New Mage Spell - Vast Wisdom

March of the Lich King
  • Arthas's Avatar Black Lotus 1215 4971 Posts Joined 03/10/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago

    A new Rare Mage Spell, Vast Wisdom, has been revealed!

    Vast Wisdom Card Image

    Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!


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  • LarryMoments's Avatar Design Finalist 295 68 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago

    This has to be one of the worst cards I've seen.

    If I had a 0-star rating, I'd give it to this one. Why would anyone include this in their decks?

    "From break and ruin, the most beautiful performance begins"

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  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1810 4634 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Its a fine card, because basically it discovers 2 spells. The fact that the pool is restricted means you'll likely find what you need, like another Arcane Bolt or even Frozen Touch. Menacingly this can also get you secrets, which can help with mind games.

    But the problem is very stark; where does this fit in? Spooky mage doesnt need it, not relevant in big spell mage, so the only natural fit is in XL decks, which pretty much sums up the problem itself. I can see this being a choice discover option, but inclusion into decks is a bit of a stretch.

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  • LarryMoments's Avatar Design Finalist 295 68 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    it discovers two spells and then... what? You still paid 3 mana to cast a spell that you'd easily put into your deck or maybe even Discover or draw from another card, like Runed Orb, Spellcoiler, Deepwater Evoker, Arcanologist, Nerubian Vizier, School Teacher, much better cards to get spells, with Vast Wisdom you get... 0 mana advantage or potential value from it at most, well, 0 mana advantage + a dead card that you'll probably wont want to play unless you have leftover mana in your reserves since otherwise playing it normally feelsbad.

    Hell, even Warlock had a Discover 2 cards card (Twisted Knowledge) for 2 mana, and that only saw play for a brief time. Arcane Intellect is also a card that gets you two cards that would be most certainly useful from your deck.

    In wild, you have cards like Primordial Glyph which is basically free spell from three choices, Evocation, Magic Trick, Starscryer and many, many, many more cards that can do a much better job than this at creating spells.
    ...Apologies if its a bit long, but it really feels like it Discovered spells of higher cost (ill say 5, at most), the team feared that it'd be too powerful, and then changed it so that no one could potentially abuse it in any kind of dirty plays. I'm really sorry, I just really think this card is that bad unless it gets buffed to.. idk, 4 mana or less, maybe then I can see fringe cases of use.

    "From break and ruin, the most beautiful performance begins"

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  • Me0203's Avatar 725 454 Posts Joined 06/13/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    I really wish this were a 2-mana discover 2-mana cards, instead. If the odds of finding direct damage like Frozen Touch were higher, there'd be a reason to include it in decks. As is, though, I think Larry is right. You'd much rather play a body that discovers a spell, i.e. Venomous Scorpid, than discover two spells. If you even want to do that!

    Better call Thrall!

     

     

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  • Skorpionex's Avatar Headless Horseman 1420 374 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago
    Quote From LarryMoments

    This has to be one of the worst cards I've seen.

    If I had a 0-star rating, I'd give it to this one. Why would anyone include this in their decks?

    Because it's discover? And discovering is always good, especially in mage. More Frozen Touches or Wildfires.

    What's the most powerful card in Hearthstone?

    A credit card.

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  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1810 4634 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago
    Quote From LarryMoments

    Show Spoiler
    it discovers two spells and then… what? You still paid 3 mana to cast a spell that you'd easily put into your deck or maybe even Discover or draw from another card, like Runed Orb, Spellcoiler, Deepwater Evoker, Arcanologist, Nerubian Vizier, School Teacher, much better cards to get spells, with Vast Wisdom you get… 0 mana advantage or potential value from it at most, well, 0 mana advantage + a dead card that you'll probably wont want to play unless you have leftover mana in your reserves since otherwise playing it normally feelsbad.

    Hell, even Warlock had a Discover 2 cards card (Twisted Knowledge) for 2 mana, and that only saw play for a brief time. Arcane Intellect is also a card that gets you two cards that would be most certainly useful from your deck.

    In wild, you have cards like Primordial Glyph which is basically free spell from three choices, Evocation, Magic Trick, Starscryer and many, many, many more cards that can do a much better job than this at creating spells.
    …Apologies if its a bit long, but it really feels like it Discovered spells of higher cost (ill say 5, at most), the team feared that it'd be too powerful, and then changed it so that no one could potentially abuse it in any kind of dirty plays. I'm really sorry, I just really think this card is that bad unless it gets buffed to.. idk, 4 mana or less, maybe then I can see fringe cases of use.

