Double Identity - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

  • ShadowsOfSense's Avatar
    Senior Moderator Buried Alive 1490 1085 Posts Joined 10/23/2018
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago


    Competition Theme: Double Identity

    We've a lot of classes in need of help at the minute, so it's time to put some heroes on double shifts!

    • You must create a Dual Class Hero Card
      • It's as simple as that! You can combine whatever two classes you like - don't feel beholden to the pairings we saw in Scholomance.

    MrRhapsody is looking for some cards which really bridge the gap between classes this week - it'll take a heroic effort to satisfy them!

    As always, I can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.


    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, May 9 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sat, May 14 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, May 14 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Sun, May 15 16:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, May 15 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400). Runs until Mon, May 16 17:00 EDT (GMT -0400)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

    Welcome to the site!

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator Lissandra 1550 1869 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Show Spoiler

    Going a different direction; not happy with my Felfire Ragnaros. I'll keep it in the above spoiler, as per Wailor's suggestion.

    A Hero card with multi-targeting! Both Warlock and Warrior have been known to sacrifice their minions in the pursuit of victory, whether directly via Dark Pact or as a consequence of something else like Brawl. They've both dabbled with Carnivorous Cube, as well. Rebuild wants you to kill off specific minions so you can try to revive something chunky, so a Big Demon Warlock deck or a Big Warrior might be a good idea.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 500 499 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Simple prompt, but quite hard honestly. Here's my first take on it.

    I'm assuming the Battlecry takes place after the armor gain, so at least he always gains +5 Attack. The Hero Power makes use of two keywords which both Warrior and Druid usually make use of.

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator Lissandra 1550 1869 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From Wailor

    @linkblade I feel like this has too much face potential. I don't know how to fix it, since restricting either the weapon or the HP to only affect minions feels kinda bad.

    No worries: I deleted Felfire Ragnaros and edited in a different card in its place lol.

    I could see your card featured in some silly OTK involving the Linecracker 2000+ Armor combo, plus Silas Darkmoon and Soulbound Ashtongue haha. Why wait them out when you can inflict 2000+ damage to their face and just end things :D

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 500 499 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From linkblade91

    No worries: I deleted Felfire Ragnaros and edited in a different card in its place lol.

    I could see your card featured in some silly OTK involving the Linecracker 2000+ Armor combo, plus Silas Darkmoon and Soulbound Ashtongue haha. Why wait them out when you can inflict 2000+ damage to their face and just end things :D

    I still think you should include Fel Rag in spoiler, at least. It wasn't a bad card, even if I prefer your new one.

    As for the OTK, wouldn't something like Shield Slam still do the trick?

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator Lissandra 1550 1869 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From Wailor
    Quote From linkblade91

    No worries: I deleted Felfire Ragnaros and edited in a different card in its place lol.

    I could see your card featured in some silly OTK involving the Linecracker 2000+ Armor combo, plus Silas Darkmoon and Soulbound Ashtongue haha. Why wait them out when you can inflict 2000+ damage to their face and just end things :D

    I still think you should include Fel Rag in spoiler, at least. It wasn't a bad card, even if I prefer your new one.

    As for the OTK, wouldn't something like Shield Slam still do the trick?

    Well, Shield Slam is a Warrior card, while Earthen Scales (to get all that Armor) is a Druid card. You can do the combo in Warrior - and people have been doing it since Silas came out - but not for 2000+ damage.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad Little Devil Teemo 2070 2053 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Take a moment to see how many crazy things you can think of with this card. The most important thing though is, does the effect make sense?

    I feel like the fact that it's a fairly small hero card, as well as not having 4 lines of text, will probably make it stand out among most entries in this comp.

    Linkblade91

    Felfire Ragnaros is really cool aesthetically, though I do agree that it has a LOT of face damage potential and both classes have ways of being able to utilize it effectively.

    Mecha-Mannoroth is cool, although I agree with what you said before about only killing one minion with its effect throughout the whole game, and continually resurrecting it.

    Wailor

    So it looks like my comment about my card standing out for being small may not be true after all.

    I really like this card though. It's simple, yet its effective and interesting. 5 stars from me.

