The Hero Power of Galakrond Priest is terrible

Descent of Dragons
  • AliRadicali's Avatar 460 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From SLima
    Quote From AliRadicali
    Quote From Meteorite12

    I’d say one of the bigger problems Priest has is the fact that so many of their healing cards can’t match up to what other classes have in terms of healing/armor. If you want to play a control deck you’d often have better survivability just by choosing another class.

    I’d argue that it’s Auchenai that’s causing a lot of Priest’s problems these days, since it means Priest’s healing cards are always being made with that in mind. If Auchenai didn’t exist, then Priest probably would’ve gotten Forbidden Healing and a bunch of other nice healing cards. Priest’s thing is supposed to be healing, but you almost never really see that

    Galakrond not helping the class just shows another case of Priest having problems rooted deeply into the class itself.

    I see where you're coming from WRT Auchenai being a constant design constraint, but regarding self-heals we've already seen numerous cards that can only heal friendly characters in priest specifically so they could print bigger heals that can't be used to kill an enemy with Auchenai. CF: Greater Healing Potion, Radiance & Divine Hymn. Priest can heal itself for a ton if it wants, but a lot of the newer healing cards don't play nice with the Soulpriest, which leads to the question why she's even in classic.

    To be clear, I can definitely see the argument for HOFing Auchenai, but it's a bit more complicated than that they can't print powerful healing effects.

    Unfortunately, as long as Auchenai exists in its current state, there's no way to prevent it from restricting the design of new targeted healing cards. Even a HoF doesn't do much because they can't ignore balance in wild. Priest is a real mess of a class. They need to rework its basic and classic set to prevent stuff like this from happening (and to stop the need for printing insane cards for the class every expansion).

    Auchenai Phantasm and Embrace the Shadow exist in wild for a more combo-able version of the auchenai-effect. I don't think the kind of play those cards reinforce (degenerate OTKs with Velen, mainly) is necessarily a concern for wild, but it's definitely something that affects the power of newly printed healing cards in priest, especially spells. Not having an evergreen Auchenai card would allow the devs to print stronger heals that could go face in wild, whereas the current schema basically forces the devs to print cards that are hard-written to not work with auchenai and/or be weak, forever.

     

    As for the commenter that said that HOTing Auchenai would leave the class even more dead in the water, yes, but I think most people arguing for HOF  want to see that happen in the context of a full overhaul of the evergreen priest cards, so the expectation is that priests would get something back in return for losing the shadow priest stuff.

    0
  • Yusuke's Avatar 270 175 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From SLima

    So i wanted to ask you people: what would you do to make Priest's Galakrond better? What hero power would suit it most without breaking the game? Would you change something about the invoke cards?

    I knew it since release of this card. And I hoped that it would be something like  "minions from Opponents deck" and not just "Priest minions". So it could be a meme/fun Steal Priest; this would be more enjoyable than what we have now.

    0
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 697 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    What if the Hero Power was "Add a random Priest minion that costs 3 or more to your hand. It costs 1 less". That way it would reduce a lot of the low-rolls and make it consistently give you something for the late-game. The cost floor could also be moved to something like 5 if that seems like it would work better.

    0
  • Nuagoo's Avatar 355 86 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    It's less about armo(u)r/healing but about direct face damage that priest can't compensate.

    0
  • Almaniarra's Avatar Devoted Outlander 880 1346 Posts Joined 03/21/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From dapperdog

    The problem is not with Galakrond's hero power, its just that priest's invoke cards aren't up to snuff against aggro and there's not many ways priest can heal a ton right now.

    Problem isn't that either, it is bad Classic set of Priest. What Invoke gives me is always Lightwell while rogue's get even better 1-cost cards and warlocks summons 2 demons and shamans got rush minions and warriors got +3 damage..

    1
  • Meteorite12's Avatar 670 696 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    At that point why does Auchenai even exist if they’re pretty much only ever gonna print healing that doesn’t work with it? Auchenai was okay for the game back when there weren’t many cards, but these days it’s just a liability.

