Two The Point - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

  • Fedrion's Avatar Maximum Volume 1365 721 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From NebuchadnezzarHS

    I usually refrain from posting in the discussion thread, but I have a general question: "What is the purpose of the description field on the submission form?"

    I used it to repeat the card text, but should something else be entered instead, like card flavor text or perhaps even card motivation text? I would like to know, because if I keep using it wrongly, I will enter each competition with a handicap/penalty that I am unaware of.

    I think that giving some card flavor (Not necessarily flavor text, just a little "why the card is like this"), and a little reasoning on how you can use this card its what that field is intended for.

    If not, well, you're not the only one that was handicapped lol

    Papa Nurgle wants to share his gifts.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From anchorm4n

    Demon
    It's a simple but very solid effect on that iconic 1/1/3 statline. I like it. That said, two minor issues: I'm no native speaker, but "Earthwarder" got me irritated for a moment. Shouldn't it be "waren"? Then I'm not sure why you're using future tense in the effect ("will always summon"). Don't aura cards usually use present tense ("always summons")? I've run a quick check and there's not a single card in the database that has the word "will" on it.

    "Warder" is actually correct here. A "warder" is another word for a guard of some type, and to "ward" something can be used as a way of saying to protect or guard something. This is enforced on the card as summoning Stoneclaw Totem, which protects things and is also the representative of earth out of the original 4 Hero Power Totems.

    You actually aren't the first person to point out that "will always" is not proper wording here. Truth be told, I'm not quite sure what the best wording to use here is. I haven't really been able to find anything better.

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar The Cake Is A Lie 1590 1684 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    @Fedrion: I understand your train of thought, I've done something similar in that competition that made us design effects that trigger next turn. But this week is about having 2 lines of text max and so your current version doesn't work. :/

    @KANSAS: I feared as much. I've tinkered a bit on Hearthcards and you get it into two lines if you set the font size to -5 and end the first line with "Legendary". I don't know where the DQ line is drawn when it comes to altering font size, but for my eyes this looks okay. If you choose to ignore my little nitpicking issue, I'd definitely go with the original wording.

    @Demon: Thanks for the explanation. Regarding the text, why don't you simply phrase it in the present tense? "Your Hero Power always summons Stoneclaw Totem." 

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From anchorm4n

    @Demon: Thanks for the explanation. Regarding the text, why don't you simply phrase it in the present tense? "Your Hero Power always summons Stoneclaw Totem." 

    There is a technical problem with this text which is the fact that despite having less characters overall, this exact wording is harder to fit into 2 lines of text because of the specific line "summons Stoneclaw Totem" as opposed to "summon Stoneclaw Totem" which takes up more space on one line and forces it into another line. This is actually something I'm finding out after I already made the card with the wording it has now, which makes the process moving forward a bit more difficult to navigate around.

    It's a case of a weird wording problem, which is one reason why prompts based on specific card texts are usually avoided.

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar The Cake Is A Lie 1590 1684 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Honestly, I think tinkering with the font size shouldn't be an immediate reason for a DQ as long as you don't go out of the window with it. I mean you have to compensate for a single letter, that should be done by going -1 or -2 and won't probably be noticed at all if people don't know it from the start. I've tried out alternate wording for KANSAS' card and it still looked okay at -4. We could also ask Shadows but I'm all for not asking questions in cases like this. 

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 410 370 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From Arkasaur

    @Wailor A neat idea, and I'm not too concerned about reusing designs from other sites. I would like to this this card with more warlock flavour - I'm not really sure at the moment why it's a warlock card over say a Mage card that has historical "Time magic" effects - An infinite dragonflight art/name could fix that of course.  

    I used the Hourglass watermark to simulate that it belongs to an expansion where all classes have time-based cards (just like all classes got Demons in Outlands). The card also has a bit of Warlock flavor in that it is suposed to make the minion die of old age (Tempus Fugit means one day you're young and before you realise, you're old AF).

    I understand this can be a bit of a stretch (basing the flavor on an expansion that doesn't exist lol), so I made a Priest version. Warlock tends to have more removal with drawbacks than Priest and the gameplay of a Zoo class is more interesting with this effect, but maybe the extra flavor makes up for it.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From anchorm4n

    Honestly, I think tinkering with the font size shouldn't be an immediate reason for a DQ as long as you don't go out of the window with it. I mean you have to compensate for a single letter, that should be done by going -1 or -2 and won't probably be noticed at all if people don't know it from the start. I've tried out alternate wording for KANSAS' card and it still looked okay at -4. We could also ask Shadows but I'm all for not asking questions in cases like this. 

