That Sinking Feeling - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

  • ShadowsOfSense's Avatar Senior Moderator Buried Alive 1490 1094 Posts Joined 10/23/2018
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago


    Competition Theme: That Sinking Feeling

    It's time to alter the depths in a different way - instead of taking, we'll give instead!

    • You must create a card which puts something on the bottom of your deck
      • Last week we were Dredging cards up - this week we're putting some stuff back!
    • Your card cannot put a Sunken version of itself on the bottom

    BloodMefist has asked us to complement last week's theme - so start throwing some treasures into the depths of your decks!

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.


    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 2 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 7 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 7 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 8 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 8 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 9 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

    Welcome to the site!

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Little Devil Teemo 2110 2109 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    Heh, I had a new Time Traveler card I could retool for the competition. My first inclination is to say either Paladin or Warrior (and adjust the art and flavor accordingly).

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 540 531 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    First ideas.

    I prefer That's Bait, but I'm not sure if it qualifies. You could say that, if your bottom card isn't a minion, it summons the "deepest" minion, but always puts the deceased one at the bottom... Maybe a bit convoluted, dunno.

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1560 1911 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    Exploratory Mission is a Secret that provides more fuel for a deck, giving you a big Mech you can Dredge up or use in combination with Radar Detector. The idea of the flavor is that you spot an interesting looking minion, and send the sub to investigate.

    It's The Big One! also provides fuel, but you have only 3 turns to catch the Beast before it escapes from your deck :D

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • AeroJulwin's Avatar Fan Creator 260 96 Posts Joined 07/08/2021
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    Solve the puzzle and it will lead you to treasure! Ancient Relics are such a cool addition, it's a shame there's only one card that generates them.

    I originally wanted to make it a Mage card, but some Ancient Relics are quite spell-oriented and since Mage's only Dredge card is for Mechs, I decided Priest works better.

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  • LarryMoments's Avatar Design Finalist 250 26 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago



    (Still trying to find a better art, it's hard.)

    Someone will definitely have to go to the main room to activate the shield mechanisms. Not him though, he's the one piloting.

    It's mainly spired by Frozen Buckler, though with a few elements that I still feel that need some refining. It's "Drawn on Dredge" Mechanic means that you need someone to forcefully find it when you most need it without requiring to draw a card since... you have found it on the sinking submarine, what takes so long to push it anyways to save tens of lives? (yours, mainly)

    If I can't find better art I'll just use a submarine, probably.

    "From break and ruin, the most beautiful performance begins"

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  • Arkasaur's Avatar Design Champion 250 44 Posts Joined 09/12/2020
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    Hey everyone,

    Been a while since I've entered a comp but I'm back! I've got two ideas at the moment:

    Shadow Word: DrownVengeful Retreat

    Shadow Word: Drown - I'm not sure if this will count for the competition since it puts something on the bottom of your opponent's deck. I figured Bootstrap Sunkeneer was atleast in the spirit of the competition. Balance-wise its sort of a Star Student Stelina without the body, and x2 copies in a deck and would give priest a reliable way to delay other deck's strong turns.

    Vengeful Retreat - A mix between Shadowstep and Grimoire of Sacrifice. Would let Demon hunter try to re-use some strong battlecries like Talented Arcanist or Coilskar Commander, but require a little bit of work (dredging, shuffling or tutoring) to do so.

     

    Feedback:

    Show Spoiler

    Demonxz95 - I think shaman would be a good fit, obviously for the elemental tag but also they previously had Bog Slosher with a similar idea.

    Wailor - I also prefer 'That's Bait' but you're right that it could be a bit confusing. Maybe uncoupling the effect would work? eg. "… Put it on the bottom of your deck and summon a Beast that costs more".

    linkblade91 - I like It's the Big One, creates an interesting gameplay decision for the player - "can i afford to dredge for the minion this/next turn?". 

    AeroJulwin - This is a bit weird being a Priest weapon with an attack value. Maybe this would be better as a minion? or possibly 0-attack with some trigger to use durability. 

