Conjurer's Braindead Calling

Rise of Shadows
  • Prudence94's Avatar
    Eevee 250 21 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    I don't think the Cost or Twinspell are the problems I think the reason the card feels so busted right now is because of the ridiculously small pool of cards in Giants' mana slot... Add just 1 good battlecry minion that has really shitty stats (like 3/3 or 4/4) at 10 and 12 mana and the card won't feel nearly as broken as before... 

    "この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない  それでも信じて 進むんだ  星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"

    7
  • nerfzul's Avatar
    55 3 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    or just make conjuror's calling summon minions of the cost you ACTUALLY paid, meaning a 0 mana giant would summon two 0 cost minions.

    -4
  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Scarletspartan

    "Mage has the weakness of no taunts and board flooding"

    Conjurer's Calling Card Image

    I get what you are trying to say here, but this one card does not change the core of mages identity. 

    people are saying that that post from blizzard was dumb and inaccurate and they are pointing out only one or two cards that break the class identity. but it is okay that in a expansion a class gets a single card that does not follow the regular guidlines. 

    I am a where that this is not the point of the thread but I still feel obliged to point this out.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    4
  • turn1manawrm's Avatar
    35 9 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    “Add just 1 good battlecry minion that has really shitty stats (like 3/3 or 4/4) at 10 and 12 mana and the card won't feel nearly as broken as before... “

    Yes let’s just add a bunch of garbage unplayable minions to the game so mages have a chance at this card backfiring, makes perfect sense

    -1
  • Agon's Avatar
    30 20 Posts Joined 06/07/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    It's exactly what blizz has been doing with evolve mechanics in the past without you realizing :) 

    -2
  • Prudence94's Avatar
    Eevee 250 21 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From turn1manawrm

    “Add just 1 good battlecry minion that has really shitty stats (like 3/3 or 4/4) at 10 and 12 mana and the card won't feel nearly as broken as before... “

    Yes let’s just add a bunch of garbage unplayable minions to the game so mages have a chance at this card backfiring, makes perfect sense

    Did you miss the "GOOD" part? I certainly don't want them to add even more unplayable cards (God only knows how much better this game economy would be if you couldn't open crappy Epics and Legendaries) but I don't think Conjurer's Call on its own is a problem right now... The Deck loses hard to aggro and when you don't draw CC you're just stuck with a bunch a of clunky cards... If you want to nerf something go take a look at Warrior's outrageously good late game package because that is,in my opinion,way more meta warping than a single card that keeps an otherwise dead class afloat...  

    "この 先は 暗い 夜道 だけが も 知らない  それでも信じて 進むんだ  星が その道 を 少し でも 照らしてくをるのを"

    3
  • sinti's Avatar
    Senior Writer Chocolate Cake 2070 2774 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Agon

    It's exactly what blizz has been doing with evolve mechanics in the past without you realizing :) 

    I would disagree with this, i think they know very well what they are doing and are/were diluting specific mana costs for evolve on purpose. Or mby you meant without players realizing it? I think we realize it as well :)

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    1
  • Thonson's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 1740 1713 Posts Joined 03/24/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Honestly, this card seems more of a nuisance to me in Arena than it does in Constructed.  And in Arena it's used more for the intended purpose, not just on various Giants or other big minions.  I guy played it on turn 5 yesterday on me, killing off a 4 cost minion to get two of them and honestly it won the damn game because he got two good 4 drops out of it.

    But I think the main reason this bothers me more in Arena is that I can't guarantee I will have the tools to deal with it, while I might have a way to deal with flooding the board in Constructed (depending on the class/deck I'm playing).  It might also feel this way to me because I honestly am not encountering too many Mages right now as I dilly dally around Rank 8-5 lately. I hear they are all over the Legend ranks... I wonder how so many Mage players are reaching legend... ???  :)

    When this card goes to Wild only in just under 2 years it's still going to have a small card pool at 12 with a smaller chance of hitting the Horror, and a pretty decent 10 drop pool, the worst of which is C'Thun.  Which, if you're playing a C'Thun Mage and Calling into a C'Thun it will summon at whatever you've buffed your C'Thun up to!

    Ultimately it may need to be dealt with, but not sure it's necessary immediately.

    Quick!  Someone give me something clever to write here.

