It's time for Hearthstone to have a new Format.

Madness at the Darkmoon Faire
  • AngryShuckie's Avatar 1695 1677 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
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    Quote From dapperdog
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    The new formats must also fulfill that one corporate criteria of generating profit. Duels fulfilled it via paywall and heroics mode, and so it follows that if a new format must be introduced at all, I'm sure it must go the same route; either paywalling certain features, or present a tacit requirement for players to spend some* money to have fun in it.

    I personally like the idea of a rotating 'limited wild' system, with the cards available for this format to change with every expansion. Will certainly be easier to balance, and will allow us to play with decks from previous metas. It wouldn't even take team5 that much to make it happen. But I hold little hope of seeing this ever coming through. Unless there's some pass you have to buy (either in gold or real money) every expansion to play this mode, I just can't see this design document ever getting past management approval.

    I would have thought it would help monetise Wild all by itself, at least enough to cover the small cost of implementing it (they don't need to do anything at all to support it beyond choosing new sets every so often). It would actually push people to buy Wild packs, whereas at the moment most Wild players already have what they need for the slowly changing meta and only buy Standard packs.

    It would certainly push wild pack sales if this was implemented, but there will come a time when nearly all serious players would already have all the wild cards they need and then the sales will come crashing to a halt, which will ironically come faster than we think because of the duplicate protection. That's probably why it hasn't been implemented yet, despite the fact that it wouldn't even come to close to the resources needed to implement the duels mode.

    There needs to be a monetization system for this mode that is equal if not surpassing that of duels for this to ever be a realistic consideration. Sadly that's the kind of world we live in with activision-blizz

     

    I'm not so doubtful they would consider it. A bit of digging found this article from ~10 months ago, where Dean Ayala asked about whether there were any "rotating format ideas [we] liked a lot": https://outof.cards/hearthstone/854-blizzards-dean-ayala-talks-about-no-plans-for-wild-nerfs-asks-the-community-about-rotating-formats. If that was February, and they heard a lot of pleas for a rotating Wild format, it could plausibly have made its way onto the year plan in April as the hidden new game mode for phase 3.

    As it stands, HS is failing to tap into the advantages of digital games being able to sell old packs to new players, and it cannot be that hard to convince the accounting department with the prospect of a permanent trickle of income from the entire history of the game for a low initial cost of setting it up.

    0
  • griffior's Avatar 925 303 Posts Joined 05/31/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
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    Quote From dapperdog
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    In all honesty, they could rotate some of these formats monthly and I'd be pretty happy with it. I just need some variance between Standard and Wild. Tribal could be a challenge for dragons and other tribes, one solution could be spell that spawn said 1/1 minions of that tribe. As for one of these formats becoming old really quick, that's inevitable, as for every mode that has came to the game. I see it as once the game has so much to do, it'll be hard to become tired of the game as a whole.

    What you're describing is effectively tavern brawl, but focusing only on the constructed deck parts, which wouldn't be a bad idea but since tavern brawl already exists, its kinda hard to justify selling another mode thats essentially a larger and longer tavern brawl.

    A slight comment on your comment about the tribal mode. Its a lot bigger problem than what I initially pointed out as an example. Murlocs and totems have more synergies than other tribes and are more or less confined within their own tribes. This is not the case for others, with the current pool of cards anyway. In order to make this work, team5 would have to create more cards, but the biggest problem would be, to paraphrase an old adage, "if everything is a tribe, then there are no tribes". Imagine an all or nothing murloc deck. Murloc Warleader might as well just read "all your minions have 2 attack". Where's the downside of a deck building constraint that comes with a tribe-heavy deck when we're only permitted to play said tribe cards? There's no conditions to fulfill, if the condition itself is mandatory from the start.

    Quote From griffior

    A format in which Wild sets rotate in and out was tried in the past, and it was terrible. I wouldn't be opposed to them trying it again though.

