Quest Hate

United in Stormwind
  • OldenGolden's Avatar
    Snow-Covered 685 120 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    Is it too early to already want a separate, no-quest ladder? I can't believe how fast I have come to hate this expansion, due to every single game I play involving a quest, and the fact that these quests essentially complete themselves with plain draw RNG. All you do is watch your warrior/hunter/warlock/mage opponent throw their crap down every turn, and hope your bullshit RNG is better than their bullshit RNG, and that's the game. This is, to me, going to be the least interactive, least interesting meta that has ever existed in this game, and I'm already getting sick of it, and I actually feel ashamed when I play that stupid pirate warrior. Please give me hope that the team will step in quickly and make some of these slightly more challenging to complete.

    3
  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    It's funny how grossly the community under-rated these. Before the expansion the overall sentiment was that quests would be ridiculously slow and that by the time they were completed the game would be over. But as it turns out, the majority of these can be completed before turn 7-8 fairly consistently.

    In terms of the meta, things are still being figured out and new decks will still have to be tested and refined, but mages do seem to be over powered and should probably be nerfed soon. I'm guessing they'll hit Incanter's Flow since it isn't a new card and has been shown to be borderline broken in the past.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    3
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar
    Skeleton 1915 4024 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From KANSAS

    It's funny how grossly the community under-rated these. Before the expansion the overall sentiment was that quests would be ridiculously slow and that by the time they were completed the game would be over. But as it turns out, the majority of these can be completed before turn 7-8 fairly consistently.

    In terms of the meta, things are still being figured out and new decks will still have to be tested and refined, but mages do seem to be over powered and should probably be nerfed soon. I'm guessing they'll hit Incanter's Flow since it isn't a new card and has been shown to be borderline broken in the past.

    Hitting just Flow won't do shit.

    They have to get rid of Flow, then make it so the Quest steps need to be completed in one turn (there is no other way, the quest will always get completed on turn 6 or 7 otherwise) and finally reduce the Spell Damage to +2 because +3 is retarded in a world where Cram Session exists.

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    5
  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From KANSAS

    It's funny how grossly the community under-rated these. Before the expansion the overall sentiment was that quests would be ridiculously slow and that by the time they were completed the game would be over. But as it turns out, the majority of these can be completed before turn 7-8 fairly consistently.

    In terms of the meta, things are still being figured out and new decks will still have to be tested and refined, but mages do seem to be over powered and should probably be nerfed soon. I'm guessing they'll hit Incanter's Flow since it isn't a new card and has been shown to be borderline broken in the past.

    Hitting just Flow won't do shit.

    They have to get rid of Flow, then make it so the Quest steps need to be completed in one turn (there is no other way, the quest will always get completed on turn 6 or 7 otherwise) and finally reduce the Spell Damage to +2 because +3 is retarded in a world where Cram Session exists.

    They will definitely need to hit more than a single card, I'm just not sure exactly what the other cards might be.

    At this point Incanter's Flow feels obvious, especially with the new shaman elemental doing the same thing for double the cost. If they nerf the quest I believe the most likely thing would be reducing the spell damage to +2. Changing it to make all 3 spells have to be cast in a single turn is less likely. I would rather see mages nerfed to reduce their capacity to cast lots of spells in a single turn rather then force them to cast lots of spells in a single turn. If they wanted to slow mages down I think they would target cards like Ray of Frost, Hot Streak, or First Flame. Another option would be to simply reduce mages draw by hitting Cram Session or Font of Power.

    My personal nerf list is: 1) Incanter's Flow nerfed to 4 mana. 2) Ray of Frost and First Flame each have their second version nerfed to 2 mana. 3) Cram Session nerfed to 3 mana.

    I don't really want to nerf the quest since it is legendary and blizzard would rather avoid nerfing legendaries if possible, but also because there are a lot of factors that go into whether or not a quest is viable, and I would like to see how it plays out when mages don't have access to tons of other over powered spells.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    0
  • dapperdog's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 1600 3978 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    I was wondering when someone would start a post like this.

    Its the start of the expansion, and people are still playing around with quests because its the new thing in town. But like all things pretty and new its only a matter of time before no one gives a shit and starts playing to win.

    Quest are currently viable because the meta is slow enough to allow it, thanks in no small part because everyone else is playing quest decks as well. You'll be lucky to see a minion drop before turn 3. Once everything is cleared up Im sure the meta would be more diverse than what it looks now.

