundamentally, I think this system is more boring and getting rid of buckets will effectively expand the card pool in a big way, and I like that more than I like all the tough draft choices.</p>

<p>I'll probably enjoy arena either way. But if they had just fixed Eccentric Scribe as quickly last meta as they fixed Wrapped Golem this meta, we'd probably look back at the whole thing as a success.</p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div class="md"><p>I knew this would be a divided topic, but it's good to get it out in the open so it doesn't come as a huge surprise later. There are a bunch of benefits to having no buckets. We don't have to do a rebucket patch, so the initial balance patch should come out a week after the patch rather than 2+ weeks. Decks should feel more different from one another because there are no small buckets that made some groupings of cards appear more often than they would otherwise. As another result of getting rid of small buckets, the cards that appear the most often should be seen around 0.9-1 times on average, which is quite a bit less often than the cards that appear most in the current system (1.5ish). There, of course, is also some downside. This is true with every design decision. We already have buckets completed for 15.4 if we wanted to use them. It's not a question of doing the work, it's done. It's just a question of which system feels better. After spending so much time with the bucket system, my personal opinion is that buckets make drafting a little more interesting, but sacrifice the gameplay experience by making decks feel more similar than they would otherwise. Which is more important is subjective, but I think it's healthy to try different things.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/ArenaHS/comments/crn4gl/should_we_go_back_to_the_old_system/exa4yx3">Iksar</a>)
<hr/>

<p><div class="md"><p>I knew this would be a divided topic, but it's good to get it out in the open so it doesn't come as a huge surprise later. There are a bunch of benefits to having no buckets. We don't have to do a rebucket patch, so the initial balance patch should come out a week after the patch rather than 2+ weeks. Decks should feel more different from one another because there are no small buckets that made some groupings of cards appear more often than they would otherwise. As another result of getting rid of small buckets, the cards that appear the most often should be seen around 0.9-1 times on average, which is quite a bit less often than the cards that appear most in the current system (1.5ish). There, of course, is also some downside. This is true with every design decision. We already have buckets completed for 15.4 if we wanted to use them. It's not a question of doing the work, it's done. It's just a question of which system feels better. After spending so much time with the bucket system, my personal opinion is that buckets make drafting a little more interesting, but sacrifice the gameplay experience by making decks feel more similar than they would otherwise. Which is more important is subjective, but I think it's healthy to try different things.</p>
</div> (<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/ArenaHS/comments/crn4gl/should_we_go_back_to_the_old_system/exa4yx3">Source</a>)</p>
    
    <hr/>

Bluetracker

Should we go back to the old system?

Tweet

ODYN