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  • Neoguli's Avatar
    Duskrider 855 533 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    A quick idea for my mashup. I just had to immediately use the Dreadlord Jaina's art. :>

    So the idea is that her HP and Battlecry benefit both classes - DH can use her as a followup after Sigil of Reckoning (preferably, since that was my intent :>), and Jaina got a push for expensive spells in Alterac Valley. HP benefits Mage more, albeit Demon Hunter can also use it for some quick chip damage and a 2/2, all for 1 Mana, not to mention Demon synergies.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

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  • BasilAnguis's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 725 327 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Anduin in the lore naturally evolves to a paladin or paladin/priest hybrid, and so this comp is the perfect occasion to show that. Combines life gain, weapons, removal, summoning dudes and holy spell synergy! The latter is more a paladin thing nowadays but i'm still hoping holy priest becomes a thing.

     

    Feedback:

    • linkblade - i like the idea, though the multi targeting thing is a bit strange. I feel like the card could be abused to only have it as the only destroy effect in the deck, and so you summon the same thing over and over again.
    • Wailor - simple, but effective. I like the hero power but not sure on the battlecry. Gaining 20 attack to smack one minion feels sad. And druid can do the combo with Soulbound Ashtongue and Silas Darkmoon much easier with 20 mana...
    • Demonxz95 - sorry but i don't get the battlecry. So you draw a minion, and it gains stuff i understand that part. But what bonus battlecries does it get? "It gains every Battlecry copied by this" no where in the text does your card ever mention copying stuff.
    • Neoguli - I don't see the demon hunter flavor in this to be honest. Seems like it's a better Magister Dawngrasp to me. And i feel a 1 mana deal 1 damage summon a 2/2 is kinda too strong. Even at 2 mana it's pretty good.

    I'll boop you 

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar
    1680 1834 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Looks like I'll be able to participate this week. Here's my first idea:

     

    In Standard there are 2 good outcomes from the Beast pool (Frostsaber Matriarch, Mountain Bear), 1 is okay (Thickhide Kodo), 4 are meh (Ironfur Grizzly, Silverback Patriarch, Encumbered Pack Mule, Toad of the Wilds). I could use a cost restriction to influence the outcome, but I prefer the textbox to not get too crammed.

    Feedback would be very welcome, I've got one or two more interesting art pieces if Zaela doesn't vibe with you people. I'll add some thoughts of my own about your cards soonish.

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • anchorm4n's Avatar
    1680 1834 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Feedback time!

    linkblade91
    Cool idea! Multi-targeting is something that has yet to be explored in depth and this is a very flavorful way to do that. The card as well as the Hero Power are rather on the complicated side of the spectrum, but everything that helps Ragers to get the glory they deserve earns at least 4 stars in my books.

    Wailor
    I totally agree with you - the prompt only looks simple at first glance. As usual, your card is one of my favorites. I love the names of the Hero and its Power, the Battlecry fits the classes very well and it's nice to see a 4 costed Hero. Great work!

    Demonxz95
    Sorry but I don't get the effect. How does the copying happen? The Hero Power looks interesting, but a little too RNG heavy for my taste.

    Neoguli
    Nice idea. It's rather creative to unite DH and Mage, but I agree that the artwork looks nasty! The effects of the Hero and her Power take some getting used to, but I like the consistency you've added to them by the improvements the tokens get. I'm a bit rusty, but doesn't the token need a watermark? Not sure about the Cost of the Hero Power either. 2 Mana would probably be better, but I get that you need to keep the connection to DH. Hmmmmm.

    BasilAnguis
    The flavor is over the top, what a great idea! Fix the art of the second token and go collect your 5 stars!

    I notice I am confused. Something I believe isn't true. How do I know what I think I know?
    Harry James Potter-Evans-Verres, hpmor.com

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad Little Devil Teemo 2070 2053 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Ah, I was worried the wording might not have been clear enough. Seems like my suspicions were correct. So, what happens is that it draws a Battlecry minion and then it starts a chain of effects copied. For example.

    So, how many broken combos can you envision with this thing? hehehe

    Extra feedback.

    Neoguli
    It does look pretty cool except for the fact that Taunt is explicitly meant to be a weakness of Mage, and I don't think dual-class cards should be allowed to cheat class weaknesses.