     

    In a separate note, is everyone sleeping on quest shaman? I havent seen a single hate directed at it so far, and after playing it for 3 hours I think its even more powerful than mage.

     

    5
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar
    Skeleton 1915 4024 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From KANSAS
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From KANSAS

    It's funny how grossly the community under-rated these. Before the expansion the overall sentiment was that quests would be ridiculously slow and that by the time they were completed the game would be over. But as it turns out, the majority of these can be completed before turn 7-8 fairly consistently.

    In terms of the meta, things are still being figured out and new decks will still have to be tested and refined, but mages do seem to be over powered and should probably be nerfed soon. I'm guessing they'll hit Incanter's Flow since it isn't a new card and has been shown to be borderline broken in the past.

    Hitting just Flow won't do shit.

    They have to get rid of Flow, then make it so the Quest steps need to be completed in one turn (there is no other way, the quest will always get completed on turn 6 or 7 otherwise) and finally reduce the Spell Damage to +2 because +3 is retarded in a world where Cram Session exists.

    They will definitely need to hit more than a single card, I'm just not sure exactly what the other cards might be.

    At this point Incanter's Flow feels obvious, especially with the new shaman elemental doing the same thing for double the cost. If they nerf the quest I believe the most likely thing would be reducing the spell damage to +2. Changing it to make all 3 spells have to be cast in a single turn is less likely. I would rather see mages nerfed to reduce their capacity to cast lots of spells in a single turn rather then force them to cast lots of spells in a single turn. If they wanted to slow mages down I think they would target cards like Ray of Frost, Hot Streak, or First Flame. Another option would be to simply reduce mages draw by hitting Cram Session or Font of Power.

    My personal nerf list is: 1) Incanter's Flow nerfed to 4 mana. 2) Ray of Frost and First Flame each have their second version nerfed to 2 mana. 3) Cram Session nerfed to 3 mana.

    I don't really want to nerf the quest since it is legendary and blizzard would rather avoid nerfing legendaries if possible, but also because there are a lot of factors that go into whether or not a quest is viable, and I would like to see how it plays out when mages don't have access to tons of other over powered spells.

    No no no, we're not doing the Barrens nerf again where the obvious issue (Incanter's Flow) gets ignored and another card becomes collateral which ruins every other Mage deck that might have used it. The Quest is very obviously the issue here and Flow is part of the problem. Cram Session is a perfectly fine card as long as spell damage comes with an actual cost and counterplay. The same goes for all the other new cards including Ignite. They're literally balanced around not having permanent +3 damage so get rid of that part. Just nuke it like the Priest Quest. It's not a playstyle that should exist, the old Freeze Mage got yeeted for this exact reason.

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    1
  • KANSAS's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1745 2912 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From KANSAS
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From KANSAS

    It's funny how grossly the community under-rated these. Before the expansion the overall sentiment was that quests would be ridiculously slow and that by the time they were completed the game would be over. But as it turns out, the majority of these can be completed before turn 7-8 fairly consistently.

    In terms of the meta, things are still being figured out and new decks will still have to be tested and refined, but mages do seem to be over powered and should probably be nerfed soon. I'm guessing they'll hit Incanter's Flow since it isn't a new card and has been shown to be borderline broken in the past.

    Hitting just Flow won't do shit.

    They have to get rid of Flow, then make it so the Quest steps need to be completed in one turn (there is no other way, the quest will always get completed on turn 6 or 7 otherwise) and finally reduce the Spell Damage to +2 because +3 is retarded in a world where Cram Session exists.

    They will definitely need to hit more than a single card, I'm just not sure exactly what the other cards might be.

    At this point Incanter's Flow feels obvious, especially with the new shaman elemental doing the same thing for double the cost. If they nerf the quest I believe the most likely thing would be reducing the spell damage to +2. Changing it to make all 3 spells have to be cast in a single turn is less likely. I would rather see mages nerfed to reduce their capacity to cast lots of spells in a single turn rather then force them to cast lots of spells in a single turn. If they wanted to slow mages down I think they would target cards like Ray of Frost, Hot Streak, or First Flame. Another option would be to simply reduce mages draw by hitting Cram Session or Font of Power.

