Nerfing Tickatus

  • h0lysatan's Avatar Academy Sleuth 660 322 Posts Joined 12/03/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    How about nerfing this card so that it doesn't burn opponent card so easily like that.

    This is what I propose.

    Please pardon the text. Wording is not my strong point.

    Knowledge is Power

    -3
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1140 1969 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Well, it was only a matter of time before we start seeing posts like these. Actually amazing how it took so long.

    Don't get me wrong, I do feel at the moment that tickatus warlock is somewhat oppressive, more than a little unfun to play against, but not because Tickatus itself is extremely broken, but because of the seemingly endless amounts of removal that deck can have while not suffering the usual problems of a control deck.

    If there was a card that needs a look at it would be Cascading Disaster, which at present combined with Dark Skies, School Spirits, malicia, and not to mention that you can get both cascading disasters a second time after yshaaraj, virtually ensures that nothing outside of aggro minions can ever get through its first turn, let alone stay on longer than two. I'm not entirely open to nerfing it yet, since dark skies will be rotating soon, but that's not going to change how crazy this card is, and how impossible it would seem to dodge it.

    As for tickatus itself, I'm not entirely sure. Its polarizing how easily you can sometimes lose your win condition simply by a 10 card burn within two turns, but let's be honest, the card is tremendously reliant on its support cards to ensure you dont just straight up die after playing it. I'm more into team5 designing future cards that can naturally counter it, like reintroducing Dirty Rat, or just have something that can temporarily add cards into your deck but does not impact fatigue matches like soul shards. Either will easily nerf tickatus decks without touching the card itself.

    We'll see if the mid set changes anything. But at the moment, if you ever need reasons to cheer that face decks still exists, this would be it.

    1
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 795 732 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    But... The deck isn't even that good? It gets countered by so much. So much so that it's barely even tier 3.

    5
  • Alfi's Avatar Devoted Academic 1330 810 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From iWatchUSleep

    But... The deck isn't even that good? It gets countered by so much. So much so that it's barely even tier 3.

    It can be not the best devk but if it feels bad to play against it is uncool, to

    -=alfi=-

    0
  • PopeNeia's Avatar Darkmaster 480 571 Posts Joined 07/06/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Well the problem with Tickatus is that he has such an unfun and anti-control/combo design that I am not sure whether it can even be salvaged.

    I would suggest lowering its stats by a huge amount, to maybe a 3/3 or a 4/4 when corrupted. And maybe decreasing the amount of cards it burns. This gives control decks more breathing room to try and kill the Warlock before they lose all of their cards and also forces the Warlock to make a choice between playing Tickatus or losing the board.

     

    This ain't no place for a hero

    0
  • Dunyil's Avatar 260 62 Posts Joined 08/03/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    He definitely needs a huge rework. 
    it’s too easy for him to be played on turn 8 with all of the tutors and with the addition of Yshaarj the current Warlock deck can easily mill 10 cards by turn 10. Not good game design as it completely shuts out control/combo decks from the meta.

    as it stands, he can be slot into any Warlock deck as a win-condition but there are not enough restrictions around him

    he needs to mill 3 cards max, and probably even cost 7-mana. 

    0
  • Tetsuo's Avatar Ice Rager 715 388 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Tickatus Warlock was prevalent after the Boggspine Knuckles nerf, when the meta was still settling. It's all but disappeared in higher ranks now as other decks have risen up to beat it back down. It's not very good. 

    It's annoying to play against, yes, but I don't think a card that's in a tier 3 deck should be nerfed, unless players eventually find a broken combo with this that lets it burn your entire deck before turn 10. If I had to nerf it though, I'd reduce the number of burned cards to 3. That would really worsen the card, though. 

    Legend: Season 74, 77, 80, 81, 82

    2
  • Alfi's Avatar Devoted Academic 1330 810 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Fun way to nerf it should be a paladin secret 

    1 mana - uncorrupt a minion or spell 

    So tickatus would mill his owner, for example

    -=alfi=-

    -3
  • AngryShuckie's Avatar 1050 925 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Tetsuo

    Tickatus Warlock was prevalent after the Boggspine Knuckles nerf, when the meta was still settling. It's all but disappeared in higher ranks now as other decks have risen up to beat it back down. It's not very good. 

    It's annoying to play against, yes, but I don't think a card that's in a tier 3 deck should be nerfed, unless players eventually find a broken combo with this that lets it burn your entire deck before turn 10. If I had to nerf it though, I'd reduce the number of burned cards to 3. That would really worsen the card, though. 

    Ultimately, a game is designed to make money out of people's enjoyment, and any card that seriously hampers that should be looked at.

    Most cards/decks that people hate are only really hated because they are top tier and we have to play against them over and over again. It takes a really awful design to be tier 3 and still generate this much hate. That makes it just a fundamentally unfun card, and cards have been nerfed for that in the past.

