Nerf ideas for Rez Priest.

  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 818 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    Was thinking of a good way to nerf rez priest that would still make the deck playable and it came to me. Make the rez mechanic the same as in Skyrim. 

     

     

    If you don't know in skyrim you have spells to resurrect things,just like in hearthstone, those things come to life and do your bidding even though they're dead. But after they die a second time, after being reanimated they turn to ash, and you can't resurrect them again. This is the change to rez priest that i think would be the best for both sides. Priest can still be bullshit resurrecting the lich king or ragnaros, but not several times throughout the game, they would have to play more minions which would dilute their pool so they wouldn't automatically get the lich king or ragnaros, or statue every time. This would make the deck less consistent, and make it easier to win against.

     

    What do you think?

    Living like that.

    3
  • Paragon's Avatar Divine Rager 525 184 Posts Joined 06/07/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    I like it.

    Let me light the way.

    1
  • Marega's Avatar 575 847 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    I think the real question about big priest is why do people still play it?  It's clearly bad specially in this meta but for some reason some ppl just like to giggle like little idiots when they play a 2 mana card rez an 8+drop.

    1
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Refreshment Vendor 865 1487 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    The real issue with Ress Priest has always been early cheating of huge amounts of mana.

    Resurrecting itself is kinda ok.

    1
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 818 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From Marega

    I think the real question about big priest is why do people still play it?  It's clearly bad specially in this meta but for some reason some ppl just like to giggle like little idiots when they play a 2 mana card rez an 8+drop.

    People like playing decks that are on autopilot, shudderwock shaman, rez priest, aviana kun combo druid, Zul'jin hunter. Makes them have to make as little decision making as possible

    Living like that.

    -1
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 930 776 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    The deck's tier 4 in both formats, if even that.

    I'm all for completely getting rid of the archetype if it ever does resurface but for now... why kick a horse when it's already down?

    0
  • Khaostheory1980's Avatar Enjoys Cake 355 218 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    People are having fun wrong!!!!!!

     

    OP what decks do you like to play?

    -3
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar Skeleton 1680 3574 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    that analogy only works if you play Skyrim like a scrub. Real men abuse the Ritual Stone like degenerates (which, ironically, is a far better analogy to what Priest actually does)

     

    Also I'm pretty sure that makes the deck unplayable since you can't possibly get enough minions in the pool to consistently rez...effectively meaning you'd have to buff every single rez spell to make up for it.

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    0
  • economicaooc's Avatar 460 464 Posts Joined 03/04/2020
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    Res priest is not a good deck right now, so a nerf would be completely uncalled for.

    Why do people hate this deck so much? It's slow, clunky and does nothing but summon proactive threats.

    If they print more ways for priests to accelerate out the minions, rather than just replaying cards they have already played, then the deck would probably occupy the same niche as big shaman, but with better lategame. That could be a problem, but it just isn't right now, and I can't imagine them ever printing that kind of card at a pushed cost.

    This post is discussing the wild format.

    0
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 818 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    Also I'm pretty sure that makes the deck unplayable since you can't possibly get enough minions in the pool to consistently rez...effectively meaning you'd have to buff every single rez spell to make up for it.

    How would it make it unplayable? It would just mean you have to deal with the same minion at most twice....cheating out minions with shadow essence and barnes are still the same, resurrect and eternal servitude would still be the same if not more consistent. Not to mention it wouldn't even matter because priest still has a billion ways to summon copies of things they have on their board already to combat this graveyard downside: grave rune, unsleeping soul(fringe), psyche split, vivid nightmare, n'zoth(who would not work this way obviously), seance, shadowy figure, kaahrj, mirage caller etc... Yes this would stop priest from reviving the same ragnaros and infiltrator, over and over and over and over, but it will not stop the deck at all, so priest has to play more bombs to rez so what? It's a wild deck....the amount of bombs that rez priest can pull from shadow essence is almost too many to list. It just means whenever the play shadow essence on turn 5 or six they won't know exactly what the card is where now as it is, if you're getting SMORCed down as a rez priest you can usually shadow essence into an obsidian stature pretty reliably every single time.