    My personal nerf list is: 1) Incanter's Flow nerfed to 4 mana. 2) Ray of Frost and First Flame each have their second version nerfed to 2 mana. 3) Cram Session nerfed to 3 mana.

    I don't really want to nerf the quest since it is legendary and blizzard would rather avoid nerfing legendaries if possible, but also because there are a lot of factors that go into whether or not a quest is viable, and I would like to see how it plays out when mages don't have access to tons of other over powered spells.

    No no no, we're not doing the Barrens nerf again where the obvious issue (Incanter's Flow) gets ignored and another card becomes collateral which ruins every other Mage deck that might have used it. The Quest is very obviously the issue here and Flow is part of the problem. Cram Session is a perfectly fine card as long as spell damage comes with an actual cost and counterplay. The same goes for all the other new cards including Ignite. They're literally balanced around not having permanent +3 damage so get rid of that part. Just nuke it like the Priest Quest. It's not a playstyle that should exist, the old Freeze Mage got yeeted for this exact reason.

    That's fair. I would still like to see Incanter's Flow nerfed just to reduce mages capacity to cheat out stupid amounts of spells in a single turn, but you are probably right that the quest should be nerfed. There are two avenues that can be taken, either embrace the fact that the quest is super easy to complete and reduce the spell damage to make the quest more reliable but less powerful. Or embrace the fact that the reward is crazy powerful and make the quest significantly harder to complete to make the deck more combo oriented.

     

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    0
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar
    Skeleton 1915 4024 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From KANSAS
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From KANSAS
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From KANSAS

    It's funny how grossly the community under-rated these. Before the expansion the overall sentiment was that quests would be ridiculously slow and that by the time they were completed the game would be over. But as it turns out, the majority of these can be completed before turn 7-8 fairly consistently.

    In terms of the meta, things are still being figured out and new decks will still have to be tested and refined, but mages do seem to be over powered and should probably be nerfed soon. I'm guessing they'll hit Incanter's Flow since it isn't a new card and has been shown to be borderline broken in the past.

    Hitting just Flow won't do shit.

    They have to get rid of Flow, then make it so the Quest steps need to be completed in one turn (there is no other way, the quest will always get completed on turn 6 or 7 otherwise) and finally reduce the Spell Damage to +2 because +3 is retarded in a world where Cram Session exists.

    They will definitely need to hit more than a single card, I'm just not sure exactly what the other cards might be.

    At this point Incanter's Flow feels obvious, especially with the new shaman elemental doing the same thing for double the cost. If they nerf the quest I believe the most likely thing would be reducing the spell damage to +2. Changing it to make all 3 spells have to be cast in a single turn is less likely. I would rather see mages nerfed to reduce their capacity to cast lots of spells in a single turn rather then force them to cast lots of spells in a single turn. If they wanted to slow mages down I think they would target cards like Ray of Frost, Hot Streak, or First Flame. Another option would be to simply reduce mages draw by hitting Cram Session or Font of Power.

    My personal nerf list is: 1) Incanter's Flow nerfed to 4 mana. 2) Ray of Frost and First Flame each have their second version nerfed to 2 mana. 3) Cram Session nerfed to 3 mana.

    I don't really want to nerf the quest since it is legendary and blizzard would rather avoid nerfing legendaries if possible, but also because there are a lot of factors that go into whether or not a quest is viable, and I would like to see how it plays out when mages don't have access to tons of other over powered spells.

    No no no, we're not doing the Barrens nerf again where the obvious issue (Incanter's Flow) gets ignored and another card becomes collateral which ruins every other Mage deck that might have used it. The Quest is very obviously the issue here and Flow is part of the problem. Cram Session is a perfectly fine card as long as spell damage comes with an actual cost and counterplay. The same goes for all the other new cards including Ignite. They're literally balanced around not having permanent +3 damage so get rid of that part. Just nuke it like the Priest Quest. It's not a playstyle that should exist, the old Freeze Mage got yeeted for this exact reason.

    That's fair. I would still like to see Incanter's Flow nerfed just to reduce mages capacity to cheat out stupid amounts of spells in a single turn, but you are probably right that the quest should be nerfed. There are two avenues that can be taken, either embrace the fact that the quest is super easy to complete and reduce the spell damage to make the quest more reliable but less powerful. Or embrace the fact that the reward is crazy powerful and make the quest significantly harder to complete to make the deck more combo oriented.