    The only instant I can remember of this was a tavern brawl that actually managed this, allowing us to only use cards from 3 different expansions (cant remember which, but GvG was certainly part of it). From what I recall, it was a smashing success for the few brief days it was up. The only downside was that it only lasted a few days so it seemed a waste of dust for those without the cards and only committed to standard.

    Maybe I'm missing something here, but to me that was one of the few tavern brawls I actually played just for the fun of it. Would be more than glad to see it full time.

     

    It could be harder to sell, but I think another ladder format, of a certain kind, would be welcomed. We as players are used to Standard and Wild and I don't think many would be against the idea of a new way to climb ladder.

    I see what you're saying with Tribal, and you're right. Murlocs have the most synergy and can stampede a board rather quickly. Team 5 could print more cards to support other Tribes to be on par with Murlocs, but the likelihood of that happening is equivalent to getting Tournament mode.

     

    I remember what it was, it was the Doom in the Tomb event where a number of cards came back and created a meta which funnily enough, was defined by Evolve Shaman. I didn't like that event itself since the Wild cards stayed for wat too long, but I wouldn't be opposed to something similar happening again.

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  • OldManSanns's Avatar Azir 1040 924 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    I wouldn't mind a format that is based around a rotating theme. E.g., maybe they have the theme be Explorers for ~3 months, and you are allowed to use cards from Saviors of Uldum and League of Explorers and a few select others that synergize with them. Somewhat comparable to MtG's "blocks", if you're familiar with that format.

    I've always been a little sad that Blizzard puts so much effort into lore and backstory and aesthetics, but it all goes to the wayside if the cards themselves can't beat whatever the standard meta is at that time.

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  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1780 4325 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From griffior

    I remember what it was, it was the Doom in the Tomb event where a number of cards came back and created a meta which funnily enough, was defined by Evolve Shaman. I didn't like that event itself since the Wild cards stayed for wat too long, but I wouldn't be opposed to something similar happening again.

    I think we can both agree that's hardly a fair assessment since team5 cherry picked cards from multiple expansions and grafted them onto standard. Either way, I didn't actually have any problems with it, since evolve shaman then was what I would call "manageable", hardly the same bs we are encountering right now. Like yourself, I would like to see more regular events like it in future.

    The tavern brawl I cited provides a more accurate picture, and as I have mentioned, it was to me a great success.

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  • Live4vrRdieTryn's Avatar 485 866 Posts Joined 07/14/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    Just make Duels playable, maybe?

    HS Needs Mirror Mode: Make Any Deck, 50% You Play it Versus Itself or Play Someone Else's Vs Theirs.

    Please Help Support This Obvious and Needed Idea. Stop Playing With 1% of your Collection.

    -1
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1780 4325 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
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    Quote From AngryShuckie

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    The new formats must also fulfill that one corporate criteria of generating profit. Duels fulfilled it via paywall and heroics mode, and so it follows that if a new format must be introduced at all, I'm sure it must go the same route; either paywalling certain features, or present a tacit requirement for players to spend some* money to have fun in it.

    I personally like the idea of a rotating 'limited wild' system, with the cards available for this format to change with every expansion. Will certainly be easier to balance, and will allow us to play with decks from previous metas. It wouldn't even take team5 that much to make it happen. But I hold little hope of seeing this ever coming through. Unless there's some pass you have to buy (either in gold or real money) every expansion to play this mode, I just can't see this design document ever getting past management approval.

    I would have thought it would help monetise Wild all by itself, at least enough to cover the small cost of implementing it (they don't need to do anything at all to support it beyond choosing new sets every so often). It would actually push people to buy Wild packs, whereas at the moment most Wild players already have what they need for the slowly changing meta and only buy Standard packs.

    It would certainly push wild pack sales if this was implemented, but there will come a time when nearly all serious players would already have all the wild cards they need and then the sales will come crashing to a halt, which will ironically come faster than we think because of the duplicate protection. That's probably why it hasn't been implemented yet, despite the fact that it wouldn't even come to close to the resources needed to implement the duels mode.