    I feel like this next year it might just be better to rework all the class’s classic and basic sets, either by doing a rotating base set for each class, or changing how a lot of the class cards work, because the problem that the current base set is causing is only going to get worse. A lot of the time we’ll see the same classes having the same problems, because those are the problems that the base set forces on them. If they make it so that they don’t need to keep reprinting the same workarounds they always do then that’d give Wild a chance to get cards that aren’t just redundant

    We’ve seen them doing a lot of things differently this past year, adding a lot of stuff people have been asking for, so why not this?

    Who needs consistency when you could have fun?

    2
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 635 697 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 9 months ago

    Yeah, but the Auchenai problem also extends to the 2 Mana 3/2 from Rastakhan's Rumble and the 2 Mana Auchenai Spell from TGT. I do agree though that classic and basic need to be reworked. Even something as simple as buffing Holy Nova to cost 6 Mana and "Deal 3 Damage to all Enemies and restore 3 Health to all friendly characters" could solve the problem of having to give Priest good board clears every year. Mage has Flamestrike in classic, which allows them to not print any more Boardclears for them (aside from volcanic potion), whereas Priest gets around one every year

    0
  • DoubleSummon's Avatar Ancestral Recall 1580 2271 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago

    I just found out yesterday that you can't generate galakround invokers by any means..which is great since I don't really want to play around a 3rd or 4th dragon's pack or scion of ruin but in the priest case it makes the hero power just pure garbage.

    1
  • HolyWater's Avatar HearthStationeer 375 155 Posts Joined 03/15/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago

    maybe: "Add a random healing card to your hand."

     

    0
  • Avalon's Avatar Content Admin Salty Dog 1490 1952 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From HolyWater

    maybe: "Add a random healing card to your hand."

     

    "You can't lose the game if they can't kill you".

    Coming from a former Priest main (I'm refusing to touch the class since SoU), just healing is lame, unless you attach something cool to it (see Light of the Naaru for example).

    Healing by itself is quite useless, since you can't stack it up unlike Armor (unless you print a minion with an effect like "excess healing to your face counts like Armor", but I don't know) and, since right now you can't make proactive moves, you're just hoping that your opponent will end up his gas and concede.
    Which is fair, give that this is the goal of any Control deck, but man it is a really miserable way to achieve it.

    Spice Lord and self-proclaimed Meme Master.

    • You can follow me on Twitter - I am always active and you can tag me to highlight your (or someone else's) 12 wins Duels run or really anything Hearthstone-related!
    • Hearthstone Battletag: beppe946#2807 (EU)
    3
  • DoubleSummon's Avatar Ancestral Recall 1580 2271 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago

    I don't think it's even up for debate, bad cards/failed archtypes rarely get any attention/buffs I doubt they will buff it, so far buffs have been really rare.. we might get an invoke card in the adventure or even another double invoke abuser, but I think the invoke effect is so underwhelming and sometimes even a liability. So I think nothing can save the priest galakround.. and it's doomed to fail.. unless you get such a HUGE tempo swing from another abuser like Fate Weaver with a lot more impact than any other double invoke card, not neccessarly a tempo impact can be a a big value one!

    In short the only hope for this archtype is the 35 card mini expansion and the impact need to be a specific support but with a HUGE impact.. and I hope not.. cause we have shaman,warrior,rogue and warlock who do really well with galakround.

    1
  • Shwarzinator's Avatar Island 305 182 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago

    There are some workable options:

    1. Add a random Priest spell to your hand

    2. Add a random Priest card to your hand

    2. Discover a Priest minion (only choose from two)

    3. Add a random 3+ mana Priest minion to your hand

    4. Add a random Priest minion to your hand. Reduce its cost by 1.

    5. Add a random card from your opponent's deck to your hand (maybe not great but still better and supports Thief Priest)

    6. Add a random Priest deathrattle minion to your hand

    7. Add a random deathrattle minion to your hand

    3
  • Bystekhilcar's Avatar 270 335 Posts Joined 09/02/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago

    Been shadowing the discussion for a while, and the conclusion I've drawn is that there's no point to changing the Galakrond Invoke/HP. You'd just be poking at a symptom.

