Does anyone else feel like rush has ruined the game?

  • Zwane's Avatar Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    It's still on my agenda to create a deck where all minions have rush...or other battlecry that damages other minions.

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  • AngryShuckie's Avatar 1695 1678 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From Mercynary9

    To my belief right now, I feel they are a big part of contribution to the powercreep, as they might be important enough to stay on the same level with other  high value cards (like hero cards and others).

    A 2 mana 3/4 with even a Rush is acceptable nowadays, and I haven't seen anybody (and myself) whine about it. Some cards also basically holding a package of many cards in it, like hero cards, a card attached with discovery mechanic, and more. Currently with the new cards we have, they now got a lot of value as almost twice as the vanilla and old cards. Not all of rush minions are that, but very close. 

    So now I don't really know what Blizzard are going to do when rush mechanic becomes part of the game now, as the powercreeps demands more strong overall cards, with having high stat points or a value generators, that's my concern.

    I do heard they want to avoid high powercreeps (stated when they done some recent nerfs this year, if I remember correctly), but I doubt they're going to avoid that.

    The only 2 mana 3/4 rush I can think of is Underbelly Fence, which has a condition that is rarely met on turn 2 and requires a low tempo card to have been played before it. If it was an unconditional 3/4 with rush people would not be OK with it.

    I'm not saying rush minions haven't brought with them some level of power creep (all types of cards have when Blizz is trying to push an archetype), but it is not so great as your comment implies.

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  • AliRadicali's Avatar 460 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    I agree that in the present meta, rush (and other removal tools) are a bit too dominant. Now it's generally true that the tail-end of the year favours control and combo(because the more cards there are in standard, the easier it is to craft a fine-tuned control deck that can deal with various threats) and it's also true that despite this, we're in a pretty aggro/face-heavy meta, but the successful aggro decks, mainly facehunter and rogue, more or less ignore the board by mid-game and have a ton of burst from hand. It feels like decks that try to win early via the board are just dead in the water ATM, which is definitely a problem, because it's that much less fun to lose against a face deck that can't be controlled via the board.

     

    One can only hope that the standard rotation will deal with some of the problem cards and that subsequent expansions will be a bit less Rush-heavy. I also wouldn't mind a further nerf to Faceless Corruptor, because that card is still busted AF and completely negates any sort of early tempo advantage an aggro deck might want to build. I wouldn't mind seeing the health of that minion go down to 3 or 2 so that it doesn't value-trade as conveniently. 5 mana: deal 4 damage to 2 minions is still decent tempo even if the card doesn't leave behind two bodies. Right now even if you keep the board clear 6 mana: play a lackey and a faceless is still far too backbreaking for (board-centric) aggro to deal with.

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  • YJHS2000's Avatar Uther 300 119 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    Rush essentially gave every class removal, and gave classes that had real removal (via spells or battelcries) even more. Too much removal means not a lot of board presence and minion battling, which is what HS used to be about. It seems HS tried to counter this by ramping up token mechanics to flood the board, so now games are just crazy swingy and overly match-up dependent. I do miss the days when it was acceptable---even worth---including vanillas in the deck.

    Communism is just a red herring

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  • Starscream's Avatar 175 99 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    Quest Hunter is toxic now because you can play a rush minion EVERY turn. It's not even hard to activate the quest. I find it really demoralizing to face this deck in particular.

    The entire rush mechanic is simply overdone.  

    80% of my ladder experience is Hunters (rush rush rush) or Rogues (lackey lackey lackey.)  I'm really tired of it.

    -1
  • RandomGuy's Avatar 430 614 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    It's funny to see people in this thread complain that Rush has removed minion trading from the game.

    I'll just double down on things Flux and others have said - the problem with Rush (if there's a problem at all, and I don't necessarily think there is one) is the number of cards with Rush. The mechanic is fine.

    But this is what happens at this stage in rotations. We have the maximum amount of cards in the card pool. Indeed, due to Galakrond's Awakening, this is the largest cardpool we've had since rotations began.

    The problem (if there is one) will correct itself.

    -1
  • Zwane's Avatar Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    A perfect answer to rush is deathrattle/reborn. Or rush them back (but bigger).

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  • Scarth's Avatar 120 6 Posts Joined 07/26/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From Zwane

    A perfect answer to rush is deathrattle/reborn. Or rush them back (but bigger).

    That's what I said in the OP about gameplay being just turns of bashing creatures together until someone doesn't have an answer. The 'pre-hit' thing you would see people doing prior to rush existing, where you would damage an enemy minion to set up to kill it next turn, feels like a waste now if I can just play a highly statted rush minion and kill it instead and hit the opposing player with my minion on board - if it managed to survive.

    Quote From RandomGuy

    It's funny to see people in this thread complain that Rush has removed minion trading from the game.

    I'll just double down on things Flux and others have said - the problem with Rush (if there's a problem at all, and I don't necessarily think there is one) is the number of cards with Rush. The mechanic is fine.

    But this is what happens at this stage in rotations. We have the maximum amount of cards in the card pool. Indeed, due to Galakrond's Awakening, this is the largest cardpool we've had since rotations began.

    The problem (if there is one) will correct itself.

    What if they print a large amount of rush minions in the upcoming expansion? Unseal the Vault is going to be around for another while and they're going to need to support that. Oasis Surger and Faceless Corruptor, some of the stronger rush cards, will also be around for just as long.

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  • Zwane's Avatar Wizard 320 423 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    I think Oasis Surger is not a problem since it is not neutral. But the abundance of strong neutral minions (some even have evasive and divine shield) with rush can lead to games where the board is empty most of the time (say from turn 2-6) at the start of the turn. Then the big minions start to come in which can not be removed by rush and then the real game starts. I think this is also the reason we see a lot of token decks now, since your normal statted on-curve minion will just be removed by a rush minion. So you try to go wide, and then the Faceless Corruptor comes in handy.

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  • Zelgadis's Avatar Wizard 950 720 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    I like rush as a mechanic, but they went a bit overboard with it. It's good to have catch-up mechanisms, so a game isn't over if your opponent has a quicker start. But if every turn is a swing turn, it feels like you're not building towards anything.

    I wouldn't call the game ruined though: the meta is usually worst just before rotation and compared to previous years I think the current state is actually pretty good.

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  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar 360 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago

    People wanted an overly board centric min-maxing minion trading Hearthstone (or they thought they wanted it) so here we are. Next time control players should be careful what they wish for.

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  • Xarkkal's Avatar Servant of Illidan 890 1321 Posts Joined 03/29/2019
    Posted 2 years, 7 months ago
    Quote From Zwane

    It's still on my agenda to create a deck where all minions have rush...or other battlecry that damages other minions.

    Something like this?

    In building this deck, I realized just how many bad rush minions there are. I honestly think the biggest issue with Rush right now is Faceless Corruptor

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  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 827 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    Bot revived this dead thread and it's amazing how my opinion on the topic hasn't changed in 10 months.

    Living like that.

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