Built To Scale - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

  • ShadowsOfSense's Avatar Community Manager Buried Alive 1325 920 Posts Joined 10/23/2018
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago


    Competition Theme: Built To Scale

    We're looking for cards that just keep on getting better the more you look at them this time!


    Arkasaur wants us to keep things scaly this week - no, not that way! 

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.


    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 31 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, Jun 5 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Jun 5 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, Jun 6 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Jun 6 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, Jun 7 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

    Welcome to the site!

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  • Nirast's Avatar Content Squad Snow-Covered 705 537 Posts Joined 04/01/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    First two ideas, on opposite ends of the spectrum. The first uses art from one of Dr. Boom, Mad Genius's Hero Powers, the second doesn't really fit Warrior.

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 410 370 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    First couple of ideas. Not sure if they're balanced, since it's pretty hard to tell with exponential effects.

    BTW is Spell Damage still a thing in Shaman? I know they removed Wrath of Air Totem from the Hero Power, so I'm not sure if the first card is fine in terms of class identity.

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  • HuntardHuntard's Avatar Mailbox Dancer 600 384 Posts Joined 12/03/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Wailor

    First couple of ideas. Not sure if they're balanced, since it's pretty hard to tell with exponential effects.

    BTW is Spell Damage still a thing in Shaman? I know they removed Wrath of Air Totem from the Hero Power, so I'm not sure if the first card is fine in terms of class identity.

    Spell damage is still a thing in Shaman. There are 2-3 different cards that give spell damage, one of which is in the core set. I personally think these cards are very weak. Spell damage cards do not stay on the board for long enough for you to get enough to take advantage of Maelstrom Harbringer's effect, and the DH archetypes that could take advantage of that card have better cards to slot in

    Your face is already dead

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar The Cake Is A Lie 1590 1684 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Finally I get an opportunity to show you a card I've been sitting on for ages:

     

    It's basically a Meteorologist for your opponent's hand and punishes Control decks. I'm not yet sure if I want it to be able to go face, what do you think?

    I've also made a more fun-oriented card with C'Thun 3.0. Rogue would love this and it might also find a place in Wild Battlecry Shaman or that crazy Miracle Priest that discovers itself to death.

    I'll add feedback later, when some more cards have been added to the thread.

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • NebuchadnezzarHS's Avatar Face Collector 1430 764 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Just checking to be sure, there is no penalty for using a well-known anime image and perhaps even the name for my card right? Or does it have to be Hearthstone or WoW specific? As long as I manage to follow this weeks competition theme, it should be okay I think?

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From NebuchadnezzarHS

    Just checking to be sure, there is no penalty for using a well-known anime image and perhaps even the name for my card right? Or does it have to be Hearthstone or WoW specific? As long as I manage to follow this weeks competition theme, it should be okay I think?

    Some people might penalize you for blatantly using a non WoW-IP in a place where it doesn't belong, but your card won't be disqualified for it

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Took a while to think of something I liked, but I've finally got it. Specifics can still be tweaked, but I'm quite fond of the scaling condition.

    Feedback

    Nirast

    Get Ready for the Boom! is a bit strange with Dr. Boom's Scheme in the same set, although the latter is one of the worst cards ever made, so I wouldn't necessarily blame you for refusing to acknowledge its existence, though quite a few people will. I feel like announcing that you're using used art is also a bit counterproductive.

    Exponential Explosion is flavorful, though you are right that it doesn't fit Warrior. Not to mention potentially too strong. You can deal 32 damage with this card if your opponent has 6 Bombs in their deck (or 5 Bombs and use both copies of this). You also seem to be forgetting the watermark and rarity, although I can let it slide here given that the card feels more like a proof of concept.