    LarryMoments - Emergency Defenses might be too swingy. Can range between nearly useless and 1 mana cloak of shadows. Making it a decent static value but cost a little more might make it a less polarized effect.

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  • Neoguli's Avatar Duskrider 855 539 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    Some loose ideas. Recycler gives Spare Parts a payoff (I kind of wish HS was not restricted heavily towards 4 lines of text, though - would make for a spicier effect), while Kolrax makes Azari, the Devourer viable in modern HS.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

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  • MrRhapsody's Avatar Child of the Night 770 110 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Here's my ideas for this week:

    Sunken Fortune is self explanatory I think, I was thinking about making it shuffle the Coins in your opponent's deck and give you the coins when drawn instead, but I'm really not sure about it.

    And Pressure Exchan'ge is supose to illustrate the idea of a sudden water pressure exchange which makes the minion "pop up", represented by the Deathrattle triggering.

    Back feeding time:

    Show Spoiler

    Demon: I agree with Arkasaur, that card the way it is now screams Shaman for some reason, maybe the blue frame is influencing me a bit, thought I can see it fitting in a lot of others classes with the right adjustments, I don't think its necessary, but it is something to think about. And about the card itself, it's pretty neat!

    Wailor: Dude, That's Bait is AMAZING! I really hope it qualifies the way it now, but if it somehow doesn't, you should make some adjustments until it fits.

    Linkblade: Not a fan of Exploratory Mission TBH, but It's the Big One! is pretty cool! The text can be a bit consufusing thought, I think it's better to sacrifice flavour in order to make text easier to understand.

    AeroJulwin: Flavour wise your card is a 5/5, but mechanic wise it is quite weird. Ancient Relics weren't that good even when them came out, and nowadays days they manage to be worse. Also, not a fan by the fact you're ment to attack with it to solve the puzzle, it just feels wrong, specially as a Priest card. My suggestion is to change the condition to break the durability and reduce the Ancient Relics costs, something like "Whenever you cast a spell, lose a durability. Deathrattle: Put a random Ancient Relic on the bottom of your deck, they costs (3) less." or something along these lines.

    LarryMoments: That's a neat card, but I think the Emergency Defences should be simplified somehow, it seens to be trying to hard to be innovative the way it is now. And about the artwork, I searched for some fitting art for you, see if you like any of them. Just click in the Spoilers to see them.

    Show Spoiler

    Browsing Hearthstone Goblins vs. Gnomes on DeviantArt | Warcraft art,  Character art, Concept art charactersArtStation - Goblins vs Gnomes Contest - All aboard !酒馆战棋/海底上尉库拉格- 炉石传说wiki(ifindhs)

     

    Arkasaur: Vengeful Retreat is nice but Shadow Word: Drown is Awesome! It could use some balance changes problably, but it is still a 5/5.

    Neoguli: Spare Recycler is weird, but Kolrax the Voidseal is pretty cool! I'm problably biased by my Warlock "fanboyism", but still, that's my honest opinion. And if you choose to go with Kolrax, you should clarify what "The First Seal" is in the description, not everyone will remember Rin was a card. And also, I think you should remove the Kobolds watermark since that set already has Rin.

    Do you also like Elden Ring? Then you should check out my Elden Ring inspired Duels Heroes!

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 540 531 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Feedback:

    Demonxz95
    I think Warrior would be the most appropriate class. The effect feels a lot like Akali, the Rhino (in a good way).

    About the card itself, it's fine, but maybe a bit too bland. However, you can make up for it if you find a good flavor for it.

    linkblade91
    Both cards are pretty cool and flavorful, my two favorites so far. I think I'd give the edge to Exploratory Mission, because of its many sinergies. As a minor nitpick, I would probably drop the pun in the token name, doesn't mesh well with the overall card, if that makes any sense.

    Regarding It's The Big One, it has a very cool flavor (even better than the other card), but I don't think it's as interesting from a gameplay perspective. Also, I don't know if I'm very dim today, but I had to read its text several times before understanting how it works.

