Balanced Alternate Hero Power Card Idea

  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 695 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    Hi y'all, here's this idea I had for how alternate Hero Powers could be introduced without making them broken like Genn and Baku were:

    The alternate Hero Powers would be along the same power level as the basic Hero Powers, but they would allow for different synergies, like the Hero Powers in the Dalaran Heist. I think this version of the effect is the most balanced, since like quests it takes up a card in your opening hand, and it can only start effecting the game starting on turn 4, which makes it not feel as consistent as Genn and Baku. Also, if it ended up being too good, its stats could easily be reduced to a 3/2 or even a 1/1, making alternate Hero Power decks have an awful early game. What do y'all think? Would this be a healthy way to introduce alternate Hero Powers or would it also end up being too powerful?

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 695 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    Alternatively, its cost could be nerfed to even higher so that its effect comes in later.

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  • Meteorite12's Avatar 670 696 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    Part of the problem with doing different hero powers consistently in a deck is that the classes are all balanced around the starting hero powers. Different hero powers could fill in a weakness in a way that makes the deck too consistent (changing the stats or cost of the card would just make it more of a coin flip)

    Who needs consistency when you could have fun?

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 695 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    How would reducing the stats make it more of a coin flip? It always starts in your opening hand, so there is absolutely no randomness in its effect. If the card itself were weaker then maybe the cost you have to pay to get the alternate Hero Power (having a dead starting card in your opening turn until turn 3) might not be worth the effect.

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 695 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    I guess with low stats it would then be awful against aggro and good against control, but you can say that about any number of cards (such as Justicar Trueheart) that were never an issue

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  • Meteorite12's Avatar 670 696 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago
    Quote From CursedParrot

    How would reducing the stats make it more of a coin flip? It always starts in your opening hand, so there is absolutely no randomness in its effect. If the card itself were weaker then maybe the cost you have to pay to get the alternate Hero Power (having a dead starting card in your opening turn until turn 3) might not be worth the effect.

    It’d end up being you just lose the game from having that dead turn, or the hero power manages to win you that game as it goes on

    Who needs consistency when you could have fun?

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  • Yusuke's Avatar 270 175 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    How this card is balanced, if people cried earlier over Genn and Baku being op? If  those two are OP, then this is for sure. Why?

     

    Genn and Baku restrict the deck building (being odd or even), so you have limited ressources, but this has no disadvantage, but you get this on T2-3.

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  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 865 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    The power of Genn/Baku is that the HP is available from turn-1, where the upgrade is very strong, and can apply early pressure.

    Indeed, look at Justicar Trueheart: even if she started in your hand, she'd be acceptable at best, even if your deck was built around her. Because of her cost.

    All in all, the OP's idea is kept in check by the mana cost of the activator. As long as that is properly balanced (and the alternate HP are not broken themselves) the concept will never be broken.

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  • griffior's Avatar 920 297 Posts Joined 05/31/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    I like the idea of using a different hero power, and I think that most of the people here agree that it's a dangerous thing. That being said, I feel like there needs to be restrictions on what can "enable" that card similar to Genn and Baku.

    Examples:
    Druid: If your spells only summon minions....
    Hunter: If your deck contains no spells....
    Mage: If all the minions in your deck have spell damage +1-4....
    Paladin: If all the minions in your deck cost less than 5....
    Priest:If all the spells in your deck only heal....
    Rogue: If your deck contains at least 5 weapons...
    Shaman: If the spells in your deck all have overloads....
    Warrior: If the minions in your deck are only dragons....
    Warlock: If the minions in your deck cost more than 6.....

    I'm just spit balling those, but I'm sure you get what I'm saying. Whenever you create a card that alters a fundamental aspect of the game, there have to be other balances around that. I know you understand that but not everyone does.

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  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar 360 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    The question that should be asked I think is if these alternate hero powers would only favor control and midrange playstyles. Yes there was the big fear over aggro getting alternate hero powers due to Genn/Baku, but these new hero powers would only benefit one or two playstyles then I feel that it would warp the 'holy trinity' of aggro/midrange/control too much towards the slower decks.