    There needs to be a monetization system for this mode that is equal if not surpassing that of duels for this to ever be a realistic consideration. Sadly that's the kind of world we live in with activision-blizz

     

    I'm not so doubtful they would consider it. A bit of digging found this article from ~10 months ago, where Dean Ayala asked about whether there were any "rotating format ideas [we] liked a lot": https://outof.cards/hearthstone/854-blizzards-dean-ayala-talks-about-no-plans-for-wild-nerfs-asks-the-community-about-rotating-formats. If that was February, and they heard a lot of pleas for a rotating Wild format, it could plausibly have made its way onto the year plan in April as the hidden new game mode for phase 3.

    As it stands, HS is failing to tap into the advantages of digital games being able to sell old packs to new players, and it cannot be that hard to convince the accounting department with the prospect of a permanent trickle of income from the entire history of the game for a low initial cost of setting it up.

    Yeah I remembered that. That was what led me to believe that the incoming new format was going to be exactly a rotating wild mode. Then reality hit and we got duels instead, which incidentally enough, also came with the idea of a rotating set. Maybe the stars will align and limited wild gets considered in some distant future. But its becoming clear from battlegrounds and now duels, that unless a strong and subtle monetary system can be jammed, crying and screaming, right into it, I'm not optimistic.

    -1
  • dapperdog's Avatar Dragon Scholar 1780 4325 Posts Joined 07/29/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
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    Quote From clawz161

    All hearthstone needs is a way to ban classes. You don't like playing against rez priest or control warrior? You like aggro v aggro matchups? Ban warrior and priest. Don't like face decks? Ban rogue, shaman, and demon hunter. Queue times would be longer but game QUALITY would increase. I HATE playing this game most of the time, usually i don't even want to log in for the dailies. Because i know that in the hour or less time it would take me to accomplish winning 7 times. I will get shit on at least 6 times, by people luckier than me, playing netdecks.

    Probably impossible. Not least because classes are designed to have some intrinsic weakness against one another, like how hunter has an intrinsic advantage against most rogue and mage decks. So if your wish comes true, then all I need is to make up some hyper face hunter and ban warrior, paladin, shaman and maybe dhunter. Or ultra late game value rogue deck, with hunter and dhunter bans.

    Logistics aside, it's not impossible.  Warcraft 3 let people ban maps that they didn't like.  There's not much difference there.  And IF (big IF) a ban system were put into place it would most likely be "ban the 2 classes you don't want to see".  This still leaves 8 other classes to counter your deck.  With a big enough playerbase, this wouldn't even really affect queue times to be honest.  It's not the best solution, but it is a viable solution..

    Its hardly the same comparing banning classes with map bans in W3. From the competitive standpoint, the map bans were explained as necessary since certain maps are either too large, present too few resources, or simply skewed towards certain races. No such dilemma exists for hearthstone.

    Allowing class bans in hearthstone is more or less equal to race bans in W3, in which case nearly everyone will ban either orcs or humans. Humans in particular.

    In hearthstone, banning classes has huge implications. Aside from the ones I mentioned earlier, it also affects card design to a rather bizarre point where the stronger the deck the less it will face anything else aside from itself. Tech cards will be mostly unnecessary, while some cards like healing or board clears can be put aside with clever ban strats. In other words, its possible to simply have decks that have no counters.

    Apart from everything else, it also doesnt really solve anything. Metas will simply adapt, and pretty soon we'll be seeing reports on what to ban, and what to play on certain bans. Then what follows would be the same thing as it has always been; people complaining about netdecking with an additional gripe on how the bans are unfair to certain classes (of which I would agree)

    -1
  • AngryShuckie's Avatar 1695 1677 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
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    Quote From dapperdog

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    The new formats must also fulfill that one corporate criteria of generating profit. Duels fulfilled it via paywall and heroics mode, and so it follows that if a new format must be introduced at all, I'm sure it must go the same route; either paywalling certain features, or present a tacit requirement for players to spend some* money to have fun in it.

