Let's talk about Rastakhan's Rumble.

Rastakhan's Rumble
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 827 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    Rastakhan's Rumble isn't exactly my favorite hearthstone expansion, but it still holds a place in my heart because it's the expansion that got me playing hearthstone again. It's the only expansion i've bought a preoder for. And it's the expansion with, in my opinion, the best trailer theme. Roll it.

     
    This is my favorite hearthstone trailer yet, and i listen to the instrumental version all the time when i'm working because i enjoy it so much. But i feel that this expansion had a lot of potential even though it was such a letdown let's start with the set mechanic Overkill.
     
    Overkill was the set mechanic for Rastakhan's Rumble and if you haven't checked in a while like i hadn't you'd notice there are only 14 cards with the mechanic, compare that to other sets at the time like boomsday project(magnetic-12), or witchwood(echo-13) and you'll notice a trend. There were very few cards with the mechanic back in the day. Which i will explain later as a detriment for the set. But staying on topic. Compare that to recent expansions. Rise of Shadows(Twinspell-8, Lackey-7), Saviors of Uldum(reborn-18), Decent of Dragons(invoke-17, Lackey-2)(galakrond's awakening giving more of old set mechanics(Twinspell-3, Reborn-2, Lackey-2)), Scholo(Spellburst-20), And this trend is not slowing down so far with Madness at the Darkmoon Faire having 27 corrupt cards, and that's not counting the miniset still to come, which i believe will add more corrupt cards to make Y'Shaarj, the Defiler worth using. 
     
    And that's my point. There wasn't enough of the mechanic for it to work, and there weren't good enough effect for the mechanic to see play. Some would argue we're running into that second problem with corrupt. And people ask: "Where are the good overkill effects, Why weren't there any that see play at all?" And i lead into the crux of my argument. Rumble. Run.
     
    If you haven't thought about this game mode in a while, i can't blame you, let me give you a refresher.
     
    You play as this guy Rikkar, And whichever path you choose for him, based on a Zandalari deity he changes his style and way of play which i think is really cool. 
    Show Spoiler
    You know what this HEAVILY reminds me of? Transfer Student, This could have been a 2 mana 2/2 "transfer student like" effect or galakrond like effect where the neutral card would change style depending on which class you played it in and have an effect from the rumble run. Either acting as a "Mini-shrine" of sorts or maybe even a mini version of the Rastakhan deity. My personal thoughts for the rikkar effects based on the shrines would have been:
    Show Spoiler
    Bonds of Balance Card ImageAKA a form of Speaker Gidra before it was released
    Halazzi's Trap Card ImageAs a form of Phase Stalker before it was released
    Jan'alai's Flame Card ImagePerhaps a controversial shrine to pick here, but mage had a lot of synergy that was waste with hero power in RR
    Shirvallah's Grace Card ImageDjinni of Zephyrs That would actually see play as a 2 mana 2/2 Plus it works with the paladin spirit
    Bwonsamdi's Covenant Card ImageAll of the priest shrines would be controversial picks here, i would change this to only minions if it were to be added.
    Pirate's Mark Card ImageAnother class with three controversial shrines if added, i feel this is the least controversial pick and it's an effect that can be dealt with easily on a 2/2
    Krag'wa's Grace Card ImageShaman is interesting since 2/3 shrines have already been added as of late with Vessina and Corrupt the Waters
    Another class with three degenerate shrines, if added it would be either a one turn effect or a one time effect, Potential otks involved…
    Akali's Horn Card ImageAn easy pick. And since warriors are basically the Rush class it should be fine
     
    Now to answer the question from earlier "Where are all the good overkill cards?" They were sent to rumble run to spare the main game mode. Rumble Run was not a balanced game mode if you remember right. And all the broken cards were very broken, but some of these i think can be EASILY salvaged into working cards for the main game mode with stat and cost changes, especially with what powercreep we've gotten since.
    Show Spoiler
    Astral Raptor Card ImageDirehorn Stomper Card ImageThe Fan Favorite Card ImageShowstopping Conjurer Card ImageExactor of Justice Card ImageBloodwash Medic Card ImageWar Heralder Card ImageRavenous Familiar Card ImageRedcrest Rocker Card Image
     
    If you're wondering where the good overkill cards went? There they are. Some better than others obviously but can you imagine? Imagine ravenous familiar in discard warlock. Redcrest rocker in dragon warrior which struggled so hard to remain relevant over doctor boom. Showstopping conjurer to fish for luna's pocket galaxy. Direhorn stomper and astral raptor. Even The fan favorite could have been a 10 mana 10/10 pack filler that would have been a GREAT pull off of Oondasta
     
    When people say this expansion is bad i get a little upset because i know it is bad. But it had so much potential to not be. And i think it was a great inspiration for future sets to come.  Thanks for reading if you did, praise gonk.