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  • Yusuke's Avatar 270 175 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago
    Quote From Yusuke
    Quote From RavenSunHS

    The power of Genn/Baku is that the HP is available from turn-1, where the upgrade is very strong, and can apply early pressure.

    Indeed, look at Justicar Trueheart: even if she started in your hand, she'd be acceptable at best, even if your deck was built around her. Because of her cost.

    All in all, the OP's idea is kept in check by the mana cost of the activator. As long as that is properly balanced (and the alternate HP are not broken themselves) the concept will never be broken.

    That's why Genn and Baku had a deckbuilding restriction, while Justicar does not. And I guess there are still some niche players, who use Justicar over Baku, at least one DaneHS.

    In addition to that not even every class plays Genn and Baku, because its not worth it for the deckbuilding restriction and no real benefit from the hp. So I say that's why Genn and Baku are balanced.

    While this suggestion is way cheaper, so it can be played earlier, so it shouldn't too good (weaker than quests) and has a on curve body, not like Justicar, who is terribly stated.

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  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 865 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago
    Quote From Yusuke
    Quote From Yusuke
    Quote From RavenSunHS

    The power of Genn/Baku is that the HP is available from turn-1, where the upgrade is very strong, and can apply early pressure.

    Indeed, look at Justicar Trueheart: even if she started in your hand, she'd be acceptable at best, even if your deck was built around her. Because of her cost.

    All in all, the OP's idea is kept in check by the mana cost of the activator. As long as that is properly balanced (and the alternate HP are not broken themselves) the concept will never be broken.

    That's why Genn and Baku had a deckbuilding restriction, while Justicar does not. And I guess there are still some niche players, who use Justicar over Baku, at least one DaneHS.

    In addition to that not even every class plays Genn and Baku, because its not worth it for the deckbuilding restriction and no real benefit from the hp. So I say that's why Genn and Baku are balanced.

    While this suggestion is way cheaper, so it can be played earlier, so it shouldn't too good (weaker than quests) and has a on curve body, not like Justicar, who is terribly stated.

    Yeah sure, but we are talking of mana cost and stats: these things can easily be balanced out with proper testing. 

    The overall mechanic is not potentially game-breaking.

    Oh and yes, i absolutely agree Genn and Baku are balanced, because of their restriction (which people fail to realize, and tend complain of repetitiveness of gameplay, as if it was an objective argument).

    But in this case, you don't need any, stats could always be nerfed if necessary, and the mechanic would stay viable nonetheless.

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  • griffior's Avatar 920 297 Posts Joined 05/31/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago
    Quote From LyraSilvertongue

    The question that should be asked I think is if these alternate hero powers would only favor control and midrange playstyles. Yes there was the big fear over aggro getting alternate hero powers due to Genn/Baku, but these new hero powers would only benefit one or two playstyles then I feel that it would warp the 'holy trinity' of aggro/midrange/control too much towards the slower decks.

    I believe they should be class specific as well. That way it can be controlled a bit more.

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 695 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago

    I'm glad some of you guys see the benefits of this kind of approach to a Hero Power changing card! I think this version of the effect is quite interesting, since you have to make a choice of when to play it, so your opponent can apply pressure on you that forces you to wait until later to play the Legendary. Also, the alternate Hero Powers would be the same powerlevel as the original ones, so this card would not give you more lategame power, it would just allow you to build a deck with different synergies. For example, a more control-style Hunter Hero Power could let them make a viable control deck instead of being held back by their Hero Power.

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  • Cleef2's Avatar HearthStationeer 340 200 Posts Joined 04/02/2019
    Posted 2 years, 11 months ago
    Quote From CursedParrot

    I'm glad some of you guys see the benefits of this kind of approach to a Hero Power changing card! I think this version of the effect is quite interesting, since you have to make a choice of when to play it, so your opponent can apply pressure on you that forces you to wait until later to play the Legendary. Also, the alternate Hero Powers would be the same powerlevel as the original ones, so this card would not give you more lategame power, it would just allow you to build a deck with different synergies. For example, a more control-style Hunter Hero Power could let them make a viable control deck instead of being held back by their Hero Power.

    Yeah there would not be another way to have hunter go the control route with just one card.

    * Deathstalker Rexxar walks in

    O crap

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