     

    Oh don't worry, I'M with you on Flow, that thing is independently overpowered, i'm just saying that nerfing it won't actually fix the Quest problem. Technically they could get away with leaving Flow untouched if the Quest gets nerfed into the ground, but Flow will break the game again sooner or later (unless the next expansion only prints minions for Mage)

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    0
  • FieselFitz's Avatar
    Prince Charming 1045 1261 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    Well so far im realy enjoying the Decks the Stormwind Expansion brought us  - and also enjoy the new Quests - sureley some are stronger than expected but right now i'm having so much fun i cannot see the hate some of the cards get - maybe except Incanter's Flow because that could or even should have been nerfed before.

    I do not understand why peoply go cry after day 1 about certain decks etc - the meta hasn't even settled yet - and at least on Europe Server I've been seeing a lot of different decks - sure most of them with Questines but that's ok because they are a new thing and sureley enough people wanna try them out and have fun with them. 

     

    Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!

    0
  • Brandon's Avatar
    Old God Fanatic 1165 1644 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    Personally i have been really enjoying the expansion so far, really enjoying The Demon Seed in standard right now. And honestly i rather wait untill the meta settles before begging for nerfs. However i do agree that some quests, like the Mage questline is a bit strong. But it's not just Mage, A lot of quest rewards are good because you can just burst your opponent down from cards in hand. There are not that many minions played, or boards to be fought over. It honestly makes the game feel like it's a game of solitaire.

    The game feels very fun to play casually right now (which i like), but if your very competative then i imagine that these kind of non-interactive decks might be very annoying/frustrating to face. Also with all this burst we might as well bury the idea of there being Control decks for once and for all. :( 

    Oh and about Incanter's Flow: PLEASE. That card keeps breaking stuff, and honestly it will keep doing that unless it gets addressed. Either that or there going to nerf every mage spell in the game by 1 mana, including 10 cost spells to 11 mana. (Which baffling enough wouldnt even surprise me these days.)

    But having said that, lets wait until the meta settles before we start complaining and begging for nerfs. 

    RNG is only fun as long as there is a 50/50 chance of getting something really good or trash level of bad. If RNG always results in something good, then it's not fun.

    3
  • PopeNeia's Avatar
    Darkmaster 580 802 Posts Joined 07/06/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    I think the HS team really screwed up with the entire expansion here. Because if Mage gets nerfed, then Warlock will need to be nerfed as well because that deck is disgustingly strong and only being held back by Mage. And then if it’s not Mage/Warlock it will be Shaman and so on… everything is at way too high of a power level right now,

    This ain't no place for a hero

    4
  • Kirigunn's Avatar
    95 13 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    Warlock isn't held up only by Mage. I eat Quest Locks with QDruid/QRogue/Garrote Rogue. 

    On topic, I played QMage for a day, and novelty wore off pretty quick. It's a super boring deck with a super boring mirror match. Worst thing about it, is that it effectively shuts down pretty much anything minion based.  

    1
  • dapperdog's Avatar
    Dragon Scholar 1600 3978 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From PopeNeia

    I think the HS team really screwed up with the entire expansion here. Because if Mage gets nerfed, then Warlock will need to be nerfed as well because that deck is disgustingly strong and only being held back by Mage. And then if it’s not Mage/Warlock it will be Shaman and so on… everything is at way too high of a power level right now,

    Not really. Questlock doesn't have the infinite board clears, and if you ooze their mithril rod its really too slow to stop all those minions on board. No doubt the current built is unpolished because mage is practically everywhere, but I wouldn't call questlock OP.

    The real problem currently is mage. Interestingly, the current quest mage build actually has minions because everyone is simply not playing minions to stop mage from finishing the quest. You really can't play against mage with minions at all because they cycle so well, so efficiently, and has literally infinite damage. Every deck by default has to have Cult Neophyte or some burst option for the end game because the later you go the more impossible it is to stick minions.

    Currently mage beats everything cleanly except for doomhammer shaman and quest druid. No elaborations required.

    0
  • UVE's Avatar
    1160 806 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    Hearthstone becomes a crazy uninteractive solitarie mode with that mage/warlock quests, both can end the quest at turn 6-7 and play the reward in the same turn, that doesn't allow to eat it with mutanus or steal it with illucia.