    Wailor

    Spell Damage is absolutely still a thing in Shaman. There are lots of Shaman cards that are related to Spell Damage in some way. The reason Wrath of Air Totem was removed was to allow them to make Spell Damage synergies in Shaman without making it a highroll and because according to Blizzard, it's by far the worst Totem in some Shaman decks, and by far the best Totem in some other Shaman decks. Though I argue that since Searing Totem is always the worst Totem in every circumstance, we should remove that too and keep Wrath of Air Totem.

    While specific stat balancing might use some tweaking (as I agree with HuntardHuntard that both of these cards are fairly weak), the concept behind them is quite solid. I personally prefer Maelstorm Harbinger myself.

    Anchorm4n

    I quite like Pyrotechnician! I don't particularly mind which version you go with myself since they are both pretty solid cards. The version able to hit face might be a bit too powerful if you're playing against a Control deck with a large hand and an empty board, though such situation may be niche enough to balance the card.

    C'Thun, the Insatiable is actually C'Thun 4.0 (Mecha'thun cries in the corner). I think the proper wording of the card is "For each card you've played this game, deal 1 damage randomly split among all enemies.". Certain decks do have the potential to scale this up pretty high and pretty quickly, although I don't think that'll be a problem.

    I personally prefer Pyrotechnician myself.

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  • NebuchadnezzarHS's Avatar Face Collector 1430 764 Posts Joined 06/14/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    In that case, I would participate with a handicap, hmm... best not do that if I want to win then. Better safe than sorry I guess.

    By the way, I wonder how to precisely define whether or not something belongs to Hearthstone or WoW. To take a brief sidestep looking at MTG, I was kind of surprised when they decided to release the Kamigawa expansion way back when which included lots of Japanese folklore. Something similar could happen in WoW (or perhaps already did happen), I am not really familiar with the complete WoW lore besides bits and pieces ported into Hearthstone. The anime image and name I intended to use is related to Naruto and also references Japanese folklore quite a lot (the main protagonist is a freaking ninja anyways), but since it was popularized in the anime, some people might not know about its true origin.

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 410 370 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Still deciding which stat line should I go with my cards. I was thinking about 4/4/4 for the Stitched Monstrosity, to make it more combinable with other cards and make a slight callback to Abomination. Not sure about the Maelstrom Harbringer (which I'll probably go with), however. 3/5 maybe? 3/6 seems too much.

    Anyway, early feedback while I decide what to do.

    Nirast
    I think I prefer Get Ready for the Boom!, purely because Exponential Explosion seems too dangerous. You should definetly change the artwork, though.

    anchorm4n
    I agree with Demonxz95, Pyrotechnician is awesome. If anything, it seems too strong compared to Meteorologist, but I don't think that card is probably overcosted.

    Demonxz95
    The effect is quite original and the flavor is pretty appropriate, which isn't easy considering how abstract it is. I think it lacks simplicity, however, but that might just be me.

    NebuchadnezzarHS
    It's not that Japanese folklore would feel out of place in Hearthstone, it's the anime artstyle. Even art which is pretty close to Hearthstone like MTG tends to do worse in comps. If you want to go with this route, check out the Pandaren race (they have ninjas)

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  • ChickyChick's Avatar Fan Creator 390 123 Posts Joined 06/18/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Hello, hello, hello!

    @Nirast

    Show Spoiler
    Get Ready for the Boom! looks less dangerous, I'd go with that. Not sure if it necessarily needs art change, considering the usage for this art is Hero Power, but it may be good idea.

    @Wailor

    Show Spoiler
    I definetely prefer shaman card, it's kinda cool. The other one is a bit more boring, and big minion synergising with small minions may not be realy good. Not sure about balance, if you plan to buff it I'd go with 3/5 or 2/6, or, eventualy, 3 Mana 2/4, though I feel like Shaman has too many 3-drops.

    @anchorm4n

    Show Spoiler
    I prefer the Pyrotechnician that may hit face, but that may be personal preference, because both are properly made cards. When I think about it, I like Cthun more, but it may scare off some voters, so it may not be the better choice.

    @Demonxz95

    Show Spoiler
    Looks ok to me, maybe a bit too narrow.