    I do agree with this. The current wording actually already has text size reduced. It's currently at -2, but it works because it looks natural with the way the text on the game is usually presented. There is a problem with reducing the card text too much in that it can come off as natural and an attempt to force a card into the prompt where it wouldn't otherwise belong.

    Alternatively, "can only" will make the text work while still appearing natural, but my hesitancy to use this wording stems from the fact that "can only" could psychologically make the effect sound like a downside even if the effect itself is still exactly the same.

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 410 370 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Feedback

    BasilAnguis
    I Take Flight. It may be simple, but it's very flavorful.

    In any case, both cards could use some improvement in the artwork department (not that they are bad arts, but the style doesn't fit Hearthstone)

    Fedrion
    Be careful, because the two versions you made later have three lines of text and would be diqualified.

    I think the text should probably read: "Restore X Health. Gain an empty Mana Crystal." This will hopefully fit in two lines.

    Arkasaur
    So, it's a 4 mana spell + a 2 mana minion for 5 mana. I don't think it's too OP, especially Hunter tends to receive very OP control cards and it ends up never using them lol.

    KANSAS
    I prefer the shorter version, purely because it looks cleaner. Blizzard has been pretty inconsistent with the wording of this kinds of effects, so it's "correct" either way.

    Demonxz95
    I don't think the unorthodox wording is too much of a problem. I'd still submit the card as it is.

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar The Cake Is A Lie 1590 1684 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Wow, that's next level depth of design and the reason why I like to compete with you veterans so much: I'm learning a lot.

    I will tinker some more with your text tomorrow, but maybe just cutting the "always" might be an acceptable solution. It isn't really necessary, even if the text sounds better with than without that word. "Always" is also very rarely used in HS so far. "Your Hero Power summons Stoneclaw Totem."... Hmmmm. 

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1445 1621 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Here's Tournament Fixer with two changes: the art is from Wailor's suggestion, and I included the word "total" in there to help eliminate confusion. No text-size adjustments were necessary, thankfully.

    Edit: Should it be a 4/3/3 like Witchwood Piper? I'm wondering if the stats are too low, meaning you're most likely to pull another copy of Tournament Fixer before anything else. At 3/3 you could tutor for larger things, like Zilliax or something.

    I'll try to work on some feedback after I finished up something IRL.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Nirast's Avatar Content Squad Snow-Covered 705 537 Posts Joined 04/01/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Got two ideas for this comp: 

    Feedback for everyone's latest card:

    Show Spoiler

    linkblade91: Looks good! It's basically Call to Adventure, but for stats and the buff is now on a stick.

    Wailor: I like Tempus Fugit more flavor-wise.

    KANSAS: I think the second wording works best. Not sure if the ability to tutor like that would make he card too strong.

    Fedrion: Why not just make it 'Gain an empty Mana Crystal'? Balance-wise, it looks fine.

    BasilAnguis: I really like the Rare version for some reason. You could call the card 'Rare Miner' or something similar. Maybe even make it from other classes.

    Arkasaur: Like the flavor. Seems balanced compared to the Rogue plant. Rarity should probably be bigger.

    BasilAnguis: I actually think this is a bit strong. A lot of Dragons are BIG, so giving them Rush means it can kill a lot of stuff. Not to mention Dragon synergy. But I also feel making it cost 2 would make it near unplayable.

    anchorm4n: Balance is good, but flavor is really off. He doesn't look lazy, and nothing about the effect says it's lazy either.

    grumpymonk: This is an interesting one! No way of knowing how strong the ability to mulligan is. 

    Demonxz95: This can be REALLY annoying! But the balance is probably fine.

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  • grumpymonk's Avatar 340 133 Posts Joined 04/02/2020
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    More feedback:

    Nirast
    I find stealth and taunt on a minion too anti-synergistic. Unless it hits face, the Taunt is useless because the minion is most likely going to die. I do like the beast quite a bit though.

    linkblade91
    I didn't think the initial art was bad but I think the card looks better with the new art.

    I think its fair to increase the cost and stats if you don't want it to draw itself, but I don't think it makes much of a difference if you leave it as is. I like it how flavorfully fits Rastakhan's flavor and power level lol.

    Wailor
    I do agree that priest does have some time-related effects, such as Temporus and Murozond the Infinite that make it a better fit in priest than in warlock. I also agree that it is better utilized in warlock than in priest, because priest has many removal spells already.

    demonxz95
    I do have another wording to consider: "Your Hero Power always summons a Taunt totem". Some people might not know that Stoneclaw Totem is the one with Taunt, and this would make it clear. It might be a bit ambiguous if there's some other non-basic taunt totem, but adding the word basic in the text would make it too wordy to fit the prompt.