    Warlock is broken, but mage becomes god mode with that quest, just put 25 1-3 mana spells in the deck, and some 4-5 mana burst cards like Fireball and... no more is needed.

    Balance changes never were so necessary.

     

    By The Holy Light!

    1
  • FortyDust's Avatar
    Pumpkin 1135 1644 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago

    It blows my mind that people are complaining about Questlines when there is a reliable turn-6 OTK in the game.

    -3
  • FieselFitz's Avatar
    Prince Charming 1045 1261 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From FortyDust

    It blows my mind that people are complaining about Questlines when there is a reliable turn-6 OTK in the game.

    You talking about standard or wild? because in standard i haven't seen a turn 6 OTK yet!

    Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!

    0
  • Alfi's Avatar
    Devoted Academic 1705 1290 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From FieselFitz
    Quote From FortyDust

    It blows my mind that people are complaining about Questlines when there is a reliable turn-6 OTK in the game.

    You talking about standard or wild? because in standard i haven't seen a turn 6 OTK yet!

    You haven’t seen the Warlock Quest OTK, DH quest OTK and Rogue OTK

    check out the befinning of this video

    -=alfi=-

    0
  • FieselFitz's Avatar
    Prince Charming 1045 1261 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From Alfi
    Quote From FieselFitz
    Quote From FortyDust

    It blows my mind that people are complaining about Questlines when there is a reliable turn-6 OTK in the game.

    You talking about standard or wild? because in standard i haven't seen a turn 6 OTK yet!

    You haven’t seen the Warlock Quest OTK, DH quest OTK and Rogue OTK

    check out the befinning of this video

    Oh ok thanks - the Rogue and Warlock ones are new to me - haven't seen those so far!

    But the Demon Hunter OTK is not new that was in standard before Stormwind. 

    Challenge me ... when you're ready to duel a god!

    0
  • meisterz39's Avatar
    925 1200 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From PopeNeia

    I think the HS team really screwed up with the entire expansion here. Because if Mage gets nerfed, then Warlock will need to be nerfed as well because that deck is disgustingly strong and only being held back by Mage. And then if it’s not Mage/Warlock it will be Shaman and so on… everything is at way too high of a power level right now,

    I tend to think that Mage is actually a big part of what's enabling Quest Warlock decks. Both offer uninteractive win conditions, and both feature tons of card draw, but current incarnations of Quest Warlock are dramatically more vulnerable to aggressive strategies. You can see this a lot in Face Hunter/Quest Warlock matchups - the deck collapses because because by the time they get Stealer of Souls + Draw online, their health is too low to play any of the cards they draw.

    The health costs of cards is a big part of it, but there are other weakpoints in Warlock that Mage lacks. School Spirits is okay as AOE, but Mage has Fire Sale when they need to answer wide boards, and for solitaire match-ups they can just trade it away. Warlock can reduce the cost of cards in hand over time with Runed Mithril Rod, but Mage gets to reduce the cost of literally every card in their deck with Incanter's Flow (a fact that would matter less if they had worse card draw). Warlock is fundamentally a combo deck that relies on several key demons to cascade into its win condition, so you can disrupt them with a fair number of cards (e.g. Glide, Star Student Stelina, Mindrender Illucia, Felsoul Jailer, Mutanus the Devourer). Mage, by contrast, just needs to run a bunch of goods spells (as that naturally gives them lots of access to different types) along with burn for the end game, making it pretty easy for them to play around the few counterplay options that are available (e.g. Oh My Yogg! and Counterspell, and to a lesser extent Cult Neophyte and Ogremancer)

    1
  • Alfi's Avatar
    Devoted Academic 1705 1290 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 10 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From FieselFitz
    Quote From Alfi
    Quote From FieselFitz
    Quote From FortyDust

    It blows my mind that people are complaining about Questlines when there is a reliable turn-6 OTK in the game.

    You talking about standard or wild? because in standard i haven't seen a turn 6 OTK yet!

    You haven’t seen the Warlock Quest OTK, DH quest OTK and Rogue OTK

    check out the befinning of this video

    Oh ok thanks - the Rogue and Warlock ones are new to me - haven't seen those so far!

    But the Demon Hunter OTK is not new that was in standard before Stormwind. 

    Sure it was in standard but usually it was NOT completed by turn 6

    -=alfi=-

    -1
  • Leave a Comment

    You must be signed in to leave a comment. Sign in here.