    It didn't work for warlock because most warlock cards tend to have drawbacks, and warlock draws so effortlessly it never seemed reasonable to do it. Just tap hero power, that's the same net gain of cards.

    But for mage however, discovering spells is often very dangerous, because mage has plenty of damage and stall spells. Imagine getting a third Solid Alibi, or even just plain secret like Counterspell. That's game defining stuff. Mage being one of the few classes that can consistently get away with off tempo plays, so paying 3 mana to do nothing is not unreasonable.

    That said, I have misgivings for this card's viability, not because of powerlevel, but because its mostly redundant. Where would such a card be played? Likely only in XL decks and that's because of the 10 additional card slots.

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  • Caro's Avatar Champion of the Frozen Wastes 2070 2092 Posts Joined 03/12/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    I can imagine some Trolden highlights off this spell. Like you'll be able to find exact lethal or stall to win the game. As for where this spell fits though... maybe a reno/renathal deck? And most times you'd want to pick a 3 mana spell, so swapping their costs doesn't really do anything amazing. 

    Also, it's quaint to see Varden make an appearance again, and it fits thematically. 

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  • LarryMoments's Avatar Design Finalist 295 68 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Show Spoiler

    Quote From Skorpionex
    Quote From LarryMoments

    This has to be one of the worst cards I've seen.

    If I had a 0-star rating, I'd give it to this one. Why would anyone include this in their decks?

    Because it's discover? And discovering is always good, especially in mage. More Frozen Touches or Wildfires.

     

    You're paying 3 mana for an overpriced, double Magic Trick at best. When you can use Arcane Intellect to either draw them, something else from your deck that might be useful or get closer to your win condition (or draw it) in some sort of way.

    If you Discover a 3 and 0 cost card (12 out of 27 and 2 out of 27, respectively.), you just paid 3 mana for a 3 mana spell and you get a dead card in your hand which feels bad to play.

    If you Discover a 1 and 2 cost card, congratulations, you just paid 1 mana less for a 2 cost spell, for 3 mana.

    If you Discover cards of the same cost, then yeah, just paid for an overpriced double Magic Trick.

    These cases are bad, but what's worse is that they're inconsistent and randomized. You don't know what you'll get, you don't know if you'll get your answer amongst these options, and even if you get them, its not good in any case or circumstance except the rare clip.


    idk if quoting two people makes the whole post away and im not gonna risk it lol but

    dapperdog does bring a good point, knowledge didn't see play because it was redundant, it was 2 cards and that's good, but it was rebundant in a class with a hero power that draws. It only saw play in one deck that cared about cards (I think it was Plot Twist Warlock?) and that's it.

    The same point can be applied here, its redundant because there are many ways you can Discover cheap answers or potential win conditions already, and an awful one on top of that ain't gonna make the cut in any deck in its current state. It brings no value, no mana advantage, just put the spell in your deck or have a way to draw/get it, its much more consistent than relying on this card to hit.

    I don't even think this should be 2 mana Discover (2) cost or less, making it cost 2 mana would be good value for the current year, a bit redundant but it would feel less bad to play than its current iteration.

    "From break and ruin, the most beautiful performance begins"

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  • Horus's Avatar Wizard 2475 3003 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    On one hand, you are discovering 2 spells, which can be immensely valuable, but on the other, swapping cost for 2 cheap spell under (3) mana seems like a useless step ... But at least you still discover 2, so there is that; generate secrets and/or extra burst!

    Struggle with Heroic Galakrond's Awakening? I got your back : 

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  • GoddammitDontShootMe's Avatar Devoted Oceanographer 1875 1250 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    3 mana discover two cheap spells seems alright, since Mage's pool is mostly good, but I'm not sure what the point of the swapping part is. Was the card too boring just discovering the spells?

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  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar Skeleton 1955 4474 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 6 days, 1 hour ago

    On one hand it's cool to be able to play a 3-mana card for less, but at the same time this is basically just School Teacher but not as good. It's fun at least.

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

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  • Brandon's Avatar Old God Fanatic 1225 1987 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 days, 2 hours ago

    3 mana discover 2 cards seems interesting, especially with the Casino mage package. This can also discover 2 secrets which can be repeated with Grand Magister Rommath. Who doesn't love random Counterspells and Objection!.

    I think this will see play in casino mage at the very least.

    RNG is only fun as long as there is a 50/50 chance of getting something really good or trash level of bad. If RNG always results in something good, then it's not fun.

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