Mini-Set Madness - Card Design Competition Discussion Thread

  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2180 2283 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago


    Competition Theme: Mini-Set Madness

    The sets may be miniature in size, but there's an enormous past for them to cover.

    • You must make a card for a theoretical mini-set of an old expansion that has not received one.
      • Work under the assumption that the mini-set comes out next Hearthstone Year (rather than back then).
        • That means you can use mechanics that did not exist at the time (Rush, spell schools, etc.).

    What would happen if Hearthstone's mini-sets covered more of its not-so-mini past? Nobudy and Wailor are both asking that question this week.

    As always, we can be reached through Discord or here on the site via PM if you have any issues to report.


    Competition Phases

    Here are the phases of this card design competition

    • Submission Phase: Starts on Mon, Jan 23 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sat, Jan 28 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Voting Phase: Starts on Sat, Jan 28 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Sun, Jan 29 16:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Finalist Phase: Starts on Sun, Jan 29 17:00 EST (GMT -0500). Runs until Mon, Jan 30 17:00 EST (GMT -0500)
    • Winner Selected: After finalist voting concludes and we validate votes.

    Discussion Thread Rules

    No thread rules were added to this season. Please populate and manually edit this thread with them.

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 560 616 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago

    This competition can be a bit of a strange, but I think there are several ways to make an interesting card:

    • Combine expansion-exclusive mechanics and themes with classes and evergreen keywords that didn't exist back then. How would a Portal spell from ONiK look in Death Knight? Is there an interesting idea that combines Rush and Spare Parts?
    • Expand the design space of expansion exclusive mechanics. You can even create complementary keywords, just like The Deadmines created Trade to complement Tradable (as in Blackwater Cutlass).
    • Combine mechanics from several expansions in the same year, in case you're designing a card for the last set of the year.

    In terms of flavor, you can try something that differs just a little from the main expansion, like Nathria went from a whodunnit in Revendreth to a judicial drama in the Maw. You can also barely change the flavor (like Throne of the Tides) or change it a lot (like Onyxia's Lair), but I think the sweet spot lies in the middle.

    I'll try to post my first ideas tomorrow, but I wanted to share these general advices first.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2180 2283 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago

    Everyone let the mini-set madness... begin!!!! (obligatory title-drop)

    I didn't realize until after I made it that Shadowball is just a better Cheap Shot, but Cheap Shot is was never exactly a good card or anything, so I don't mind powercreeping it, and I think the way Echo interacts with the Overkill justifies the design space.

    Dungeoneer Casori is my main idea I'm chasing in this competition. It's a form of Burgle/Secret support, and it's also a method that Rogue can access some semi-reliable toolbox of options. An interesting note is that even if you play Casori in her stage 1 or 2 form, the Spellstones can still be upgraded by its regular condition.

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  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator 1650 2258 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago

    I made two ideas, to help illustrate the kind of thing that we're looking for (edit: only to be ninja'd by the other two :P):

    They both are a mix of the new and the old, and their "home expansion" is easily discerned.

    • Twilight Shepherd is a C'Thun card for the Death Knight; I made him a 1-drop because spending Corpses can only be done on certain cards for certain amounts, and you have to incentivize the class to use the old/bad cards somehow. Obviously a good pairing with Lord Marrowgar, though.
    • Monica Dreadguard mixes Inspire from TGT (and the Discard synergies that were around at the time) with the Fel school, providing you an incentive to trash the card you just drew. If it's a card worth discarding, like Fist of Jaraxxus, even better!

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 560 616 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Here's my first idea.

    The Cambrian is a geological period when biodiversity really exploded and complex organisms started to thrive. I figured out a mini-set based on other extinct animals would make sense. The reward is based on the dunkleosteus, a huge predator fish (which lived in a posterior period, but whatever).

    In terms of mechanics, it provides a Neutral Quest (just like Throne of the Tides had Neutral Colossals) and uses the new keyword Adaption, which complements Adapt.

    I think this might be a bit too weak, so I might change it so that all summoned minions get the Adaption; or that it gives other minions the two Adaption you didn't pick instead of the one you picked; or both.

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  • BasilAnguis's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 820 382 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Well this is a hard prompt but i think i got a pretty solid idea.

    I'm 99% sure i'll submit this one, just need feedback on the 4 effects. Still, made a second idea just in case:

    I'll boop you 

    1
  • cydonianknight's Avatar
    515 89 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    This card is for the Rastakhan's Rumble mini-set which is intended to combine the Witchwood, Boomsday and RR expansions. This card focuses on a ghostly swarm of Gral's sharks (note that the Echo keyword doesn't allow this to cost less than 1).  It allows shenanigans to be pulled off with cards such as Cannon Barrage, Bloodsail Howler, Serrated Tooth and it's Battlecry can be doubled by Spirit of the Shark.

     

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  • Neoguli's Avatar
    Duskrider 870 563 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Three ideas.

