Instead of doing 1 thread per class, I've decided to do a single master thread for my whole shit.
Some changes happened for the classes I already posted before according to the feedback I've received. There are also some revamped cards that I shamelessly ripped off from other people's reworks (credit is given when it happens) because the main goal of this revamp is not to be creative.
Blizzard's official post on class identity is weird. It mixes class mechanics with strengths and weaknesses so most of the stuff doesn't make sense. The way I proceeded is completely different. I started by listing what should be the primary and secondary mechanics of the class, the strengths and weaknesses of the class as well as the archetypes available to it should follow from this list.
I say "core sets" a lot, but the Basic and Classic set are NOT interchangeable in their functions.
Tribal synergies are part of a class primary identity in only 3 cases
All other class-tribe associations are mostly a matter of coincidence as these tribes happen to fit in the class identity (eg pirates for Warrior/Rogue)
NOTE: If you're an Arena player, you will probably look at this set in horror since it contains a lot of cards that are or were notoriously very good or even outright cancer in this mode. There's really no way around it. The Basic set is supposed to be generalistic and versatile, this intrinsically makes it broken in Arena. If it were real, this Basic set would NEVER be part of any Arena rotation.
(as you can tell, I hate Freeze Mage)
Listed below are cards I considered adding to the core sets but didn't, either because they have a flaw that make them unfit for core sets, or because there was no room for them anymore.
I paid special attention to the mana cost distribution of my neutral sets. This is something I don't bother with for class sets. My curve peaks at 3 mana and goes farther than the current curve. Notice how random the distribution of cards for the current classic set is...
WIP. I will revise my previous set to take people's feedback into account.
It seems that the spam filter erroneously marked this as spam.
But I took care of it.
There are a few cards that I feel could use some light touch ups that didn't like Arcane Devourer for an example which I feel could cost 1 less or start with slightly better stats, that said not all card are meant to be viable but that is a card that may as well not exist.
Quote From Demonxz95It seems that the spam filter erroneously marked this as spam.But I took care of it.
Thank you Demon. It was probably due to the terrible formatting of my post.
Subject 9, Scrapyard Colossus, Fungalmancer, and Lazy Peon all could be very restricting in an evergreen set. Besides that, the total removal of charge is a bad idea. It's a core keyword and I believe it should exist in some shape or form. The basic set is also supposed to have a few bad cards to teach players the strengths and weaknesses a card could have. Silverback is supposed to be compared to Grizzly to teach that Health isn't the only important stat in a Taunt minion, Magma Rager is supposed to demonstrate the importance of balanced stats on an aggressive minion.
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Seems like the direction for classic + basic is now pure tempo or nothing. Just about every face damaging card has been nerfed to oblivion, and every combo card from classic I can think of is now gone or nerfed (even that Injured Blademaster + Circle of Healing combo, which honestly without cleric is entirely moot). A little surprised you've left Malygos untouched, but there's a good chance its because you already planned to get rid of Moonfire. Perhaps all this is a little too drastic for my taste. We're basically letting the expansions take care of adding combo and face cards. Not really a good option in my opinion.
Justicar's inclusion is likely the most controversial. Given how fair most of these cards are, this is perhaps the most powerful card currently in your version of evergreen. Looks like control warrior will take over once again, unless you've specifically designed warrior's cards to contain no control cards.
No ooze, no harrison. But in comes corrosive sludge. Way too expensive for any consideration. There is a good reason why ooze remains in play today, and that's because its an efficient weapon removal option. To be the same most weapons have to cost more that the sludge does, and that's admitably a very small number of weapons. To put a simple example; why would anyone tech to remove the opponent's Eaglehorn Bow, or Stormhammer if the opponent have already taken 2-3 shots at minimum before you have a chance to remove it.
Not a fan at all of you removing charge from all non legednaries outside boar and the non boar ones arent an issue and boar is on purpose kept as it is as it helps them find out probllems if boar is played seriosuly then is prolyl somethign wrong with/inside the meta(their words not mine).
And Wolfrider and bluegill where never any issue at all and instea dof them gabrage maga rager tier you could HOF instead of making worthless.
And NO ART HAS TO BE CHANGED AT ALL. The art is iconic has no reason to be replaced at all. and if want new art give OPTIONS you know cardskins so people can use art they prefer.
And alexstraza effect DOES NOT A CHANGE if want her out of classic, HOF STUFF ISNTEAD OF DESTROYING. WIid is a mode aswell you know, for payign with their odl decks/cards which chanegs liek aleex(where its nto at all issue in wild at all go against that like your alexstraza you removed evry sue of her basicly she is now garbage not worth a legendary adn nto worht 9mana 8/8 at all. HoF is way better then makign clasis/basic worhtless garbage tier cards.
and vulpera scoundrel woulnt be to good at all for classic with currnet stats its not even that good of card in egenral for constructed.
Raidleader is still pure garbage thats serves 0 use at all for anyone.
Magma rager doenst need to be changed
The 5/5 sludge ahs no reaosn to excist in classic ooze is 100times betetr and its nto issue .
Ultrasaul serves 0purpose in classic so does
Stormwatcher is terriblle give it rush ontop and it actully has use atleats sometimes.
And arcane devourer could at the VERY LEAST be 7mana or bit higher stats so its maybe any use ever at all for anyone
Amalgam shouldnt be a classic card at all.
Hemet is still gabage and is nto a usable tech at all increase his stats or reduce and he'd still be weak just not worthless(liek yoru new alexstraza)
And nozdormu can be 8mana and he'd still be incredbly weak and really not worth being a legendary at all.