    Living like that.

    5
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 827 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    tl:dr

    Living like that.

    4
  • sinti's Avatar Global Moderator Chocolate Cake 2050 2672 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    I really loved a lot of cards in RR and the setting, but i will say it got kinda shrug off hard in HS history, when you look back.

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    2
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1680 4322 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    I was actually hyped when Rastakhan's rumble released but it wasn't long before the entire set was deemed too weak for much consideration. The power level and the cards we're seeing in RR is likely intentionally weak, forming the triumvirate with Witchwood and boomsday as the weakest set of expansions ever released (perhaps only surpassed by TGT in weakness), as a reactionary follow up against the huge spike in power introduced during the Ungoro-Kobolds expansions.

    Could team5 have made better cards, especially given that overkill remains one of the weakest descriptions today? The answer is an obvious yes. The adventure in RR (which I feel is perhaps the best solo adventure ever released) is more than enough proof that it wasn't for the lack of ideas. But the consequences would have been severe to push it too far, as we have seen in KotFT, where death knights were so overwhelmingly good that they remain staples even in wild today. To put a small example, we can easily imagine bloodwash medic or war heralder as a 3 mana 2/3, and it will still be one of the best cards in their respective classes today.

    I remember there was one interview of sorts that what we see in the RR adventure was sort of the initial idea for RR's core design, especially how the shrine works, but the dev then explained that this wasn't implemented cause' then every game would revolve around shrines. Its kinda a design balance; cards have to be good, but not too good or the next expansion would need to ramp the power levels every time just to keep up.

    1
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 827 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From dapperdog

    I remember there was one interview of sorts that what we see in the RR adventure was sort of the initial idea for RR's core design, especially how the shrine works, but the dev then explained that this wasn't implemented cause' then every game would revolve around shrines. Its kinda a design balance; cards have to be good, but not too good or the next expansion would need to ramp the power levels every time just to keep up.

    I heard this rumor too, but i mean what is the difference really between a shine you based a deck around and a quest you base your deck around ala Corrupt the Waters or Making Mummies? And this was before they introduced those quests. I'm not saying that direction would have made the expansion better, i'm just saying that it would have made it more interesting. Make the shrine like a quest where it always starts in your hand. You can play it whenever you want instead of it just being on the board and then you can either save it for a combo turn or fight for board control like you do in rumble run. Or like i said have the rikkar Transfer Student thing. And i think if bloodwash medic was a neutral card, along with war heralder, i think those would be some pretty great control tools for neutral(i wouldn't give it to priest because priest got a ton of control tools this expansion Mass Hysteria Seance). (and obviously tune back how many spells they would give)

    Living like that.

    0
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1680 4322 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From dapperdog

    I remember there was one interview of sorts that what we see in the RR adventure was sort of the initial idea for RR's core design, especially how the shrine works, but the dev then explained that this wasn't implemented cause' then every game would revolve around shrines. Its kinda a design balance; cards have to be good, but not too good or the next expansion would need to ramp the power levels every time just to keep up.

