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Stuck at Diamond 5. Like, really stuck.

Ashes of Outland
  • drfelip's Avatar Dragon Scholar 270 232 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    So I finally decided to try to reach Legend for the first time, which seemed doable with the new ladder system. So I crafted Dragon Hunter, which was cheap and, according to Vicious Syndicate, looked quite strong and with fast games, and climbed to Diamond 10 pretty easily. Then I switched to Galakrond Secret Rogue, because I don't like Hunter a lot, and I slowly climbed up to Diamond 6. I progressed quite slowly, so I switched to Dragon Hunter again. But after reaching Diamond 4, my winrate has dropped dramatically, and I've been floating between Diamond 5 and 4 for many days. I even crafted Dragonbane to try to improve my winrate, but to no avail. I thought it was just bad luck (it sometimes happens), but after 3 days of bad luck I think it has to be something else. I don't think the nerf to Scavenger's Ingenuity has been that bad for the deck, maybe it's just that I'm not good enough. Whatever. 

    I'll probably try again with Galakrond Secret Rogue, but I'm a bit discouraged, I don't have a lot of experience with that deck and I missplay too often; and with only 5 days to go, I don't think it's a good idea to switch to a completely different deck. Any advice? 

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    1
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 625 1279 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    In my only case of Legend climb attempt (few minutes ago), it was in Wild, which is possibly easier.

    But I made it by taking a deck that proved strong to me (Discolock) and tuned it against the meta I was expecting and actually encountering: in Wild it was full of board&weapon Aggro, so I went for Freeze package (3 cards, not just 1), and it worked really well.

    So maybe trying to tech against the meta may help. I don't know how to counter Standard higher meta, or if it is possible at all, but the principle should be of some help.

    PS: and yes, as og0 suggested, you need the right state of mind: get rid of expectations, you already reached a great result. Anything that comes now from D4 and on should be taken as a gift. Just play at your best and try to laugh at your bad luck when it happens. Legend rank is a side effect.

    1
  • og0's Avatar HearthStationeer 610 661 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Firstly, D4 is already great and higher than most of the playerbase.

    Even if Legend doesn't happen Star bonus for next season is going to be good.

    Probably playing when tilted is one of the worst things you can do.  Best to take a break, walk, listen to music for a bit when that happens :)  

    Wherever you finish, if you can get to D4, have the right attitude and enough play time, Legend is inevitable whether this season or another.

    Good luck!!!

    All generalizations are false.

    5
  • Aenarion's Avatar Explorer of Outland 175 84 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Hey, I have played a lot of dragon Hunter the last two months and I have to say it's a powerful deck. That being said, a deck can be good but the way you play it is the most important factor. Dragonbane is one of the most powerful cards, so kudos for crafting it, but you gotta know when to play it. In fact, every card in the deck should have different uses considering your current matchup, and you have to learn that one mulligan ain't good enough for everything. You have to learn what works best against every other deck, and have to take risks; don't keep a well-rounded card, sometimes you don't even keep good cards in the mulligan 'cause you need the best cards. Sure, nerf to Ingenuity happened, and although I think it wasn't called for, the deck still is great, especially since DH also got hit. I always run against a lot of DH in the meta, and this deck has several ways to beat, but you gotta find out those ways yourself since many plays you can learn, but others you have to judge yourself. For example, I'm a main control deck player (what's that nowadays, right?), so I mostly want to kill everything, but with dragon Hunter you have to know when to take risks, like take a bit of damage to then swing the board with Explosive and then just go face and race it. 

    You may be having trouble against some decks, sure Priest and Rogues are annoying but you can beat them, if you learn what are your outs and play to your strength, that means sometimes to put yourself in the position that you win if you draw that one card, 'cause you will probably lose if you don't draw it. You can even beat Warrior, for sure. 

    I certainly recommend you play with the deck you feel most comfortable but focus on getting good with the deck, not on winning. And one more thing: I realized that cutting one boar for Zixor wins a lot of matchups, especially against DH, if you have the dust for it.

    Bring back old Warrior Control.

    4
  • Savron's Avatar Malfurion 95 33 Posts Joined 06/10/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    I can also say that reaching Legend in Wild is easier... and definitely more fun. Often in Standard I hate that the matches tend to be polarised - you know the outcome of a game from the start and that could extra tilt you, thus making you not play like you believe you'll win. While there are some similarities in Wild, for me personally, it's not the same. 

    For Standard I believe that you should definitely use the best deck that you can afford. Then tech it. This is the key for me - be aware of the meta. You can check also the decklist here:

    http://metastats.net/decksbyrank/10/

    My best advice for you is to craft the deck that you like the most and just be happy to play it. As another fellow said - the Legend rank will become the side effect. Good luck!

    0
  • Marega's Avatar 335 510 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From RavenSunHS

    In my only case of Legend climb attempt (few minutes ago), it was in Wild, which is possibly easier.

