How to counter the lategame? Is Mojomaster Zihi any good?

  • Elfensilver's Avatar 590 663 Posts Joined 03/14/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    As a lot of decks feature some kind of N'Zoth+Sylvannas+Khartut Defender-package right now, so how do you counter this massive swing turns? Especially resurection priest does really unholy things with some spells drawn into the mix. 

     

    So, to counter this, has anybody tried Mojomaster Zihi? I suppose she could be good in a rogue deck, where you can bounce and shuffle her back, ever denying a 9 or 10 manaplay for your opponent.

    What would then be my decks win condition? Please contribute with any ideas you may have how to build a deck that never reaches 9/10 mana, and capitalises on a opponent's full hand, as well has some cheap resource generation.

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  • KANSAS's Avatar Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    I crafted the Mojo master a while back, played him in a couple of rounds and I didn't like him. I have't found a deck he'd be good in, he is just way to clunky being a 6 mana 5/5. I just don't think there can exist a deck that can afford to play that kind of minion and also wants both players to keep at low mana. 

    Don't craft him, save yourself the disappointment.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

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  • doingtheobvious's Avatar 1155 814 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Zihi is okay-ish if you run a aggro-to-midrange lists. For example, Even Shaman.

    Issue is most of the lists that can get the most mileage out of her are exclusively Wild, and that is mostly on paper. In practice Zihi has yet to really find a niche where she really shines.

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  • AliRadicali's Avatar 460 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    If you want to target res priest specifically, I'd say you're better off wrecking their resurrection pool with Plague of Murlocs and Hex. Mojomaster Zihi is a very niche tech card that works best against OTK combo decks by giving you an extra few turns to close out the game. On paper, sure, it's supposed to be good if your opponent has expensive stuff and you're playing aggro, but I've found it rather underwhelming in that capacity: once you've reached the point where restricting your opponent's mana by putting them one ahead of you sounds enticing you're probably not in the best place to begin with as an aggro deck. Not to mention the fact that you don't want to glut an aggro deck with weird, situational lategame cards. I certainly wouldn't craft a Zihi just for this Doom in the Tomb meta.

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  • SaucyPup's Avatar 170 57 Posts Joined 04/01/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Tinkmaster Overspark

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  • Zelgadis's Avatar Wizard 950 705 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    I don't think you can beat the very late game (N'Zoth) unless you're playing either a greedier N'Zoth deck or a combo deck. So for other decks, the goal is to kill them before they either reach 10 mana and have drawn deep enough into their deck to find N'Zoth.

    As others have said, transform effects like Hex, Polymorph and Tinkmaster Overspark help to both neutralize deathrattles and screw up resurrects.

    You could also consider silence, in particular Ironbeak Owl (drawable via The Curator) or Shieldbreaker. Since Khartut Defender is such a key card for slower decks to survive into the late game, taking that out might be enough for an aggro or mid-range deck to finish them off before the late-game value becomes too much.

    Some aggro decks use Octosari to refill their hand. It allows them to spend a lot of cards in the early game without running out of steam too early. This won't help in the very late game, but it can give them a few extra turns of pressure in the hope of running the opponent out of removal.

     

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  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 865 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    In Wild, Zihi in Even Paladin has won me some games against OTK decks.

    Not so strong against Midrange/Control, since they have more resources, and can typically just wait and kill you later.

    In that case you need a strong swing turn of your own right after Zihi (and hope it is enough).

    In general, i'd suggest to just build a strong Aggro deck with Silence tech cards, Spellbreaker and even Shieldbreaker, if the Wall of the Dead is so popular.

    And/or Plague of Murlocs in a Murloc deck.

     

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  • drfelip's Avatar Dragon Scholar 365 289 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Well, the problem with Zihi is that it also hurts your mana, so it may mostly fit in a deck playing mostly cheap cards, so something quite aggro. I don't think you need to bounce it back or shuffle it back: just play aggressively, play Zihi to avoid your opponent play his/her win condition turn 8-9 and try to finish your opponent before s/he is able again to play the win condition. The problem is that most aggro decks are already out of resources by turn 8, so it does not help a lot.