    I personally like the idea of a rotating 'limited wild' system, with the cards available for this format to change with every expansion. Will certainly be easier to balance, and will allow us to play with decks from previous metas. It wouldn't even take team5 that much to make it happen. But I hold little hope of seeing this ever coming through. Unless there's some pass you have to buy (either in gold or real money) every expansion to play this mode, I just can't see this design document ever getting past management approval.

    I would have thought it would help monetise Wild all by itself, at least enough to cover the small cost of implementing it (they don't need to do anything at all to support it beyond choosing new sets every so often). It would actually push people to buy Wild packs, whereas at the moment most Wild players already have what they need for the slowly changing meta and only buy Standard packs.

    It would certainly push wild pack sales if this was implemented, but there will come a time when nearly all serious players would already have all the wild cards they need and then the sales will come crashing to a halt, which will ironically come faster than we think because of the duplicate protection. That's probably why it hasn't been implemented yet, despite the fact that it wouldn't even come to close to the resources needed to implement the duels mode.

    There needs to be a monetization system for this mode that is equal if not surpassing that of duels for this to ever be a realistic consideration. Sadly that's the kind of world we live in with activision-blizz

     

    I'm not so doubtful they would consider it. A bit of digging found this article from ~10 months ago, where Dean Ayala asked about whether there were any "rotating format ideas [we] liked a lot": https://outof.cards/hearthstone/854-blizzards-dean-ayala-talks-about-no-plans-for-wild-nerfs-asks-the-community-about-rotating-formats. If that was February, and they heard a lot of pleas for a rotating Wild format, it could plausibly have made its way onto the year plan in April as the hidden new game mode for phase 3.

    As it stands, HS is failing to tap into the advantages of digital games being able to sell old packs to new players, and it cannot be that hard to convince the accounting department with the prospect of a permanent trickle of income from the entire history of the game for a low initial cost of setting it up.

    Yeah I remembered that. That was what led me to believe that the incoming new format was going to be exactly a rotating wild mode. Then reality hit and we got duels instead, which incidentally enough, also came with the idea of a rotating set. Maybe the stars will align and limited wild gets considered in some distant future. But its becoming clear from battlegrounds and now duels, that unless a strong and subtle monetary system can be jammed, crying and screaming, right into it, I'm not optimistic.

     

    I am hoping that the new game mode penned in for the DMF block is the simple rotating Wild format. It's proximity to the release of Duels makes it unlikely to be something that requires a lot of effort to implement, and more likely to be something they could sort out quickly. (These are the same devs that took forever to do the obvious and give us a scroll bar for extra deck slots, so 'quickly' is a relative term.)

    -1
  • Zyella's Avatar Valeera 550 547 Posts Joined 10/16/2020
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From h0lysatan

    Or, just give the players option to create a custom play. (Like custom maps in warcraft 3)

    If was any new Mode id love nothign more then this.

    0
  • griffior's Avatar 925 303 Posts Joined 05/31/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago
    Quote From Zyella
    Quote From h0lysatan

    Or, just give the players option to create a custom play. (Like custom maps in warcraft 3)

    If was any new Mode id love nothign more then this.

    I made a concept for one, but looking back it's too much content for free without Team 5 being able to really monetize it.

    0
  • Maurice's Avatar Eldritch Horror 610 263 Posts Joined 07/12/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    I would like to have a "Speed mode" or just the option to speed up the game in general. Especially the animations are all waaay to slow! You should have the option to set the animation speed to 2x, 3x or even 4x.

    I see you!

    1
  • NegativeNemsy's Avatar 405 203 Posts Joined 07/10/2019
    Posted 1 year, 9 months ago

    I would like to see temporary buffs to select cards in the wild format (especially legendaries and epics that don't see much play).  1 time at the start of the month, buff a set of cards in each class, and let the last set of buffs go back to their original mana/stats.  Rinse and repeat.

    0
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