    "Truth is in the shadows, waiting to be revealed by the light. But light only disperses the shadow." - Me

    "If other people shared traits of those considered naive, the world would've become a better place." - Also me

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2180 2283 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Holy shit this competition is moving incredibly slow. If no one gives feedback soon then nothing will ever get done, so I guess it's up to me.

    Linkblade91

    I like Twilight Shepherd as a way to communicate what a C'Thun Death Knight could be. I think the effect of spending Corpses to do this allows the card to feel Death Knight-y, and provides a potentially powerful way to buff C'Thun that wouldn't be too broken due to requiring a resource.

    Monica Dreadguard is a fine card. My main criticism about the card though is that it generates Fel spells, yet the art seems very fire-oriented, so there's a bit of a disconnect there.

    Wailor

    First off, your advice is incredibly good and everyone in this thread should take it if they're having trouble.

    As for your card itself, I like the idea of making a Neutral Quest and I wouldn't be opposed to Team 5 giving us a Neutral Quest, Questline, or even a hero card in an expansion fairly soon. We already have a Neutral Legendary weapon ala Sphere of Sapience, so really, anything can happen. I do like that it ties into Un'Goro's other keyword and I do think choosing different Adaptations is more creative than just "Play 4 Adapt cards" or something like that.

    I can definitely see why you think Apexus is weak. My first comparison point is The Mistcaller since Flaming Claws, Rocky Carapace, or Volcanic Might effectively makes it a 5 mana 8/8 Mistcaller that requires a Quest to complete. At the same time though, there are definitely some Adaptations that could be a bit on the problematic side. I could see Crackling Shield, Lightning Speed, or Shrouding Mist potentially being annoying even they aren't necessarily overpowered. This isn't really your fault though since Adapt in general is just simply not very well balanced across all of its options. Having all summoned minions gain the Adaptation would be a good route, but then Living Spores might get in the way.

    Overall I'd say it's a good card. Adapt effects like this are hard to work with and you did the best you could given that. It is probably a bit weak, but I don't really think it can be any stronger before it becomes unfun.

    BasilAnguis

    You won't be able to use Unidentified Mummy since the maximum tokens you can submit on a card is 3. In general, most cards don't need more than that, but I can see why think could potentially be problematic. Should we increase the number of tokens on future comps to 4? The artwork of the base form is also just a real-life picture, and that's definitely going to get penalized from people out the wazoo.

    The Worgen Curse is a fine card. I think I like that one better.

    And also remember to use the mini-set watermarks found in the custom watermark option.

    Cydonianknight
    I like the idea on paper, but I don't like how the extra effect sort of quickly becomes obsolete once you play two of them. Once you get a string of 1 mana 3/2s, you just… don't get anything else after that.

    Neoguli

    If you wanted people to also count Dragonbane Ritual from the previous comp, then it would've been a good idea to post the card again here.

    I definitely like Suffocating Lullaby the best out of the other two. I don't like Flameguard Protector that much since Permanent Overload is basically just losing a Mana Crystal and I don't think the effect can be explored since the downside can easily be negated by just using something like Overdraft.

    1
  • Alfi's Avatar
    Devoted Academic 1790 1350 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    One inspired by Joust mechanic in The Grand Tournament

    Eat is the usual ‘remove from game and gain its stats’. Original Mutanus is 7 mana but I made this one cheaper to make it less powerful.

    -=alfi=-

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  • BloodMefist's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 825 724 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Two of my initial ideas. Aethas Sunreaver serves as a powerful value tool for Control decks, but comes at the cost of being quite slow and not immediately impacting the board. EVIL Propagandist looks to give some 'oomph' to self-damage and Lackey strategies for Warlock, which were a bit lacking at the time.

    1
  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 560 616 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Yeah, this is being a very slow week. I haven't had as much time as usual, but I managed to finally write some feedback:

    Demonxz95
    I think I prefer Shadowball, but it's only by a small margin. I really like how Echo and Overkill interact and I don't mind the powercreep too much, especially since this mini set is supposed to be launched in the present time (and the two cards aren't for the same class).

    Dungeoneer Casori is also very cool, especially considering the fact you also upgrade her. It's funny, I also made a Rogue legendary that burgled legendary spells in my Boomsday miniset.

    Overall, both cards are very solid in terms of mechanics and I'd probably rate them with 5 stars (or 4 if there are too many cards I really like).

    linkblade91
    I like Twilight Shepherd a quite a lot, the way you buff him is very creative and really fits DK. You also made the right choice with the mana Cost. The only nitpick I have is the Shepherd part of the name (it's not a Priest card, even if he belongs to a cult), but maybe I'm missing something.

    Monica Dreadguard is also fine, but I don't like her as much as your other card (despite sharing her name with my fiancee lol). I like that her Inspire effect is so tied to the Warlock HP, but that makes me wonder what would happen if another class randomly generated her (I guess she'd be a vanilla minion). Finally, I think she would work better as a non legendary minion, because her effect isn't too flashy.