    But I made it by taking a deck that proved strong to me (Discolock) and tuned it against the meta I was expecting and actually encountering: in Wild it was full of board&weapon Aggro, so I went for Freeze package (3 cards, not just 1), and it worked really well.

    So maybe trying to tech against the meta may help. I don't know how to counter Standard higher meta, or if it is possible at all, but the principle should be of some help.

    PS: and yes, as og0 suggested, you need the right state of mind: get rid of expectations, you already reached a great result. Anything that comes now from D4 and on should be taken as a gift. Just play at your best and try to laugh at your bad luck when it happens. Legend rank is a side effect.

    Trying to counter the meta you find? Admirable, but mistaken.

    Each time i do that, like either changing decks or tech some cards in like silence or oozes, those opponents are gone and only appear like 2 times out of 20 when before it was like 8 or more times.

    I hear ppl saying this ALL THE TIME, and it really triggers me cause it just feels like they are playing a different game than me. Like for real give me your account so that i can play against the decks that im ready to face.

    Like all those streamers and their youtube videos like "pick this deck and farm the X deck" and im like "bro each time i do that those decks become a rarity to face". Like for real whats the secret behind tech or deck countering and actually facing them? cause i dont know what it is.

    0
  • OmarComing's Avatar 415 299 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    I've found Quest Warlock to be strong lately. I really feel like I have a chance in every matchup. Plus, the highroll potential is massive. If you get a zero cost Malygos, then the game is pretty much in the bag.

    And most importantly, it's a super fun deck!  

    I made the Legend climb with Secret Rogue before the Shadowjeweler Hanar nerf, but I've been steadily climbing with Quest Lock since then.  

    0
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 530 645 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Problem is that both your decks (dragon hunter and galakrond rogue) got hit quite hard by the nerfs. The latter especially. For rogue you're probably better off switching the secret package for the stealth package like most players have been doing (it's considerably cheaper too). As for hunter, if you can afford to go highlander it's far more effective than the dragon variant and extremely versatile.

     

    0
  • DelkoHS's Avatar Child of Galakrond 365 464 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    You can also use HSReplay to record your games and watch replays to notice errors in your plays.

     

    0
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 625 1279 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Marega
    Quote From RavenSunHS

    In my only case of Legend climb attempt (few minutes ago), it was in Wild, which is possibly easier.

    But I made it by taking a deck that proved strong to me (Discolock) and tuned it against the meta I was expecting and actually encountering: in Wild it was full of board&weapon Aggro, so I went for Freeze package (3 cards, not just 1), and it worked really well.

    So maybe trying to tech against the meta may help. I don't know how to counter Standard higher meta, or if it is possible at all, but the principle should be of some help.

    PS: and yes, as og0 suggested, you need the right state of mind: get rid of expectations, you already reached a great result. Anything that comes now from D4 and on should be taken as a gift. Just play at your best and try to laugh at your bad luck when it happens. Legend rank is a side effect.

    Trying to counter the meta you find? Admirable, but mistaken.

    Each time i do that, like either changing decks or tech some cards in like silence or oozes, those opponents are gone and only appear like 2 times out of 20 when before it was like 8 or more times.

    I hear ppl saying this ALL THE TIME, and it really triggers me cause it just feels like they are playing a different game than me. Like for real give me your account so that i can play against the decks that im ready to face.

    Like all those streamers and their youtube videos like "pick this deck and farm the X deck" and im like "bro each time i do that those decks become a rarity to face". Like for real whats the secret behind tech or deck countering and actually facing them? cause i dont know what it is.

    I adjusted according to meta reports AND my own experience. 

    I did NOT adjust according to the previous 2-3 opponents, but according to stats.

    Also, I was able to apply the correct techs, that is something that is still good against most other matchups. Not just hard counters to some cards. And I did it in a deck I was already confident about.

    Finally, adjusting against local ranks is not a foolproof activity that grants you wins. It just improves your chances to win, and only if you can do it optimally (ie the meta is quite specific as to have counters against a variety of decks, as it was in my case).

    0
  • Marega's Avatar 335 510 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From RavenSunHS
    Quote From Marega
    Quote From RavenSunHS

    In my only case of Legend climb attempt (few minutes ago), it was in Wild, which is possibly easier.

    But I made it by taking a deck that proved strong to me (Discolock) and tuned it against the meta I was expecting and actually encountering: in Wild it was full of board&weapon Aggro, so I went for Freeze package (3 cards, not just 1), and it worked really well.

    So maybe trying to tech against the meta may help. I don't know how to counter Standard higher meta, or if it is possible at all, but the principle should be of some help.

    PS: and yes, as og0 suggested, you need the right state of mind: get rid of expectations, you already reached a great result. Anything that comes now from D4 and on should be taken as a gift. Just play at your best and try to laugh at your bad luck when it happens. Legend rank is a side effect.