    BasilAnguis
    This is incredibly flavorful, but I don't enjoy the fact that the second token has the same art as the first, nor the fact that it's a way for Priest to equip a traditional weapon. That said, good card all around.

    Anchorm4n

    I do think the Battlecry is a bit too random for my tastes, and I do think Wild makes it worse. You could summon either a Witch's Apprentice, or a… Winged Guardian. That said, this type of design is just natural Hearthstone and if you want to embrace how dumb Hearthstone randomness can get, then I wouldn't fault you for it. It feels like something Team 5 would try to print.

    The Hero Power seems finely balanced, although it's a bit strange seeing as how neither Warrior nor Hunter uses Freeze effects (other than Snowed In which just stands out poorly if you ask me).

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  • AeroJulwin's Avatar
    Fan Creator 260 85 Posts Joined 07/08/2021
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    The Hero Power could be considered a direct upgrade for both classes, since they both give 1 Attack to your hero, but now for free. Of course its main point is that the effect is active during your opponents turn as well, allowing you to put a little bit of pressure on the enemy board even during your opponent's turn.

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  • MrRhapsody's Avatar
    Child of the Night 765 98 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Gues I'm going with a Warlock card again, just not sure which version to go.

    The idea is that Mohg extracts his blood to increase his powers, the perfect illustration of a Blood Mage.

    And I knew the theme only looks simple at first glance when I suggested it, so if any one is struggling with ideas, I'll leave a piece of a FCS interview I did about Elden Ring heroes, which were all dual class heroes (and by the way, the thread recently got updated with a new hero, go take a look!) I hope it helps to inspire someone.

    Show Spoiler
    "I think the main thought I had when making those heroes was "compare and adapt". Let's take Malenia for example, she's by no mean a druid nor a rogue, she's not stealthy, she doesn't steal anything, she doesn't turn into animals nor throw plant at her opponent's, in fact, she plays her own class in the game, but if you can compare her in game abilities and lore to Hearthstone's you can see why I design her as a Druid/Rogue. Her main weapon is a prosthetic katana, which causes you to bleed, steals your life and is fast as hell! Which Hearthstone class is known for being fast and do a lot of stuff in one turn? Yes, rogue, and another gimmick she is famous for is the Scarlet Rot, a fungal like disease which acts like a poison on one's mind and body, and she reaches the goddess of rot stage, she grows plant wings filled with fungus and butterflies. Fungus, plants, butterflies, which is the best Hearthstone class to represent those aspects, oh right, Druid! So when you see Malenia's class, don't see her as a Rogue/Druid, see her as her own class which can be interpreted as Rogue/Druid. This is another great aspect of Duels heroes, you can mix two classes to create a new one specific to your character, Ranni is not a Mage nor a Warlock, she's a Witch, but can be interpreted as a Mage/Warlock, Radahn is not a Warrior/ Mage, he's a Warrior which occasionally uses magic, but the dual class system allows us to explore the entirely set of a characters' ability without missing flavor

    Feedback coming soon.

    Do you also like Elden Ring? Then you should check out my Elden Ring inspired Duels Heroes!

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  • Neoguli's Avatar
    Duskrider 855 533 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    An update on my submission. Now it should be more balanced, as admittedly Jaina having huge Taunts was a big no-no. Now it instead plays out on both classes using higher-Cost spells like Inner Demon or Rune of the Archmage. The Hero Power is also more balanced, giving you a 1/1 Vigilante with HP and not a 2/2 with Taunt like it did, whilst still enabling Wildfire and Reckless Apprentice shenanigans for Mage and some token-based ones for Demon Hunter due to the Vigilante being naturally small for them.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 500 499 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    Feedback time! As a general comment, I see many cards that could easily be mono-class, which kinda defeats the point of the competition.

    linkblade91
    It's a cool card, but has some problems. I don't really mind the double target, but it's a bit strange to have resurrection outside Priest. It also feels more Warlock than Warrior, but it has the Armor gain, so at least it's justified.

    Demonxz95
    Count me among those who didn't understand the Battlecry XD I'd probably use Aegwynn, the Guardian as an inspiration for the wording. If you manage to make it understandable, you should be in good shape, as it is a very cool effect, even if it has the potential to be broken.