    Living like that.

    0
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 818 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    that analogy only works if you play Skyrim like a scrub. Real men abuse the Ritual Stone like degenerates (which, ironically, is a far better analogy to what Priest actually does)

    And also only masochists play skyrim with spells, at least unmodded, because the useful spells don't work against high level enemies and the damage spells deal no damage from the start, and continue to do the same amount of zero damage no matter what your level is, but it's fine because they cost less mana right? lmao.

    Living like that.

    0
  • Synesthesy's Avatar 235 142 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    I didn't play the game for some months for the first time after I started the game, I missed the last 2 expansions and everything between, I just logged back today and apparently nothing has changed, people is still hating the Big Priests :P

    0
  • Marega's Avatar 575 847 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From Synesthesy

    I didn't play the game for some months for the first time after I started the game, I missed the last 2 expansions and everything between, I just logged back today and apparently nothing has changed, people is still hating the Big Priests :P

    and rightfully so. keep in mind that big priest is so low tier that some meta reports dont even include it. the fact that the deck is useless doesnt stop dummies from playing it and ppl to hate it like decent human beings

    0
  • Marega's Avatar 575 847 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    Also I'm pretty sure that makes the deck unplayable since you can't possibly get enough minions in the pool to consistently rez...effectively meaning you'd have to buff every single rez spell to make up for it.

    How would it make it unplayable? It would just mean you have to deal with the same minion at most twice....cheating out minions with shadow essence and barnes are still the same, resurrect and eternal servitude would still be the same if not more consistent. Not to mention it wouldn't even matter because priest still has a billion ways to summon copies of things they have on their board already to combat this graveyard downside: grave rune, unsleeping soul(fringe), psyche split, vivid nightmare, n'zoth(who would not work this way obviously), seance, shadowy figure, kaahrj, mirage caller etc... Yes this would stop priest from reviving the same ragnaros and infiltrator, over and over and over and over, but it will not stop the deck at all, so priest has to play more bombs to rez so what? It's a wild deck....the amount of bombs that rez priest can pull from shadow essence is almost too many to list. It just means whenever the play shadow essence on turn 5 or six they won't know exactly what the card is where now as it is, if you're getting SMORCed down as a rez priest you can usually shadow essence into an obsidian stature pretty reliably every single time.

    it would make it unplayable. im all for the death of rez priest, but creating a graveyard kills rez priest. have you played games with graveyards? like MtG or even Mythgard? once a card is rezed from the graveyard its on the board. u cant rez it twice in the same turn. the card exists in the graveyard then its pulled into the board. so shadow essence on 6 then it dies then u cant rez it twice the following turn. its the death of the deck as aggro would just laugh at such weak plays. the swing turns of getting 2 lich kings or 2 statues on the following turn would be gone. i am all for it but it kills the deck.

    1
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 818 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From Marega
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    Also I'm pretty sure that makes the deck unplayable since you can't possibly get enough minions in the pool to consistently rez...effectively meaning you'd have to buff every single rez spell to make up for it.

    How would it make it unplayable? It would just mean you have to deal with the same minion at most twice....cheating out minions with shadow essence and barnes are still the same, resurrect and eternal servitude would still be the same if not more consistent. Not to mention it wouldn't even matter because priest still has a billion ways to summon copies of things they have on their board already to combat this graveyard downside: grave rune, unsleeping soul(fringe), psyche split, vivid nightmare, n'zoth(who would not work this way obviously), seance, shadowy figure, kaahrj, mirage caller etc... Yes this would stop priest from reviving the same ragnaros and infiltrator, over and over and over and over, but it will not stop the deck at all, so priest has to play more bombs to rez so what? It's a wild deck....the amount of bombs that rez priest can pull from shadow essence is almost too many to list. It just means whenever the play shadow essence on turn 5 or six they won't know exactly what the card is where now as it is, if you're getting SMORCed down as a rez priest you can usually shadow essence into an obsidian stature pretty reliably every single time.

    it would make it unplayable. im all for the death of rez priest, but creating a graveyard kills rez priest. have you played games with graveyards? like MtG or even Mythgard? once a card is rezed from the graveyard its on the board. u cant rez it twice in the same turn. the card exists in the graveyard then its pulled into the board. so shadow essence on 6 then it dies then u cant rez it twice the following turn. its the death of the deck as aggro would just laugh at such weak plays. the swing turns of getting 2 lich kings or 2 statues on the following turn would be gone. i am all for it but it kills the deck.