    AeroJulwin
    My main criticism is that this card breaks class identity. I'd probably put it in Shaman, which has both weapons and a "mystical" flavor like Mage and Priest have. Still, it's a bit strange to have a talisman of sorts as an attacking weapon, but…

    LarryMoments
    The flavor is good, but the implementation is a bit akward. Not sure how to fix it while still fulfilling the comp's requirements. Also, the artwork for the main card is a bit bad, but I understand it's hard to find good art for such a specific flavor.

    Arkasaur
    Shadow Word: Drown is my favorite of the two, and probably my third fav card so far after the two linkblade proposed. It might be a bit too disruptive for some people, though. (I was going to complain about it being a Shadow Word that doesn't destroy minions, but then I remembered Shadow Word: Devour exists xD)

    Vengeful Retreat isn't bad, but it's two effects seem a bit too disconnected.

    Neoguli
    I really like the idea of making cards for other expansions, but both of your cards have some issues, unfortunatelly.

    Spare Recycler has the issue of being a better version of Spider Tank, which is also from GvG. This could be fixed by making this minion a 2 mana 2/3. Even then, Spare Parts were too weak for this to have a major impact (although it's probably fine because the design philosophy back then was very different).

    Kolrax, on the other hand, seems to be a replacement for Rin, the First Disciple, but seems weaker than her. Sure, he has vanilla stats and can be played two turns earlier, but the card going to the bottom of your deck instead of your hand is a major downgrade (especially during the 4 years this would've existed until Sunken City was released).

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  • AeroJulwin's Avatar Fan Creator 260 96 Posts Joined 07/08/2021
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Making Ancient Puzzle a Shaman card is a good idea. MrRhapsody's phrasing is also nice, but I think casting X spells as a requirement makes it too similar to Queen Azshara. (I think you confused it with some other treasures, so I'll make sure to explain it in the submission description).

    This is the only solution I could find that feels right. It even supports a currently unused archetype. Of course, Sidequests and Ancient Relics being from different expansions is a problem. Honestly, I'm quite happy with it, so it's worth it to me.

    Feedback soon!

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar Content Squad Little Devil Teemo 2110 2109 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    I've got some versions for Shaman and Warrior. The blue border and Elemental probably screamed Shaman.

    Now for some feedback.

    Wailor

    Lady Vude'ja has an effect that I think is a groundwork for a pretty good idea, but under its current execution, it seems too slow. It is reliant on Dredging a lot and then waiting.

    That's Bait is pretty funny, though one think I sorta don't like is the unpredictable nature of it. The bottom-most minion in your deck could be a little 2/2, or it could be something like King Krush or some other large Beast. Granted, I do think you'd probably build a deck around it only cheating out large Beasts where the speed in which the effect activates would be more manageable and the unpredictability aspect of it is lessened. I'd say I probably prefer it over Vude'ja.

    Linkblade91

    Exploratory Mission is a cool Secret (don't tell Sinti I said that) that makes a cool use of design space that I haven't seen used on Secrets before. The Subpurrsible is probably too weak as a 7 mana 7/7. I would say to reduce the Cost, but the actual amount would be unintuitive if you can't explain it on the card.

    I admire how creative you got with the flavor wording of It's The Big One! The problem though is that I literally cannot figure out what the card does because of it.

    AeroJulwin
    I think the effect is pretty sound, but you're probably going to get a lot of eyebrows for giving Priest an attacking weapon. Flavorfully you're also not really supposed to attack with a puzzle to solve it (unless you're really tough). I prefer your Shaman version, though you are right in that Sidequests appearing in VttSC does bother me a bit.

    A non-Legendary way to generate the Relics is also a bit off-putting to me.

    LarryMoments
    I like the flavor and the token. My main criticism is what MrRhapsody said about the art.

    Arkasaur

    Shadow Word: Drown sort of shows a perspective of how bad Star Student Stelina was. It's a cool piece of disruption that's in the spirit of the set, although it being much more usable and impactful than Stelina does make me question its power level a bit.

    Vengeful Retreat is fine. I'm not sure if this was intentional or not, but a part I do like is that you can cast it on a useless token that you don't care about, and the downside is pretty negligible. Seems like an equally valid method as using it on something you want and Dredging it again.

    A criticism I do have about both cards though is that their artworks don't really feel like VttSC cards to me.