    Regarding to class identity, it feels more Shaman than Rogue. Maybe the Hero Power could remedy that somehow, as the current one doesn't fit any class particularly.

    Neoguli
    The second version is much better, but I don't really see DH's identity besides the Demon tag the token has. Maybe Warlock would be more appropriate? I don't know.

    BasilAnguis
    This card isn't allowed to participate, I'm afraid, as the number of tokens is limited to three. That said, it's easy to fix it if both minions have Taunt and Lifesteal (and possibly a 3/3 statline, to compensate).

    Despite that, I like the card, even if it could easily be monoclass Paladin.

    anchorm4n
    Since you asked about it, I must say I really like the artwork. It's quite cool and fits both classes. Also, the overall card is one of the best at feeling dual class, so good job on that.

    Talking about negatives, I have similar concerns as Demon:

    • The Battlecry is too random. This could be easily be fixed by having a pre-defined token (like a 4/4 Bear or something) or by making it summon a Beast with a concrete cost, like Teacher's Pet.
    • The HP uses a keyword which neither class uses. Besides that, the "If it survives" bit is redundant (Freeze is only relevant if the target survives anyway). I'd probably go with a Fire Shot with the effect "If the target survives, damage its neighbors", as it fixes both issues.

    Aerojulwin
    Like anchorm4n, your card fits both classes really well, so good job on that department.

    My main issue is the Hero Power: while having Attack in your opponent's turn is quite novel, given it's only 1, it'll rarely have an impact. Honestly, I'd probably make it active during your turn, because having such a new concept being almost negligible feels worse than not having it at all.

    MrRhapsody
    I like the first version more both with the Battlecry and the HP.

    Regarding the Battlecry, I wonder if it happens just twice or if it would keep going. Conceptually, I like the later (you have to keep making decisions of whether it's worth to lose Health or not), but it could get out of hand very easily, especially with the Hero Power and in the case of Mage (which has a lot of damaging spells). Maybe the card should cost more if this is the case. Also, an alternative effect could be: "Add three random spells from your class to your hand. They cost Health instead of Mana this turn."

    Regarding the HP, I like how Warlock has an easier time triggering it, but Mage is better at abusing it.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad Little Devil Teemo 2070 2053 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago

    I think this should clear it up now since it reads the same way as Dragonrider Talritha. As for the Hero Power, my alternatives were either a Shadowstep or Shadowcaster effect (which might make the Rogue side of the card a bit more obvious), which both seem fairly dangerous as a Hero Power. That said, for people thinking about the balance of those two ideas, the extra effects are applied as enchantments and therefore wouldn't persist if you returned them to the hand or copied them.

    Feedback

    AeroJulwin
    I do like the idea of the Battlecry even though I do think it's a bit on the difficult side to get it to get good value of it a lot of the time. My main point of concern is that giving your hero Attack during your opponent's turn. Not specifically from my own personal viewpoint because I think the way you've executed it here is fine, but I know that it's extremely touchy to a lot of people, and I know a lot of people have a rather volatile reaction to this type of design.

    MrRhapsody

    I think both of these designs are quite sound, but unfortunately your first one has a pretty major roadblock: Violet Illusionist.

    Your second design is definitely safer. Some people might be irked at the fact that you're giving Mage a Lifesteal card, but this particular instance doesn't really bother me so much. Unfortunately though, there isn't really a way to Mage to use the Hero Power since they don't have the self-damage that Warlock does.

    Neoguli
    I do think this design is rather solid overall, though there is one admittedly quite minor thing about the card that bothers me a bit which is with the Hero Power. If you want the Hero Power to benefit from scaling its damage, then I feel like the card itself should probably have a way to do that.

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  • AeroJulwin's Avatar
    Fan Creator 260 85 Posts Joined 07/08/2021
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    These dual-class prompt are always though.

    Feedback

    linkblade91
    As others have mentioned the Hero Power is very much problematic. And although I like the connection you put between the classes that they both use pain for profit, I do feel it's more on the Warlocky side.

    About the multi-targeting, I don't think Hearthstone will use it on any complex cards any time soon. Current cards' effects are more focused around it.