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

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  • RandomGuy's Avatar 430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    What are you playing? Is it a deck that can pressure Priest well enough for the extra Zihi turns to matter?

    The best way to beat priest is to play one of the decks that don't care about attacking them until you win.

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  • Elfensilver's Avatar 590 663 Posts Joined 03/14/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    I'm playing a few decks a the moment, just wanted to see whether this random legendary I got may fit anywhere.

     

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  • Iplaywhite's Avatar Academy Sleuth 405 143 Posts Joined 06/10/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    It's not great, OTK killer mainly (think Malygos)

    "Soon we must all make the choice between what is right and what is easy"

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  • Bersak's Avatar Magma Rager 720 426 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    N‘Zoth - backstab - Toggwaggls scheme and off you go. This counters every lategame that is not otk

    Winner winner chicken dinner

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  • RandomGuy's Avatar 430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Bersak

    N‘Zoth - backstab - Toggwaggls scheme and off you go. This counters every lategame that is not otk

    what do you need the backstab for?

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  • Bersak's Avatar Magma Rager 720 426 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Dumb me, shadowstep ofc. I run two of them. You obviously can play Nzoth again and on top of that combo it with the scheme due to mana discoun

    Winner winner chicken dinner

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  • RandomGuy's Avatar 430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Ah makes much more sense. But yeah - that deck dumpsters lategame decks that don't play maly.

    I wonder if it can ever find a good enough balance to have more reasonable game against aggro. It'd be a terrifying deck at that point.

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  • Lachlion's Avatar 210 59 Posts Joined 07/11/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    I find it crazy that essentially two neutral cards are shaping such a large part of the meta. I loved the wild cards initially, but i'm now thinking that Yog would have been a better choice purely due to the defender + n'zoth combo for any deck. Rogue's playing a late game control now purely because of tog's scheme - hate to shout it again but thats some bullshit class identity there.

     

    The only counter I can think of that could consistently beat it would be transforming the defender, stalling long enough for an OTK like Maly Druid, or a hyperaggro deck (basically just murlocs atm) 

    combo disrupters currently arnt consistant enough to be a counter imo. none stand up to Dirt Rat - anybody have any good suggestions? I'm thinking of making a control shaman counter build to n'zoth but very open if anybody has good alternate suggestions. 

    Don't Read This Sentence.

    You Rebel. I like you. 

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  • Zwane's Avatar Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    One way to counter those infinite Nzoth decks is to have a Mecha'thun otk ready at the end of your deck. As a mage I only need to have two spells and Emperor Thaurissan and Mecha'thun in my deck. The spells and Thaurissan are good cards in any matchup so not really a waste, so it only costs me one slot.  I added it to a flamewaker/cyclone deck where rushing through all the cheap spells in your deck is a real possibility. Then, once your deck is near depletion and the opponent is still alive, you can always finish him off with your otk combo. And they will not see it coming, since combo plays all from hand in 1 turn. Earned me a couple of "Wow..."s :)

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  • Lachlion's Avatar 210 59 Posts Joined 07/11/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Its a nice idea, when fighting against tempo mage you tend to focus your efforts on killing anything they play to prevent value rather than going face, and just kill them when they're out of resources. 

    On your decklist you've only played three games - have you played anymore/made any changes? 

    Also are two snap freezes needed? surely a fireball or 2 would be better with just 1 snap freeze for the combo.

    I like this as a multi win condition counter to n'zoths either burning them early or otk late, will prob give it a go over the weekend 

    Don't Read This Sentence.

    You Rebel. I like you. 

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  • FieselFitz's Avatar Prince Charming 1100 1355 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Well, Zihi is decent for aggro decks against control but nothing more. I tried him in Aggro and Zoo-ish decks and he does well against control but that's it. 

    So i guess you could also play without him. 

    Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!

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