    Trying to counter the meta you find? Admirable, but mistaken.

    Each time i do that, like either changing decks or tech some cards in like silence or oozes, those opponents are gone and only appear like 2 times out of 20 when before it was like 8 or more times.

    I hear ppl saying this ALL THE TIME, and it really triggers me cause it just feels like they are playing a different game than me. Like for real give me your account so that i can play against the decks that im ready to face.

    Like all those streamers and their youtube videos like "pick this deck and farm the X deck" and im like "bro each time i do that those decks become a rarity to face". Like for real whats the secret behind tech or deck countering and actually facing them? cause i dont know what it is.

    I adjusted according to meta reports AND my own experience. 

    I did NOT adjust according to the previous 2-3 opponents, but according to stats.

    Also, I was able to apply the correct techs, that is something that is still good against most other matchups. Not just hard counters to some cards. And I did it in a deck I was already confident about.

    Finally, adjusting against local ranks is not a foolproof activity that grants you wins. It just improves your chances to win, and only if you can do it optimally (ie the meta is quite specific as to have counters against a variety of decks, as it was in my case).

    dont get me wrong i understand what you are saying, but just to give u an example, is that after playing for a week on 2 different accounts i came to the conclusion that running a deck that isnt bad against some of the matchups and fully counters the most faced deck which for me it was secret mage (wild) i decided to pick cubelock and behold I played a little bit more than 20 matches that night and faced only 2 secret mages. the next day i gave up on it and went to another deck and faced 6 secret mages in 16 games. fun huh? i mean i won 4 out of 6 cause the deck also worked but it wasnt tailored to win it.

    can give the other example of using ooze which i dont, but considering pirate warrior cubelock and secret mage all use the weapon (sure secret mage can win without aluneth) i wonder what opponents will i start facing if i tech in ooze. cause oh boy i remember the good old days of standard cubelock, and everyone using double ooze and sure enough yours truly did so only to face 5% of cubelocks when before it was 20%. like i said i really wish i could use other ppls account cause trying to counter the meta i face and not the last 3 matches, results in said meta disappearing leaving me with a subpar deck or an irrelevant tech in my deck for the next opponents.

    The feeling of spending a whole night thinking it was just a bad streak of luck and the meta ive been facing will now appear but they never do is nothing short of gut wrenching.

    0
  • Stonehelm's Avatar Partygoer 100 18 Posts Joined 01/21/2020
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    I don't have any great advice for the OP but I just wanted to say good luck in your quest for first time legend. It is nice that it's only 15 stars from Diamond 5 to legend compared to the old 25 from 5 to legend. Not that I've gotten there yet myself either.

    I've been running Dragon Hunter this month too for much of the climb and I've made it up to Diamond 3 before falling back a bit. It's fun when it works and not too frustrating when it fails as long as I don't run into five priests in a row.

    3
  • kusogoi's Avatar 10 1 Posts Joined 05/26/2020
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Reached D5 - 2 weeks ago, and had arranged a gauntlet of Decks, around 4 different to tackle the climb to legend. After every loss decisive loss i would change the deck and try another one. Got multiple times to D1 with 3 stars but then losing the matchup without any chance. These plays were not in vain though, knowing how the different decks playout und what is essential in which matchups helped understanding making decions with the deck that finaly brought me to legend, Highlander Mage. It is a Fun deck to play and even the worst matchup, Hunter can swing from dire to win in an instant. The comeback mechanic of Puzzlebox / Amazing Reno makes it possible. The legend try from D5 to Legend took 75 games with a record  46-29. Most losses were against DH and Hunter, post nerf losses were against hunter only. In the End stick to your preferences, play mindless aggro, thoughtfull control or midrange which can be both depending on your start. I have chosen mage because of the comeback potential turn 6 and later which makes it more likely to play out until the end as with some other decks you can concede if you lose board and lifetotals of opponent are to high.

    0
  • h0lysatan's Avatar Heartbreaker 350 163 Posts Joined 12/03/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From drfelip

    and I've been floating between Diamond 5 and 4 for many days.

    you're not alone friend. Been rotating back and forth from D2 to D5. Been running every kind of deck, from aggro and control.

    From Rogue before nerfs, and Priest after nerfs. Even Enrage Warrior is bad enough to bring me back to D5. It's not a matter of winrate, but a state of mind. I even gave up if I made any slight error in my deck because of frustration. (I probably can still win it). 

    The only thing I learn is don't push your luck. If you win or lose 3 times, just stop playing.

    Knowledge is Power

    0
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 550 918 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Dragon hunter is very strong, but not overwhelmingly so, and there's so many tech decisions that its not possible to just copy a hsreplay dragon hunter deck and expect to go well with it.