    0
  • MurlocAggroB's Avatar
    COMMENT_COUNT_900_HS 1170 903 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Prudence94

    I don't think the Cost or Twinspell are the problems I think the reason the card feels so busted right now is because of the ridiculously small pool of cards in Giants' mana slot... Add just 1 good battlecry minion that has really shitty stats (like 3/3 or 4/4) at 10 and 12 mana and the card won't feel nearly as broken as before... 

    You can dilute the pool, but that's not going to fix how big of a problem it is in Arena. If you stick this on an 8 or 9 cost minion, that's like GG. Not to mention how common it is to get Khadgar from Messenger Raven.

    Really, I wouldn't mind nuking this card from orbit. It would still see plenty of play in Constructed at 5 mana, but would make it a little bit more balanced in Arena. If you combine that with some bad 12 and 10 drops, I think Conjurer's Calling would be fair.

    A man is lying on the street, some punks chopped off his head

    I'm the only one who stops to see if he's dead.

    Hmm. Turns out he's dead.

    0
  • RandomGuy's Avatar
    430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From MalcolmReynolds
    Quote From Scarletspartan

    "Mage has the weakness of no taunts and board flooding"

    Conjurer's Calling Card Image

    I get what you are trying to say here, but this one card does not change the core of mages identity. 

    people are saying that that post from blizzard was dumb and inaccurate and they are pointing out only one or two cards that break the class identity. but it is okay that in a expansion a class gets a single card that does not follow the regular guidlines. 

    I am a where that this is not the point of the thread but I still feel obliged to point this out.

    Being downvoted for the only intelligent post in this thread. :(

    0
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    Strongly disagree. Without a way to cheat out huge minions on early turns this card is totally fair. The main reason it seems busted is precisely because of the way it interacts with Mountain Giant and the fact that there's only 2 minions that cost 12 in standard. Sure, there's Sea Giant and Rabble Bouncer, but those cards provide a much more random -and fair- pool of minions, not to mention giving the opponent counterplay options if they choose not to go wide on board. It's the combination of Conjurer's Calling + MG that's the problem, not the card itself.

     

    That said I'm not a fan of Khadgar, albeit mainly from a design perspective rather than strictly balance. The card is basically designed to push Conjurer's calling over the top in a way that feels very unsatisfying to lose against, even if it's not a problem qua WR. Sure, it can technically also double mirror image tokens and other summoned minions, but unlike, say, Spirit of the Shark, it feels like the card exists solely to be played with Conj to double it. The power level issue is debatable but I think the linearity and power-spike potential of this card are definitely a problem. I'd rather have it be a bit more consistently powerful, especially independent of Conj, but with a weaker highroll. For example, you could make him a 5 mana 5/5 with battlecry: summon a copy of a minion that was summoned earlier that game. This way you could still use it to cheat out a giant, but not two, and it'd be harder to pull off on the same turn as conj. In return you get a bigger body and you can play the card even if you don't have any conjurer's targets on the board or summoning cards in hand, putting Khadgar more in line with Astromancer.

     

    Edit: regarding a solution for Conj + MG, the obvious would be to HoF the giant, although I'd rather they didn't. Personally, I think printing a neutral minion that can force the opponent to discard a card would be a perfect fix, not just to counter cheap giants, but also combo decks like OTK paladin. Something like a 3 mana 2/3 with Battlecry: if your opponent has 7 or more cards in hand they discard 1 random card.

    -1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar
    465 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From MalcolmReynolds
    Quote From Scarletspartan

    "Mage has the weakness of no taunts and board flooding"

    Conjurer's Calling Card Image

    I get what you are trying to say here, but this one card does not change the core of mages identity. 

    people are saying that that post from blizzard was dumb and inaccurate and they are pointing out only one or two cards that break the class identity. but it is okay that in a expansion a class gets a single card that does not follow the regular guidlines. 

    I am a where that this is not the point of the thread but I still feel obliged to point this out.

    I get what you're saying but this is less like Shaman ineffectually dabbling in Freezes and more like that time when Warrior was the king of aggro due to pirates and pre-nerf War-axe.

     

    It's one thing to temporarily give a class access to tools it doesn't normally use and quite something else to make that class the BEST at something that's diametrically opposite of the stated class identity. I have my own issues with that whole class identity guideline but people aren't wrong to point out how much it is contradicted by recently printed cards.