Sorry but i dotn think you did good job at all
Yeah classic/basic shouldnt be the best overlal but still should have goo stuff that atleats serves a purpose ever at all not pure gabage packfiller tier certainly not more and espcially not among legendaries, they dont have to be the best just not uselss.
Wow, nice job with the formatting in a limited-tool environment :) Might steal some of that :D
Yes, Arena player in me screams in horror looking at some of these, but I get your reasoning.
One thing I must say tho, you say that "memes matter" and then you go and basically destroy the OG Meme-Rager itself, which would in turn invalidate all the Ragers in future sets. I think this is a mistake on your part.
Looking forward to more :)
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To give some answers
A new version of my neutral set is under way.
Quote From CheeseTo give some answersOn the removal of Charge (which seems to be the most contentious point) : First thing is I didn't remove it completely since it is still present on Skycap'n Kragg (and will be on class legendaries). Second thing, the Charge keyword is a powerful keyword on any card especially those with a high attack/cost ratio. Having those in Core sets limits design space for future cards. Stonetusk Boar has been problematic several times (with Caverns Below and Dire Frenzy). Bluegill Warrior was problematic in Anyfin Paladin (even though that deck was never tier 1, it's uninteractive).On basic cards that are supposed to be bad : The game has been powercrept to such a degree that "fair" normal cards have nearly no change of seeing play. Even if the power level of the core sets is raised, the average power level of expansions is so high that new players will quickly learn how the game works anyway. I don't think a 2/4 Patriarch and a 7/1 Rager will change that. (Shieldbearer also serves that purpose of showing that stat distribution matters).On the core sets being pure tempo : I agree that my Basic set is nearly-pure tempo not by choice but as a consequence of it being simple. There's only that much you can do without advanced mechanics. For the Classic set however I tried to go beyond pure tempo and put some control/combo cards in there. Did I fail? It must also be compared to the currently existing sets. When you get rid of cards that are supposed to be control but are bad, there isn't much left anyway.Alexstrasza and Nozdormu : I changed their effect instead of HoFing them for one simple reason : they're cancer as they are. I don't want them in ANY MODE neither Standard nor Wild. Alexstrasza nullifies all efforts to counter combo decks. Nozdormu is bad because it penalizes players for reasons external to the game (disabilities, bad mobile, etc...). I stand by that choice.Malygos : The initial version of this post contained a lengthy explanation for each choice I knew would be controversial such as Maly but I scrapped this part because nobody would read it. I'll CP the Maly part : "Malygos is a good illustration of the difference between design space and deckbuilding space. Malygos restricts design space, namely space for cheap damaging spells. However, Malygos also created archetypes around him. Despite fears, those archetypes 1. have never been oppressive in the history of HS and 2. have varied across time. I estimate that the deckbuilding space Malygos creates is greater than the design space it restricts so I left him in the Classic set." (and yes, I will HoF Moonfire not just because of this interaction but also because it doesn't fit Druid in general).Justicar Trueheart : I'm not sure why it would be too OP. The only deck that historically played Justicar were Control Priest and Control Warrior, both of which can be countered (by sustained pressure and value generation respectively). Other classes' upgraded HPs are generally not worth playing a 6mana 6/3. Having Justicar in the Classic set also show players who didn't play during TGT/Witchwood what the upgraded HPs are.Subject 9 : Secrets aren't for tempo. Drawing 5 secrets (but you must first put them into your deck) may become too good at some point in the future, but like Malygos I think the deckbuilding space it opens is way greater than the design space it closes.Scrapyard Colossus, Fungalmancer : I admit those were on the edge and were pretty late inclusions in my sets. Colossus is supposed to fill the role of the high-value big minion that is awesome when cheated but maybe it restricts design space too much? Fungalmancer replaces Defender of Argus/Stormwind Champion as the zoo buffer. I remember that it became playable only after the nerf to Spiteful Summonner so presumably it won't see play everywhere.Arcane Devourer : My reasoning for not buffing it is that it could become broken if it is mana-cheated with the right cards. However I agree that in its current state it has no chance of seeing play. Will reduce its cost.Acidic Swamp Ooze... yeah it was a mistake to replace it with Corrosive Sludge. That change was made only to keep a smooth curve. I will reintroduce it in the next version (but as a 2/2).Yeah, I will continue to replace art that deserves to be replaced.A new version of my neutral set is under way.
onyl problem charge in absic/classic is the boar and devs intoanly keep ti as its never issue on tis own(worse elve archer) they use for ,if gets sued is prolyl soemthign wrong.
Alex and nozdormy just wrong just make new version then DONT DELETE CARDS and theyre anon fucking issue in wild.Ooze yeah was a msitake to replace it and DONT NERF IT ,its not an issue at all and n never has been,never will its a good TECH CARD if doesnt need netfs.
Arcane devourer is a increbdly stupid reason to not buff and FOR MAN CHEAT YoU GOT WAY BETETR OPTIONS.
Sorry but i think youre just terrible at it.
Wanan try building actual decks on this site with your Core Set Chnages in mind? I think this will give you important insight on whether you succeeded or not. I've done that to my own set and took some notes that can tell me if changes need to be made.
Hearthcards deck creating enthusiast. Also previously known on Hearthpwn as Cooler39140 and Huoyan.
Magma Rager and Silverback Patriarch should never, ever change. They're too iconic. I also strongly dislike changing card art and names for the same reason.
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I think that the 9 Mana dragons could honestly all just become 8 Mana (with some changes obviously). To compensate for the buff I think Malygos could go down to Spell Damage +4 and some of Ysera’s dream cards might have to be nerfed.
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