    For example, the meta around diamond currently doesnt feature lots of dhunters, so I removed Explosive Trap for Freezing Trap and Snake Trap.

    Since there's lots of highlander hunters and other dragon hunters, I replace the boar tech with Scalerider. I might change this to 1x Burrowing Scorpid, as rng keeps screwing me.

    For some reason I keep facing murloc paladins, so I tech in Unleash the Hounds. Without this its nearly always an auto lost for hunter.

    Honestly, there's little need for Dragonbane. Kill Command more of less does the same thing anyway in most matches. The only thing this can do is to maybe snowball a priest or mage matchup, which you're favored to win anyway.

    Its always best to simply climb with a deck you're comfortable with since you are more likely to make better decisions and losing doesnt tilt as much.

    0
  • drfelip's Avatar Dragon Scholar 270 232 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Thanks a lot for your comments!

    I've been watching some of my replays, some games were probably unwinnable, but in others I could spot some misplays. I think I became a bit overconfident with the deck (as I was climbing so easily) and I got used to play too fast. So that is something I could improve. I also agree I should have stopped playing when I was on a losing streak, but I'm stubborn sometimes...

    Maybe switching the secrets is a good idea, since Friday I encountered 17% DH, 17% Mage, 22% Rogue (mostly secrets, some stealth), 17% Priest, other classes in small percentages. Explosive clearly does nothing against Mage and Priest.

    I agree that Highlander Hunter is more powerful, but man, that shit is expensive! Currently I don't have the dust to craft it.

    Thanks for the link to Metastats.net, I didn't know that site and I like that you can segment by rank (gold and below, platinum and above); however, it's unclear where they get the stats from... By the way, according to Metastats winrate is not that different between Galakrond Rogue and Galakrond Secret Rogue.

    I'd probably stick with Dragon Hunter, maybe switching some secrets; matches playing Rogue take too long for the time I can spend playing Hearthstone this week. Time has always been a problem for me to climb to Legend!

    I'll keep you updated!

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    0
  • eazy's Avatar Explorer of Dragons 115 50 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago

    Hi, 

    I have one advice that I had not found in the comments yet - try to go to legend in one "sitting". In my experience, both on the old and new system, once you catch a win streak you should not give up playing. Maybe it is the day when RNG is in your favor, or maybe the micro-meta is just favorable to your deck or your style (or, like myself, you believe that MM is not that random and it just gives you those good days (d5-legend) and bad  days (d1-d5) ) 

    Anyways, even you do not believe in conspiracy theories, this is how hitting legend has worked for me, did not matter how many times I was "almost there", there came losing streaks and legend was earned from the floor rank in one sittings. 

    Also, I am aware that others said it, but don't give up on your legend quest. If you have made it that far, you are on your way to legend, sooner or later. In the new system, you even still play with the same opponents, as it is based on MMR. 

    Cheers and good luck! 

    1
  • drfelip's Avatar Dragon Scholar 270 232 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From eazy

    Hi, 

    I have one advice that I had not found in the comments yet - try to go to legend in one "sitting".

    Thanks! That sounds good, but I'm afraid I can't afford long play sessions anymore, as I did when I was younger! I have too much to do!  I can normally play only for 1-1.5 h, maybe 2 h if star align. I know, that sucks, but that's life...

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    0
  • drfelip's Avatar Dragon Scholar 270 232 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From dapperdog

    For example, the meta around diamond currently doesnt feature lots of dhunters, so I removed Explosive Trap for Freezing Trap and Snake Trap.

    Since there's lots of highlander hunters and other dragon hunters, I replace the boar tech with Scalerider. I might change this to 1x Burrowing Scorpid, as rng keeps screwing me.

    Freezing Trap is definitely great, but I'm not sold on Snake Trap. Pack Tactics sounds like a better option to me, because most minions have special abilities (evasive, poisonous, hero power synergy...). Have you tested it?

    The pleasure is mine.

    My last standard decks: nothing special right now.

    2
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 530 645 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From dapperdog

    Honestly, there's little need for Dragonbane. Kill Command more of less does the same thing anyway in most matches. The only thing this can do is to maybe snowball a priest or mage matchup, which you're favored to win anyway.

    This isn't true at all and, honestly, a very poor and shallow comparison.

    Kill Command is a single damage output of 3 or 5 damage (depending on your board state) to one target. For one mana more Dragonbane is a 3/5 worth of stats which, if not cleared quickly, puts you at a massive advantage, if not wins you the game outright. It will either win you the board (harder), deal the same amount of face damage as a single Kill Command does, unconditionally, every turn, or forces removal and/or minion trades from your opponent.

    There's a reason every hunter archetype runs the card, because it's one of the class' best performers. 

    OP most definitely made the right decision by crafting it. Even more so now that the beast package got nerfed and might even be replaced entirely in some archetypes.

    1
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