    0
  • duppie's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 320 240 Posts Joined 04/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From nerfzul

    or just make conjuror's calling summon minions of the cost you ACTUALLY paid, meaning a 0 mana giant would summon two 0 cost minions.

    This is the real fix if T5 decides it needs fixing.  Conjurer's calling isn't even that strong on it's own, it just has powerful interactions with the giants because of mana cheating.  Conj on a minion you paid full price for is actually quite fair and cool design.   

    3
  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar
    360 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From duppie
    Quote From nerfzul

    or just make conjuror's calling summon minions of the cost you ACTUALLY paid, meaning a 0 mana giant would summon two 0 cost minions.

    This is the real fix if T5 decides it needs fixing.  Conjurer's calling isn't even that strong on it's own, it just has powerful interactions with the giants because of mana cheating.  Conj on a minion you paid full price for is actually quite fair and cool design.   

    I don't really like the idea of changing CC to do this because it honestly doesn't seem that interesting to me. CC would more or less become a cousin of Faceless Manipulator at that point. You make a value trade and then transform it into a different low cost minion while summoning another low cost minion. I can't think of any mage lists (even in wild mind you) that would still run CC if it was nerfed like this. The nerf would be that massive

    1
  • duppie's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 320 240 Posts Joined 04/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

    Yeah, I agree.  I think it's a cool and unique card and I like the way it is, but it's pretty strong. 

    Now that i've seen new expansion cards, It seems like the next expansion is giving standard more ways for more classes to deal with mountain giant+CC, so I think it will be fine without a nerf.

    1
  • ArsArtis's Avatar
    145 7 Posts Joined 07/28/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From duppie

    Yeah, I agree.  I think it's a cool and unique card and I like the way it is, but it's pretty strong. 

    Now that i've seen new expansion cards, It seems like the next expansion is giving standard more ways for more classes to deal with mountain giant+CC, so I think it will be fine without a nerf.

    Which ones? At the moment I have only seen the shaman plague and (maybe) the warlock plague. And shaman already had access to hex. Did I miss something?

    0
  • duppie's Avatar
    HearthStationeer 320 240 Posts Joined 04/02/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From ArsArtis
    Quote From duppie

    Yeah, I agree.  I think it's a cool and unique card and I like the way it is, but it's pretty strong. 

    Now that i've seen new expansion cards, It seems like the next expansion is giving standard more ways for more classes to deal with mountain giant+CC, so I think it will be fine without a nerf.

    Which ones? At the moment I have only seen the shaman plague and (maybe) the warlock plague. And shaman already had access to hex. Did I miss something?

     

    The warrior plague is probably good.  As warrior you often have some dudes on the board going into their first conj turn so you can trade some stuff and maybe even still have a board.  This card probably gives control warrior a less awful matchup against the deck because you aren't dependent on your two brawls always being there when you need them, and you might even slide one of these bad boys in bomb warrior, which cares about not destroying it's own board and being proactive.  

    The hunter secret seems solid and it makes giant + conj from hand leave them with one giant which is a lot easier to answer than two.

    Warlock plague is good as well as getting out a 5/5 and an 3/3 can stop them from giant and then conj the next turn, and holding cards in your hand for a big giant turn isn't something you can generally afford against aggressive warlock.  Warlock also has the big ass 7/5 that destroys a minion.  You don't mind taking 8 damage if you're killing a giant and denying a conj.  

    As for shaman, hex only hits one target so unless your shaman deck was very proactive they had no issue just holding cards to giant + cc on the same turn far before your hagatha's scheme.   plague of murlocs can even answer the huge khadgar boards.  

    2
  • Icko's Avatar
    110 25 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

    Am I the only one who thinks this card should be for warlock?

     

    0
  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar
    360 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From Icko

    Am I the only one who thinks this card should be for warlock?

     

    Warlock already had this card. It was called Carnivorous Cube :P

    0
  • Aenarion's Avatar
    Academy Adventurer 435 129 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 4 years, 7 months ago

    I agree, Conjurer's Calling should cost 5 mana. Also, Mountain Giant should be HoF'd.

    Bring back old Warrior Control.

    0
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