    I heard this rumor too, but i mean what is the difference really between a shine you based a deck around and a quest you base your deck around ala Corrupt the Waters or Making Mummies? And this was before they introduced those quests. I'm not saying that direction would have made the expansion better, i'm just saying that it would have made it more interesting. Make the shrine like a quest where it always starts in your hand. You can play it whenever you want instead of it just being on the board and then you can either save it for a combo turn or fight for board control like you do in rumble run. Or like i said have the rikkar Transfer Student thing. And i think if bloodwash medic was a neutral card, along with war heralder, i think those would be some pretty great control tools for neutral(i wouldn't give it to priest because priest got a ton of control tools this expansion Mass Hysteria Seance). (and obviously tune back how many spells they would give)

    That's the main problem with the shrines. Unlike quests, the shrines have no real conditions other than their mana costs, whereas quests have been widely acknowledged to be somewhat of a liability both in terms of their quest conditions and the fact that they take up a mulligan slot as well as your first turn. That's why despite the power levels of the quests rewards, we rarely see anyone playing Making Mummies, for example. There's also the problem with the somewhat permanence of the shrine (they come back after 2 turns), and its soft taunt nature.

    I've played and loved the Rumble run, but even I concede that it was just too much for standard. There was a tavern brawl that allowed us to basically play rumble run with real players and it got ugly pretty fast. Wouldn't want that to be a staple, that's for sure.

    Talking about shrines, the ones we got (spirits) eventually weren't really all that bad. Spirit of the Shark and frog were really powerful, Spirit of the Frog in particular will slot into just about any control or midrange shaman due to how bad shaman's draw was/is.

    I would like to agree with you over the bloodwash medic but its just not feasible for it to be available to all classes. Team5 specifically limits health gain cards for balance reasons (aggro wouldn't exist otherwise), so classes like rogue are limited by their health despite their value potential. I think we've seen enough of Antique Healbots and Zilliaxes to know how much they can carry metas.

    0
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 825 827 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From dapperdog
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From dapperdog

    I remember there was one interview of sorts that what we see in the RR adventure was sort of the initial idea for RR's core design, especially how the shrine works, but the dev then explained that this wasn't implemented cause' then every game would revolve around shrines. Its kinda a design balance; cards have to be good, but not too good or the next expansion would need to ramp the power levels every time just to keep up.

    I heard this rumor too, but i mean what is the difference really between a shine you based a deck around and a quest you base your deck around ala Corrupt the Waters or Making Mummies? And this was before they introduced those quests. I'm not saying that direction would have made the expansion better, i'm just saying that it would have made it more interesting. Make the shrine like a quest where it always starts in your hand. You can play it whenever you want instead of it just being on the board and then you can either save it for a combo turn or fight for board control like you do in rumble run. Or like i said have the rikkar Transfer Student thing. And i think if bloodwash medic was a neutral card, along with war heralder, i think those would be some pretty great control tools for neutral(i wouldn't give it to priest because priest got a ton of control tools this expansion Mass Hysteria Seance). (and obviously tune back how many spells they would give)

    I would like to agree with you over the bloodwash medic but its just not feasible for it to be available to all classes. Team5 specifically limits health gain cards for balance reasons (aggro wouldn't exist otherwise), so classes like rogue are limited by their health despite their value potential. I think we've seen enough of Antique Healbots and Zilliaxes to know how much they can carry metas.

    If soul fragment demon hunter exists where they can push massive damage and heal themselves at the same time exists then i think neutral healing can exist. Control still gets shafted the same variant of 4 mana 2 damage AOE since the game's inception but aggro gets voracious reader, if any archetype needed the help it's control. And i know the argument, blizzard doesn't like control because people play on their phones and they don't want games that go for more than 1 minute. If that's true then give us a gamemode to queue against control, or ban classes we queue against. I don't get to queue against demon hunter, shaman, or rogue, and you don't get to queue against priest or warrior. Everyone wins.

    Living like that.

    0
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1680 4322 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From clawz161
    Show Spoiler
    Quote From dapperdog
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From dapperdog

    I remember there was one interview of sorts that what we see in the RR adventure was sort of the initial idea for RR's core design, especially how the shrine works, but the dev then explained that this wasn't implemented cause' then every game would revolve around shrines. Its kinda a design balance; cards have to be good, but not too good or the next expansion would need to ramp the power levels every time just to keep up.