    Neoguli

    Spare Recycler is "cute", but it seems to be made up of a big stew of anachronism. It's a GvG card, but it uses a mechanic that didn't exist until K&C (keeping enchantments), and another that can't really be utilized well until VttSC (going to the bottom of the deck). It doesn't feel like a GvG card to me. As Wailor pointed out, it is also existing in the same set as Spider Tank, and just having a bunch of Spare Part enchantments doesn't make it an exciting card to get again since the upgrades are going to be incredibly minor, and it also requires you cast a shitload of Spare Parts on specifically it and nothing else to make it a threat.

    I'm afraid I'm not really too big of Kol'rax the Voidseal either. Putting The First Seal on the bottom of the deck means that by the time you draw it, your opponent's deck will be either empty of almost empty, effectively rendering Azari, the Devourer worthless when there's no deck for him to destroy.

    MrRhapsody

    Sunken Fortune is extremely flavorful, but it doesn't seem particularly useful to me in a lot of cases. I feel like Coins are probably not things you want to Dredge most of the time, and being cast when drawn also means you're force to make use of it that turn or the effect is wasted. It's also not very good in the late-game since you can't have more than 10 Mana Crystals, making the effect wasted since you're also going to draw the card that you probably would've drawn anyway if there were no Coins there. If it was a token that added Coins to your hand that was cast when drawn, I think it'd be a lot better.

    Pressure Exchange is sort of a cool Deathrattle Warlock support card. I think it's flavorful.

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Lissandra 1560 1911 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    How's this for an updated version of It's The Big One!? Now the Beast is guaranteed to be Legendary - as it should be, in my opinion - and I've clarified the 3 turns thing a little better as-to what you need to do (draw it or summon it).

    Not sure yet how to cut the Cost of Exploratory Mission's Sub to make it the 4/7/7 meme it dreams of being lol. Feedback will probably be tomorrow on my day off; pretty tired from work.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • AeroJulwin's Avatar Fan Creator 260 96 Posts Joined 07/08/2021
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Feedback

    Demonxz95
    As much as I love the Elemental art, I think the Rush effect makes a little more sense for Warrior and Naga also fits the expansion better.

    Wailor
    I feel like Lady Vude'ja doesn't really need to put the spells at the bottom of your deck (compared to simply shuffling them in), which makes it a little boring for this prompt. If you do want to go with her, you should probably have it reduce the cost of the spells.

    That's Bait is the more interesting option. It is clearly designed to cheat out Sunken Saber. But I think its effect is too strong.

    linkblade91
    I really like both, because they synergize very well with the new cards, but I do find a few issues with them. Exploratory Mission doesn't seem like it should be a Secret. Sure, we have Rigged Faire Game, but Exploratory Mission doesn't even affect your hand. Also, the Mech could use an upgrade/cost reduction since it's effectively a Sunken card.

    It's The Big One is very fun flavor-wise, but functionally the extra effect feels a bit unnecessary. All it does is force you to play it the same turn you Dredge, or make sure you have the opportunity to the next few turns, which isn't a big deal for a 1-Cost.

    LarryMoments
    I like it. It's both flavorful and effective. Simplifying Emergency Defenses isn't a bad idea. Currently it seems like it could be a card on it's own.

    Arkasaur
    I like Shadow Weird: Drown best, although I am going to complain about it being a Shadow Word that doesn't affect minions. Vengeful Retreat just doesn't feel all that useful.

    Neoguli
    Spare Recycler doesn't seem very interesting since it can't be Dredged up until years later. Kolrax the Voidseal is pretty cool.

    MrRhapsody
    Sunken Fortune doesn't seem like it has a lot of value, since each coin needs to be Dredged up separately.

    Pressure Exchange has more potential. Being able to Dredge the minion back up is nice, although not very strong compared to Sunken cards. And I'm wondering whether there's a lot of minions that would be worth losing their body to trigger their Deathrattle early.

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  • SkeithDE's Avatar Fan Creator 235 13 Posts Joined 02/25/2021
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    This was my idea. I liked the idea of a different type of rogue thieving. Cost might be low, but I felt 4 was too high so I added the increase of cost on the stolen card.