    KANSAS
    Seems balanced. I think I like the second version better. If I remember correctly, this character announced legendary minions in the Blackrock Mountain adventure.

    BasilAnguis
    I find the first version of Kobold Miner a little too broad. There's a lot of jank from old sets and its likely that all three options are bad. Flavorfully, the minion is uncovering hidden objects, so uncovering a spell or even a minion doesn't really make sense. I would also buff it to a 2/2 or even a 3/2 because it is a little low on the power level.

    Arkasaur
    The synergy between the battlecry and poisonous is cute. I don't find the card all that interesting, but as a common it does the job well enough.

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1445 1621 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Nirast - The interaction between Stealth + Taunt is there for a reason, but ultimately I would never choose to lean into it unless you had a really good purpose behind it. Boastful Assassin doesn't have that. I like Hibernating Rockbeast a lot, though.

    Wailor - Roar of Time has to compete with Time Rip in Descent of Dragons, so I wouldn't place it there personally. I've wavered in both directions on this one, but I think you should stick to your guns and leave it as a Warlock card.

    KANSAS - I would stay with the second iteration, leaving off "from your deck". Not much else to say about this card that I haven't said before.

    Fedrion - Your latest versions use a third line of text, which would get you disqualified. Better fix that!

    BasilAnguis - It's neat to unearth "ancient artifacts" (i.e: weapons from the past), and it would be interesting to see how the Rogue benefits from other class Legendary weapons (finally a home for Dragon Soul? lol). I would go with the weapon version, and maybe make it a 2/2/2 or maybe even 2/3/2 (because you still have to Combo).

    Arkasaur - I will echo what the others have said, and remark on how "Poisonous" and "going face" are at odds with one another. The 3 damage is overkill if you use it on a minion, whereas using it on the enemy hero seems like a major misstep and waste of potential removal. It's different, to be sure, and I love the art, but the ultimate goal of this card seems to be strained.

    anchorm4n - Paladin really could use more weapon-synergies (to go with its 1000 other synergies lel). I like the card: it's simple (which makes sense for a Common), but with a lot of potential use-cases. Good work :)

    grumpymonk - This seems really cool, but I don't know how powerful it is. Four cards with semi-control over what you draw is a lot, but it's also an 8-mana "do nothing" otherwise. Hopefully it's fine. You could definitely win with this, IMO.

    Demonxz95 - I will echo the sentiments that "will always" sounds weird, versus something like "only summons". Beyond that, it seems good-to-go.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • DestroyerR's Avatar Design Champion 620 522 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Feedback later, maybe

     
    EDIT: Already a card LMAAAAAAO  

    Make The Cow King an alternate Warrior skin plz 

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    There seems to be more activity in this comp than the last few. That's pretty good!

    More feedback.

    Fedrion
    I know you've already submitted the card, but it's a VERY solid card and I could definitely see it making the finals.

    Arkasaur
    I think the card itself is fine. The synergy with Poisonous and the Battlecry is cute, but I feel like the card doesn't have much deliberacy. Everything on the card just feels like it just happened to be put together that way. As a card for the competition though, it'll likely get some good votes due to its interesting design.

    BasilAnguis

    I have already mentioned before about reducing the text size too much on the second version (in which, "Weapon" also should not be capitalized), which is why prompts like this are usually avoided in the first place.

    That said, I do also have a problem with the first version which is that Discovering a card based on being Rare doesn't really narrow the pool in a meaningful way. While you may know what cards you'll be able to get and which ones you can't, there isn't really anything you can try to grab from the pool. I also don't like putting "from the past" on a Common or Rare card. Perhaps we might see it on an Epic one day, but as a Common or Rare, it very much takes away from the spectacle of Toki, Time Tinker.

    And one last note, but that is definitely not a Kobold. It looks more like a humanoid raptor person.

    KANSAS

    I still stand by all the things I said about the card before, but I do think it's better as a 3/2.

    The phrasing "Draw a Legendary from your deck" feels incomplete and could come off as deliberately skimping on the rules to fit the card into the competition. While I think it's kinda cool that it can draw non-minions now, there is the chronological problem in that Legendary non-minion cards did not exist during Blackrock Mountain. This aspect would only really become meaningful in The Boomsday Project (as Quests start in your hand anyway). Minion should also not be capitalized on the second version as the word is only capitalized when it's at the start of a sentence.

    Wailor
    I do agree with Link in that it should be a Warlock card. For basically the same reason. It would be weird for Time Rip and Roar of Time to exist in the same set (and at the same rarity no less).

    Linkblade91
    I'm going to go against the grain and say that I actually preferred the previous art over the current one, although this one does feel a lot more Hearthstone-y.