    The underlying disease, to continue the metaphor, is the lack of direction and theme underlying the Priest class, which has been widely acknowledged by both community and developers. Shadow is hard to really sell in card form - is it targeted removal, card theft, mind control, direct damage? - and healing simply doesn't work as a unifying class identity. Hypothetically healing could work, if it were reworked to be more effective on minions and (more importantly) Inner Fire were HoF'd so as to remove potential abuse cases (so as to promote the board-centric conservative gameplan which looked to be the original design philosophy) but it'd be awkward and anachronistic in today's rush-heavy, board-interactive Hearthstone.

    Thus, the problem. With no idea where to take the class, how can you pick an effective hero power? If the class's cards are schizophrenic, how can any hero power support them properly without simply ignoring most of them? In the end, the solution chosen was a shrug and hand-wave - the reason the current HP is underwhelming is that it doesn't actually aim to synergise with anything. It plays the middle ground - if your cards are schizophrenic, generate a lot of them and sooner or later you'll get some cards that work together, right?

    The further problem is that this issue goes all the way to the root of the class. It's not something you can actually fix with expansion cards - even if you did manage to create a new class identity (which seems unlikely) it's still a temporary fix until the cards rotate. I don't particularly like the idea, but I'm forced to agree with others on this board and conclude that the only thing that will really fix Priest is a complete redesign from the ground up.

    I see you when you're sleeping; I'm gone before you wake

    I'm not as good as turn 4 Barnes; But I'm at least a Twilight Drake

    1
  • Yusuke's Avatar 270 175 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago
    Quote From Shwarzinator

    There are some workable options:

    1. Add a random Priest spell to your hand

    2. Add a random Priest card to your hand

    2. Discover a Priest minion (only choose from two)

    3. Add a random 3+ mana Priest minion to your hand

    4. Add a random Priest minion to your hand. Reduce its cost by 1.

    5. Add a random card from your opponent's deck to your hand (maybe not great but still better and supports Thief Priest)

    6. Add a random Priest deathrattle minion to your hand

    7. Add a random deathrattle minion to your hand

    Or just "Add a minion from your opponents deck to your hand" for Steal Priest to be viable.

    0
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 865 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 2 years, 8 months ago

    Simple as it is, the Hero Power of Galakrond, the Unspeakable is meant as a raw value generator for lategame, not as a Control tool. It's a bias to assume that anything Priest must be Control-oriented.

    And Hagatha the Witch was viable at some point (including Standard Even Shaman), so I don't see why Priest Galakrond shoulnd't be.

    Obviously, with Galakrond package playing a sort of greedy role, you want to optimize the rest of the deck around something else, be it Midrange, Control (Highlander?) or even Combo, which is far from impossible tbh.

    Priest Galakrond Invoke is obviously not meant as a main wincondition, or a deck backbone, as it is for Shaman, Warrior and Warlock. Instead, similarly to Rogue, it plays the role of additional steam. A secondary package, if you like, where the real perks are embodied by Fate Weaver, Kronx Dragonhoof, and possibly Princess Talanji. But these perks don't win you the games on their own, not often at least, only against slower decks. The rest of the deck wins against Aggro, if you correctly build it.

    Long story short, if you build and REFINE a Control/Highlander Priest deck where you slap in the Galakrond package, you should get a viable meta deck. Maybe not the best one out there, but fair enough.

    If you don't like it, you can simply play some different Priest decks without Galakrond.

    1
  • Leave a Comment

    You must be signed in to leave a comment. Sign in here.