    While there are certainly people who love the card (it is more accurate to describe it as polarising than hated), it is such a selfish enjoyment that I cannot really accept that as a reason to leave it as it is. And I don't mean its selfish in the sense that you want to win the game - every card is aimed at doing that - I mean its selfish in that you are actively denying the opponent the chance to play the deck they made. Nobody queues into ladder without the express intention of playing the cards they put in their deck. Some disruption is fine, decks can work around that, but burning 2x5 cards is way too much to compensate for. It's the HS equivalent of a bully taking a kid's lunch and throwing it in the bin. Nobody thinks the bully is in the right there, even if they did have fun doing it.

    Needless to say, I absolutely loathe the card...

    0
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1140 1969 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Tetsuo

    Tickatus Warlock was prevalent after the Boggspine Knuckles nerf, when the meta was still settling. It's all but disappeared in higher ranks now as other decks have risen up to beat it back down. It's not very good. 

    It's annoying to play against, yes, but I don't think a card that's in a tier 3 deck should be nerfed, unless players eventually find a broken combo with this that lets it burn your entire deck before turn 10. If I had to nerf it though, I'd reduce the number of burned cards to 3. That would really worsen the card, though. 

    Its tier2 via galakrond warlock. And that's the stronger archetype, so I think tickatus should be judged by that deck unless stated directly.

    In any case, the only main reason why its not higher is obviously due to its weakness to aggro and face decks. Outside of that, it's pretty much competitive in my opinion.

    0
  • Zyella's Avatar Valeera 440 338 Posts Joined 10/16/2020
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Alfi
    Quote From iWatchUSleep

    But... The deck isn't even that good? It gets countered by so much. So much so that it's barely even tier 3.

    It can be not the best devk but if it feels bad to play against it is uncool, to

    Loosing feels bad ,doesn mean we should nerf evrything people losoe to(not that some people in community wont argue that cause lost to a deck it should imeadtly be nerfed

    1
  • Zyella's Avatar Valeera 440 338 Posts Joined 10/16/2020
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From PopeNeia

    Well the problem with Tickatus is that he has such an unfun and anti-control/combo design that I am not sure whether it can even be salvaged.

    I would suggest lowering its stats by a huge amount, to maybe a 3/3 or a 4/4 when corrupted. And maybe decreasing the amount of cards it burns. This gives control decks more breathing room to try and kill the Warlock before they lose all of their cards and also forces the Warlock to make a choice between playing Tickatus or losing the board.

     

    6 mana 4/4 that burns 3 onyl afetr youve played a 7 drop would be absolutly terrible though. just comapre to Gnomeferatu.

    Thats not nerfing the card, thats deleting it.

    2
  • Thraxus's Avatar 835 123 Posts Joined 05/08/2020
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Standard problems :) If you think Tickatus Warlock is an unfun archetype then I invite you to Wild ladder to enjoy our beloved Big Priest. Joke aside, while I totally agree that Tickatus is a stupid and unfun card i think the threshold for a nerf should be a bit higher than this. After all fun is a subjective category. If a nerf should happen i think just tuning down the number of milled cards to 3 would be the best option (as others already pointed out). That would not outright kill it but diminish its impact on control and potential as an alternative win condition.

    P.S. In Wild it is obviously not a problem. I even considered it for a Big Priest hate deck (he cannot resurrect what is burned) but that seemed too slow and inconsistent.

    English is not my native language, so please excuse occasional mistakes

    1
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 795 732 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Alfi
    Quote From iWatchUSleep

    But... The deck isn't even that good? It gets countered by so much. So much so that it's barely even tier 3.

    It can be not the best devk but if it feels bad to play against it is uncool, to

    Uncool =/= needs to be nerfed.

    The only three nerfs I recall that weren't because the decks were blatantly overpowered were: Barnes, The Caverns Below and Shudderwock.

    Shudderwock was a literal broken card that took up entire extended turns just to otk the opponent which made it super flawed.

    Barnes was nerfed because of its stupid high-roll potential from as early as turn 3 onwards, paired with a unhealthy high mulligan winrate and a deck it was super popular in, albeit the deck wasn't very good, but generally managed to abuse the high-roll potential of the card to the absolute max.

    And lastly there's Quest Rogue. This is the deck I'd compare Tickatus most to. A card that sort of invalidates control decks. Two differences here are that Galakrond warlock (the deck Tickatus is used in most) isn't super popular and still allows for counterplay. If the warlock doesn't draw that single card early enough, it can easily be outpressured by a different control deck and still lose to them. Unlike Quest Rogue which was ridiculously consistent and couldn't really lose against slow decks.

    So that leaves Tickatus and the deck it belongs into as a control deck with a win-condition against slow decks. Exactly like control warrior. The only difference is seeing your cards get milled feels bad.

    Does that warrant a nerf? Not at all, in my opinion.

    2
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