    BasilAnguis
    Unidentified Mummy was my favorite card, but it cannot participate because of the token limit Demon mentioned.

    That leaves us with The Worgen Curse. I'd like to suggest it should be a legendary because of flavor reasons, but that would make it less consistent, so I don't know.

    Finally, you should use the the mini-set watermark, which can be found in the "custom" part of Hearthcards. It's at the bottom of the watermarks, bc they were the first to be added.

    cydonianknight
    The base idea is cool and the artwork makes the card very neat. However, its a bit boring as is.

    To make it more nuanced, I'd suggest giving it Rush and making one of the following things:

    • Making the cost discount a Combo effect.
    • Keeping the discount as a Battlecry but making the Echo part a Combo effect.
    • Rising its cost to 4.

    Neoguli
    Bonedrake Ritual is my favorite card, but it can't participate because it's from a set that already has a miniset.

    About the others, I think I prefer Flameguard Protector, but I'm not sure if everyone will appreciate its gimmick.

    Suffocating Lullaby is cool too, but it should either be a pure class card (I'd go for Priest) or use the Scholomance watermark.

    Alfi
    Not a huge fan, honestly. It doesn't fit TGT in terms of flavor and it's only tangencially related mechanically. Also, the effect is probably detrimental most of the time, as you're removing cheap cards from your opponent's deck, making their draws better on average.

    BloodMefist
    Aethas Sunreaver is probably my favorite, but you should listen to other people who are better at balancing than me if the card isn't too dangerous in some way.

    EVIL Propagandist is good too, although it doesn't push the Lackey mechanic in unexpected ways, like minisets often do. If you go with it, keep in mind the word "hero" shouldn't be capitalized. I'd also recommend making it Rise of Shadows mini set, as the name makes more sense in a city than in a desert.

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  • BasilAnguis's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 820 382 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Well that... sucks. Quite a few cards in game have 4 tokens. the unidentified cards are just one category of them. Bru'kan of the Elements and Kalimos, Primal Lord.

    Demonxz95 - It's not a real image by far lol. Just a zoomed in Final Reward from MTG. I wanted a mummy that was wrapped fully so it could be an actual "unidentified" mummy.

    I know it would be against the rules sort of but is it not possible to submit 2 cards as 1 "token" by putting 2 cards in one image?

    Like so.

    I'll boop you 

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2180 2283 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From BasilAnguis

    I know it would be against the rules sort of but is it not possible to submit 2 cards as 1 "token" by putting 2 cards in one image?

    Like so.

    It's not "sort of" against the rules. It just simply is against the rules and there have been instances where we've disqualified entries for doing this.

    So unfortunately there isn't really a fair way around this. I suppose this justifies discussing with the team about raising the standard token limit going forward.

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2180 2283 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From Wailor

    Here's my first idea.

    The Cambrian is a geological period when biodiversity really exploded and complex organisms started to thrive. I figured out a mini-set based on other extinct animals would make sense. The reward is based on the dunkleosteus, a huge predator fish (which lived in a posterior period, but whatever).

    In terms of mechanics, it provides a Neutral Quest (just like Throne of the Tides had Neutral Colossals) and uses the new keyword Adaption, which complements Adapt.

    I think this might be a bit too weak, so I might change it so that all summoned minions get the Adaption; or that it gives other minions the two Adaption you didn't pick instead of the one you picked; or both.

    (card that has been submitted by another user)

    Well now this is quite unfortunate....

    0
  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 560 616 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From Demonxz95

    (card that has been submitted by another user)

    Well now this is quite unfortunate....

    Yeah, I've seen it 🥲 I guess I'll go with one card from my Boomsday miniset, but it's kinda annoying.

    EDIT: I ended going with Learning Machine.

    1
  • CursedParrot's Avatar
    635 699 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Here's my idea for a TGT miniset card to make the Inspire keyword from that set hopefully less of a failure

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  • Wailor's Avatar
    Design Champion 560 616 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago
    Quote From CursedParrot

    Here's my idea for a TGT miniset card to make the Inspire keyword from that set hopefully less of a failure

    I like the idea! It feels quite balanced and it's a nice way to buff Inspire. You should use the custom TGT Mini-set watermark if you want the icing on the cake :

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  • Demonxz95's Avatar
    Content Squad 2180 2283 Posts Joined 03/19/2019
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    Y'all got 24 hours to submit.

    1
  • linkblade91's Avatar
    Global Moderator 1650 2258 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 1 week ago

    Good luck to everyone in the voting!

    I didn't provide any feedback 'cause I don't feel all that great mentally. Sorry.

    Show Spoiler
    Didn't receive the best news from a medical-meeting I had last week, and now I'm just kinda…here, playing Elden Ring or Hearthstone and sulking. Edit: I'm not dying and it's not cancer. Realized that came off very dramatic D:

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

    2
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