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  • MrRhapsody's Avatar Child of the Night 770 110 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From AeroJulwin

    Making Ancient Puzzle a Shaman card is a good idea. MrRhapsody's phrasing is also nice, but I think casting X spells as a requirement makes it too similar to Queen Azshara. (I think you confused it with some other treasures, so I'll make sure to explain it in the submission description).

    Bruuuuuh, I'm sorry, I had a brain fart and tought that Ancient Relics were the cards given by OG Rafaam, that art just screamed League of Explorers for me for some reason. Allow me to do another feedback them.

    The card the way it is now is pretty awesome! However, mixing mechanics from different expansions when it is not asked from the competition has proven to be problematic in the past, so I don't recommend you to bring sidequests back. I think you should mix the original idea and the new one to make a new card, something like a 3/0/3 Shaman weapon with "Whenever you cast a spell from a different school, lose a Durability. Deathrattle: Put a random Ancient Relic on the bottom of your deck", or maybe " Whenever you cast a spell from a different school, put a random Ancient Relic on the bottom of your deck and lose a durability".

    Do you also like Elden Ring? Then you should check out my Elden Ring inspired Duels Heroes!

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  • LarryMoments's Avatar Design Finalist 250 26 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Alright, listened to feedback and made 3 different versions of Emergency Defenses just to see which version is the best for this. (And ig the other one on my post also counts)
    That, and new art for the Captain which I thank Rhap for,


    I'll do feedback once I get out of class or tomorrow, I'm somewhat busy with college.

    "From break and ruin, the most beautiful performance begins"

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  • Wailor's Avatar Design Champion 540 531 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Thanks to the feedback, I realised some issues with both my cards, so I made a new version of both of them.

    Coiling Chronomancer's effect has less value than her previous version, but at the same time, is way less clunky. I think the best comparison would be Commander Sivara: it requires less setup, but it gives you only one card and you still have to draw it. Not sure if it's a bit too weak, though.

    Marine Manipulator, on the other hand, isn't as cool as its previous Secret form, but it was way too dangerous as a 2 Mana card. I wonder if it would make more sense as a Neutral in its current form...


    Anyway, more feedback:

    MrRhapsody
    Sunken Fortune would make more sense gameplay-wise if it just shuffled the coins instead of sinking them, but then it wouldn't qualify for this comp.

    Pressure Exchange would make more sense in a class with Deathrattles, so I'd probably make it Priest or Rogue (the flavor doesn't fit Hunter). Also, I'm afraid it's a bit too weak right now. Compared to Play Dead, the cost of sinking your minion seems a higher price to pay than 1 Mana. Finally, the name isn't very obvious at first glance, so something like Sudden Drowning might work better, at least for me.

    All in all, I think I prefer Pressure Exchange, but I think it's not without flaws.

    AeroJulwin
    The new implementation is fine, but I agree with MrRhapsody's take about Sidequests. His suggestion about making it a 0/3 weapon seems the best way to implement an effect like this, IMO.

    Demonxz95
    Both versions make sense, but I like the Warrior one a bit more.

    linkblade91
    I like the new version of It's The Big One, it's better than the previous one. As a super minor nitpick (yet again, sorry), I'd make it an Epic card, considering the minion it generates is a Legendary.

    SkeithDE
    I'd probably make it a minion (4 Mana 4/3 without the cost reduction, for instance). As a spell, I think effects like this are too dangerous to be cheap and too unimpactful to be more expensive. So, making them more expensive but also bring a body is the best way to implement them.

    LarryMoments
    The new art is definetly an improvement. As for the effect of the button, I think the 1 Mana version is my favorite.

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  • SkeithDE's Avatar Fan Creator 235 13 Posts Joined 02/25/2021
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Wailor, I made a minion version of it like you suggested. This definitely feels more solid as a card.

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  • Cheese's Avatar 270 160 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 1 month, 3 weeks ago

    Bomb

    Counter to Dredge and fatigue strategies.

    (FYI I was the one to post it as a 3/3 on hcards a few days ago)

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