    Wailor
    It's definitely fitting for a dual-class cards, however the battlecry feels a bit underwhelming. Just compare it to Hit It Very Hard. Perhaps it could also make your hero damage adjacent minions that turn to make it feel impactful.

    demonxz95
    I like what you're doing with the battlecry, but I think it should work without the card draw. If you have a lot of small battlecry minions in your deck you could simply play, draw, play, draw, etc until you're out of Mana. This would allow you to draw battlecry cards way too consistently and trigger the fusion of battlecries a lot each turn. Also makes the Hero Power obsolete.

    Neoguli
    Although the Vigilante part adds flavor towards Demon Hunter, It really doesn't seem like a DH card effect-wise. DH doesn't use big spells as an archetype, meaning you're just copying the same one or two spells, which gets repetitive and could be done with any class. And DH can't upgrade their Hero Power at all.

    BasilAnguis
    Dual-class cards of course have the choice to use a common ground, combining class-specific effects or a combination of both. You are clearly trying to go for a common ground with Lifesteal and Holy spells, but the weapon prevents this from counting for both classes.

    MrRhapsody
    I really like the second battlecry, because I think it has a lot of potential.

    I do see an issue with the Hero Powers. The second one is too abusable and Mage will never really profit from the first.

    I'll try to make one or two alternative Hero Powers later.

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  • Dolphinslayer's Avatar
    105 7 Posts Joined 04/06/2022
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    I certainly was able to work this out in my brain a lot easier than the last version of this. Still don't know how broken this is, but it does seem cool.

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  • MrRhapsody's Avatar
    Child of the Night 765 98 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    I think people got confused by my first card, so I'll give a proper explanation:

    The Battlecry works the same as Instructor Fireheart, and it synergizes with the Hero Power! So for example: If cast 3 spells with the Battlecry, you'll have Spell Damage +3 for the rest of the game, and the more damage you take from the battlecry, the more Spell Damage you'll have. Would Mage REALLY not benefict from a permanent Spell Damage +3? But that's ok, here's a new version, it works the same as the first one, except the Battlecry and the Hero Power are switched, so with all explanations given, should I go with the first version or this one? ( since I'm not really happy with the second).

    And now, my feedback:

    Linkblade
    Yeah, Ragnaros is pretty cool but also kinda busted. Mecha-Mannoroth is not as cool but way more balanced, however, the fact you can just kill one specific minion and keep ressurecting it forever is kinda scary, specially considering it curves right into Mr.Smite. my suggestions to you is to either make the Hero Powers set the stats of the minion to 3/3 or something, or make the battlecry destroy more than one minion.

    Wailor
    You're making some awesome cards this season, definally a 5/5, no complains. And also, that combo people are talking aren't really a issue, Druid has far more broken combos in Wild.

    Demon
    Its a nice card, but I think it should costs more, the feeling towards mid game cards that instantly wins the game when played is quite negative as you might know, and this looks like one of those cards to me, that snowball could get the size a skycrapper, imagine cards like Reno or hero Scabbs, that wouldn't be fun at all. I suggest you to raise a cost to 5 or even to 6. As for the Hero Power, going for the bouncing diraction is quite fitting and flavourful, but as you already statted, also dangeroes, go for it, but be careful.

    Neoguli
    Cool card, but as other are saying, the DH side of the card is there purelly for flavour. I think you should drop DH for Warlock, since I personally couldn't think of anything cool and fitting between DH and Mage.

    BasilAnguis
    I saw that one coming, and it's a quite cool implementation of King Anduin, but I think the priest side of the card could be improved, so what make the battlecry ressurect minions as 4/4 with Taunt? It would make the card more priest like and also remove the Token problem Wailor mentioned. Also, I think Lifesteal should be used only by Shadow Priests, it is just my personal taste, but perhaps other people here think the same way and might take some points away from you for it.

    anchorm4n
    It seens you already submmited, but know that the new version is a lot better.

    AeroJulwin
    The Hero entrance effect is very awesome! The Hero Power? Not so much. Maybe a permanent +1 Attack on your turn would be good enough, but I'll wait for your brainstorm to see the new hero Power, since I don't really have another suggestion this time.

    Do you also like Elden Ring? Then you should check out my Elden Ring inspired Duels Heroes!

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