    I heard this rumor too, but i mean what is the difference really between a shine you based a deck around and a quest you base your deck around ala Corrupt the Waters or Making Mummies? And this was before they introduced those quests. I'm not saying that direction would have made the expansion better, i'm just saying that it would have made it more interesting. Make the shrine like a quest where it always starts in your hand. You can play it whenever you want instead of it just being on the board and then you can either save it for a combo turn or fight for board control like you do in rumble run. Or like i said have the rikkar Transfer Student thing. And i think if bloodwash medic was a neutral card, along with war heralder, i think those would be some pretty great control tools for neutral(i wouldn't give it to priest because priest got a ton of control tools this expansion Mass Hysteria Seance). (and obviously tune back how many spells they would give)

    I would like to agree with you over the bloodwash medic but its just not feasible for it to be available to all classes. Team5 specifically limits health gain cards for balance reasons (aggro wouldn't exist otherwise), so classes like rogue are limited by their health despite their value potential. I think we've seen enough of Antique Healbots and Zilliaxes to know how much they can carry metas.

    If soul fragment demon hunter exists where they can push massive damage and heal themselves at the same time exists then i think neutral healing can exist. Control still gets shafted the same variant of 4 mana 2 damage AOE since the game's inception but aggro gets voracious reader, if any archetype needed the help it's control. And i know the argument, blizzard doesn't like control because people play on their phones and they don't want games that go for more than 1 minute. If that's true then give us a gamemode to queue against control, or ban classes we queue against. I don't get to queue against demon hunter, shaman, or rogue, and you don't get to queue against priest or warrior. Everyone wins.

    I think we can all agree that dhunter is being designed like the blue eyed boy of hearthstone so comparisons is a bit redundant. I specifically think its bs that its the only tempo class that can heal efficiently. But that's the kinda thing we have to live with; like mage being designed like a slot machine, or shaman alternating between both ends of the tier list.

    But to be honest, if healing was more viable, it wouldn't make control better it would actually make it worse because then the meta would be filled with value decks. Spell mage, most rogue variants, and quest shaman will be top of the tier, and all these decks will practically destroy any control deck in standard.

    0
  • Zyella's Avatar Valeera 550 547 Posts Joined 10/16/2020
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From dapperdog
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From dapperdog

    I remember there was one interview of sorts that what we see in the RR adventure was sort of the initial idea for RR's core design, especially how the shrine works, but the dev then explained that this wasn't implemented cause' then every game would revolve around shrines. Its kinda a design balance; cards have to be good, but not too good or the next expansion would need to ramp the power levels every time just to keep up.

    I heard this rumor too, but i mean what is the difference really between a shine you based a deck around and a quest you base your deck around ala Corrupt the Waters or Making Mummies? And this was before they introduced those quests. I'm not saying that direction would have made the expansion better, i'm just saying that it would have made it more interesting. Make the shrine like a quest where it always starts in your hand. You can play it whenever you want instead of it just being on the board and then you can either save it for a combo turn or fight for board control like you do in rumble run. Or like i said have the rikkar Transfer Student thing. And i think if bloodwash medic was a neutral card, along with war heralder, i think those would be some pretty great control tools for neutral(i wouldn't give it to priest because priest got a ton of control tools this expansion Mass Hysteria Seance). (and obviously tune back how many spells they would give)

    That's the main problem with the shrines. Unlike quests, the shrines have no real conditions other than their mana costs, whereas quests have been widely acknowledged to be somewhat of a liability both in terms of their quest conditions and the fact that they take up a mulligan slot as well as your first turn. That's why despite the power levels of the quests rewards, we rarely see anyone playing Making Mummies, for example. There's also the problem with the somewhat permanence of the shrine (they come back after 2 turns), and its soft taunt nature.

    I've played and loved the Rumble run, but even I concede that it was just too much for standard. There was a tavern brawl that allowed us to basically play rumble run with real players and it got ugly pretty fast. Wouldn't want that to be a staple, that's for sure.

    Talking about shrines, the ones we got (spirits) eventually weren't really all that bad. Spirit of the Shark and frog were really powerful, Spirit of the Frog in particular will slot into just about any control or midrange shaman due to how bad shaman's draw was/is.

    I would like to agree with you over the bloodwash medic but its just not feasible for it to be available to all classes. Team5 specifically limits health gain cards for balance reasons (aggro wouldn't exist otherwise), so classes like rogue are limited by their health despite their value potential. I think we've seen enough of Antique Healbots and Zilliaxes to know how much they can carry metas.

    And shark acording to VS was still played more/used more then shouldve really been spirit of the shark.

    0
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