    Ok

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  • grumpymonk's Avatar 340 133 Posts Joined 04/02/2020
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    I'm not sure this counts as a scaleable effect? It does get better the more beasts you control.

    I also have this, which I think definitely fits the prompt.

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  • BasilAnguis's Avatar Dragon Scholar 665 261 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    By default you draw 1 card, as the enemy drew 1 at the start of their turn.

    I'll boop you 

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1445 1621 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    It originally said "during your opponent's last turn", to avoid any potential abuse from your own current turn, but I don't know if that's too much of a problem. I could always up it to 6 or something; this iteration uses less words.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Arkasaur's Avatar Design Champion 235 38 Posts Joined 09/12/2020
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Hi everyone,

    I think I'll just stick to providing feedback this week.

    @Nirast

    Show Spoiler

    Get ready for the boom - might create a fairly unfun experience – bomb warrior wasn’t exactly the most engaging thing to play against, but at least you could rush them down, and this would make that option a fair bit less reliable if they consistently get 3+ bombs into your deck. Maybe having it scale linearly with the number of bombs might be alright, but might be too weak that way.

    Exponential Explosion – Damaging spells that can hit the enemy hero isn’t really something that warrior does right now, so I’d probably limit this to a minion-only target and rework the cost.

    @Wailor

    Show Spoiler
    I like Maelstron Harbinger, its an interesting design. I don’t think the scaling with spell damage is very strong since its so reliant on keeping spell damage minions on the board. I’d suggest making it a 3/5 at base since the scaling effect is fairly difficult to make use of consistently, and provides a nice power spike when you do.

    @anchorm4n

    Show Spoiler
    Pyrotechnician should stick to minions only, as this could easily be a 3 mana 3/2 deal 4-6 damage to the enemy in some matchups. I personally find the C’thun less interesting, but it seems like it would be about as strong as C'Thun, the Shattered.

    @Demonxz95

    Show Spoiler
    I think you could word this “…for each duplicate card you’ve played this game” to shorten it slightly. Otherwise I think its probably balanced since it takes some work to get to a high number and you’d probably rather just swing the board on turn 6, which makes the condition a bit tricky to pull off.

    @grumpymonk

    Show Spoiler
    Im not sure that Nathanos would count. Shadow illusions is cool and I really like the idea, but way too strong at 4 mana – cheating down Plagued Protodrake etc. that easily is strong, and both classes have a couple ways to easily draw those high-value deathrattles. Remember deathrattle rogue with Necrium Apothecary? This is less setup than that with possibly greater payoff

    @BasilAnguis

    Show Spoiler
    Reminds me somewhat of Divine Favor. Its probably balanced at 2 mana since its more situational. I’d just name it "Counterintelligence," the “SI:7” doesn’t really add much to describe the card and it will make it look a little nicer as the text size wont be as reduced.

    @Linkblade91

    Show Spoiler
    I think this effect might just be too feast or famine – most of the time just sort of bad, and then sometimes broken after a damage based AoE. Maybe to keep the idea/flavour look into something that grants Armor for each damaged minion or damaged character?

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar The Cake Is A Lie 1590 1684 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Thanks for all your feedback so far! I'll go with Pyrotechnician, but I'm still debating if it should go face or not. It is meant to punish Control or Combo decks that accumulate a lot of cards in their hand, so it is an Aggro card by definition and that's a strong point for potential face damage. Nevertheless, I see that playing this on curve on an empty board is a very strong play. Maybe raising the Cost would be a solution, but I don't feel comfortable with that right now.

    Here's some feedback for y'all while I'm trying to make up my mind:

    linkblade
    I agree with Arkasaur, it's in a strange place between useless and OP. I also second to go with the established Warrior thing of basing the condition on damaged minions. Something like "Gain 2 Armor for each damaged friendly minion." should do the trick. Way less complicated, but it keeps the flavor and could be quite useful .