    Nirast

    I do kinda like Boastful Assassin. It's flavorful and it feels like a proper dual-class card. I do believe we will eventually see a Stealth + Taunt card in the game one day, although I will agree that the general weirdness of combining the two mechanics might rub people the wrong way.

    Hibernating Rockbeast is pretty good.

    DestroyerR
    I did already mention this on Discord, but yeah, Showstopper exists and is also not very good.

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  • sinti's Avatar Global Moderator Barrens Sleuth 1850 2410 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From Arkasaur

    I'm interested to see how hard I can push a controlling poisonous minion for hunter (Also I was disappointed with FitB's lack of Wyverns!):

    Stingtail Wyvern

    This is literally Vilespine Slayer on steroids :)

    Core Set 2021 - Year of the GryphonHearthstone Mercenaries
    ~ Have an idea? Found a bug? Let us know! ~
    ~ Join us on Discord ~

    1
  • Arkasaur's Avatar Design Champion 235 38 Posts Joined 09/12/2020
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    @Demonxz95 Any thoughts on how to improve the feeling of deliberacy? Or what more generally makes a card feel deliberate?

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1445 1621 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From Arkasaur

    @Demonxz95 Any thoughts on how to improve the feeling of deliberacy? Or what more generally makes a card feel deliberate?

    I can't speak for Demon, of course, but I believe the gist is similar to what I was getting at with my review of your card. Every card should have a distinct purpose: "Why would I play this card? To do (X)." Your card has two different answers to the question, answers that are in conflict with one another. It can be neat to have varying use-cases, but "go face for damage!" and "remove a minion via Poisonous!" are not looking to achieve the same thing.

    To use Demon's phrasing, Trampling Rhino has a deliberate use-case: "smash a minion, and deal the excess to face." It wants to remove a minion and deal face damage, like your card, but the Rhino is an "and" while yours is a mutually-exclusive "or". The Rhino knows what it wants to do, while your card does not.

    ...hopefully that made sense lol. Might be overthinking it. Demon might be able to explain better.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

    1
  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From Arkasaur

    @Demonxz95 Any thoughts on how to improve the feeling of deliberacy? Or what more generally makes a card feel deliberate?

    Basically what I meant by "deliberacy" is when every piece of card feels like it was specifically put together to make the card rather than just putting a bunch of random pieces together. Admittedly, this is in many respects harder to avoid with very simple Common cards and there are probably several upon several existing cards that you could apply this line of logic to as well. Pack filler Common cards in general are prone to this since it's very easy to just slap whatever effect you want on a random body with any artwork and call it a day.

    A source of this specific card feeling this way does also come from what Link said about the card attempting to fill two completely antithetical purposes. Obviously, the Poisonous and the damage is meant to be used as a pseudo-Assassinate on a body that can possibly take another minion out by itself, but the option of dealing very specifically 3 damage to something including face goes against this since the fact that it deals 3 damage as opposed to 1 won't matter when the Poisonous effect will kill it anyway, or when you use it to hit face in which case you're not really using the effect combination for its intended purpose as well as the fact that playing it for face damage also just makes the card feel very weak.

    Hopefully you can understand what I mean since translating my thoughts into words is not always my strong suit.

    2
  • BasilAnguis's Avatar Dragon Scholar 665 261 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Demonxz95
     I have already mentioned before about reducing the text size too much on the second version (in which, "Weapon" also should not be capitalized), which is why prompts like this are usually avoided in the first place.

    That said, I do also have a problem with the first version which is that Discovering a card based on being Rare doesn't really narrow the pool in a meaningful way. While you may know what cards you'll be able to get and which ones you can't, there isn't really anything you can try to grab from the pool. I also don't like putting "from the past" on a Common or Rare card. Perhaps we might see it on an Epic one day, but as a Common or Rare, it very much takes away from the spectacle of Toki, Time Tinker.

    And one last note, but that is definitely not a Kobold. It looks more like a humanoid raptor person.

    • On the text size: yeah probably. I don't have much time to tinker with it and the font size is not that bad so i just left it as is.
    • First version wasn't meant for you to get any specific card, just get a generally low or medium value card with a bit of flair.
    • Toki is such a bad card that i highly doubt anyone cares about her losing her spectacle. Also we had a lot of cases of legendaries being overtaken by commons and rares (Princess Huhuran Play Dead Terrorscale Stalker)
    • This may be just personal taste but that is a kobold. Kobolds are reptilian. Just type kobold in google images and see what pops up. Hearthstone and Wow have weird ugly ass gremlins and they call them kobolds but in every other fantasy universe they are reptilian. And that is one of the closes images i found to a wow kobold (miner, candle helmet and all) without it looking like a hairless deformed rat whose snout got stung by a bee and swollen.

    I'll boop you 

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