    Imagine thinking resurrecting the same minion 10+ times in four turns is good game design and fun and interactive to both play with and against. 

    Living like that.

    1
  • Marega's Avatar 575 847 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago

    glad to see we agree.

    0
  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar 355 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From Marega

    I think the real question about big priest is why do people still play it?  It's clearly bad specially in this meta but for some reason some ppl just like to giggle like little idiots when they play a 2 mana card rez an 8+drop.

    People like playing decks that are on autopilot, shudderwock shaman, rez priest, aviana kun combo druid, Zul'jin hunter. Makes them have to make as little decision making as possible

    I don't think it's fair to make combo decks the scapegoat here. I've played plenty of control and aggro decks that have been quite auto pilot (Yes, even the beloved Reno Warlock is such a snoozefest when you're playing a control mirror).

    I'm really not a fan of this proposal though (and no I'm not a Big/Rez Priest fan or player, I actually really dislike the deck). Nerfing the rez mechanic in priest would just make any smaller rez synergies in other classes much more terrible in comparison. I also messes with generated copies of other cards that can rez the same non-priest card a 2nd time. So by nerfing priest we're really nerfing every class.

    The problem, in wild, is that Barnes was nerfed conveniently in time for Vargoth to replace him immediately. And that was honestly a buff to the deck, as I had said before the Barnes nerf was live then, because it made the pool more consistent and traded Barnes high rolling turn 4 wins for Vargoth's immense value engines and swing turns from high rolling Vargoth from Mass Resurrections to generate instant boards in one turn from an empty board, and be able to do that multiple times in the high end game.

    Since players generally refuse to use tech cards that summon wimpy minions on the opponent's board (because "Omg, how dare tech cards lower my win rates against decks I'm not targetting instead of being instant good cards like pre-nerf Albatross), I think the only realistic nerf now is by giving more classes transform effects, within reason (like the dual class shaman/mage spell).

    1
  • LyraSilvertongue's Avatar 355 383 Posts Joined 06/01/2019
    Posted 1 year, 4 months ago
    Quote From economicaooc

    Res priest is not a good deck right now, so a nerf would be completely uncalled for.

    Why do people hate this deck so much? It's slow, clunky and does nothing but summon proactive threats.

    If they print more ways for priests to accelerate out the minions, rather than just replaying cards they have already played, then the deck would probably occupy the same niche as big shaman, but with better lategame. That could be a problem, but it just isn't right now, and I can't imagine them ever printing that kind of card at a pushed cost.

    The types of answers available to the different classes are lackluster when trying to answer big and tall Big Priest boards depending on your class, even in wild, and that feels bad and quite punishing. For example, take rogue and druid for example. If you don't play aggro builds for either of those classes you aren't winning by pressuring them down as a win con so you're going to have to answer their threats. As those two classes how do you do that? Poison Seeds (this doesn't prevent the threats from immediately coming back next turn to pose the same immediately demanded answer), Vanish/Sap (Again it doesn't prevent rezzing or just replaying them). I don't believe in making classes good at everything and they do need their weaknesses, but being one class and queuing into another class shouldn't signal to you that you've lost right away. That never feels good in a video game.

    Also, the swing turns are punishing in the late game, as well as rng compounding this problem even more. Vargoth legit carries the modern archtype all by itself. Vargoth can create 6 mana minion swing turns for a mere 9 mana, often because one Mass Res high rolls into just one Vargoth clone. It's one thing to be able to expect Mass Res bringing back 3 big minions that you can try to prepare a counter play for, but having to guess if that 3 mana summon is really going to be a 6 or 7 mana summon is something else. And this play isn't even uncommon or hard to pull off. In fact, you can even duplicate this play multiple times simply by high rolling a Shadow Vision discover option and insta picking Mass Res. 

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