    BasilAnguis
    That's a quite flavorful card, I like it. The one thing I'd change is the text flow, to avoid the "orphan" in the third line.

    grumpymonk
    Both cards are quite cool ideas. Shadow Illusions is probably more interesting, but also very strong. It's basically Zerek's Cloning Gallery for your hand and that's obviously a legendary that costs five (!) more Mana. You might also loose some points due to the fact that Rogue/Priest isn't an established combination of classes, but I have to say it fits like a glove in this case. So yeah, Shadow Illusions is the more exciting card to go with, but I think it needs some tweaking.

    Demon
    Nice idea! I'm a bit surprised it doesn't have the watermark from your Time Traveller class, it looks like it would be a nice fit for it. There are a few interesting aspects about your card, like it discourages you to use it in Highlander decks or lists with a lot of other legendarys. I could see this in a Wild Quest Mage deck. If you build your deck around it, it might even be a finisher instead of a board clear. Neat!

    Wailor
    I agree with the others that Maelstrom Harbringer is the better of the two. That swarm Demon Hunter thing never really took off. A 3/5 statline sounds good to me. It's interesting, flexible and a solid play even without a Spell Damage buff. I'm no native speaker, but shouldn't it be "Harbinger" instead of "Harbringer" (Fire Plume Harbinger, Harbinger Celestia)?

    Nirast
    I also prefer Get Ready for the Boom! because a direct damage spell doesn't fit Warrior very well. You might want to tune it down a bit, since giving Bomb Warrior such a strong survival card might be a bit too much. I'd also look for different art.

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1445 1621 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Significantly less complicated, but I'm worried it might be too boring (and maybe it should cost 3?):

    I'll have feedback up later today, hopefully.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 410 370 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    I've already submited my card with a 3/5 statline. Thanks to everyone, especially to anchorm4n for the ortography tip (I've been writing Harbringer my whole life, hopefully I'll remember the correct spelling from now on).

    Anyways, more feedback.

    Nirast
    I know I already gave you feedback, but I think Exponential Explosion would be cool if you change it to target all enemy minions. Would fit Warrior and wouldn't have a dangerous OTK potential. Not sure about the cost, though.

    grumpymonk
    Both are fine, if their effect is considered scaling. I think I'd go with Nathanos Blighcaller, purely because Shadow Illusions feels a bit too dangerous (even if it really fits both Priest and Rogue very well).

    BasilAnguis
    Nice effect and flavor, indeed. Besides the orphan line thing, I think I'd change the name to just Counterintelligence, IMO.

    linkblade91
    I'd probably go with the rare version. The epic one is more interesting, but it's so hard to tell if it's balanced that it might end costing you some points.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    Time for more feedback.

    Grumpymonk

    Nathanos is a very creative way to interpret "scaling" to say the least. If it were up to me, I would say that it would count. But it's not up to me, and I'm not sure what the official judgement is. I think the effect is pretty interesting though.

    Shadow Illusions is cool in theory, but it can become extremely powerful fairly easily.

    BasilAnguis
    I agree with everyone in that it should just be named Counterintilligence. I think the card is really flavorful, but I am concerned on the fact that it borders on the line of being a class tech card.

    Linkblade91
    I definitely prefer the second one because it's a lot easier to judge in terms of general balance and is a lot easier to figure out what it's going to do in gameplay. I do believe it could cost 3 mana though.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Crossroads Historian 1760 1893 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 4 months, 2 weeks ago

    I feel the need to point this out since this is the second competition in a row to feature a card called Scale Up! and use the artwork from Anyfin Can Happen.

    Now, I get it. Not everyone has an encyclopedic knowledge of every artwork in the game that is used, but do avoid using artwork for your cards that is already featured on cards accessible via collectable cards. The general rule of thumb is that artwork found on cards that can only be seen outside of Ranked mode is fair game, but artwork that can be found on cards accessible in Ranked mode isn't.

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