Glimpse Beyond nerf idea

  • CursedParrot's Avatar 560 675 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    Most people would agree that Glimpse Beyond is too powerful in its current state. The main problem is that it can be used as a 2 Mana draw 2 cards with no penalty if cast in response to a removal spell. I would fix this by changing its text to:

    2 Mana ”Kill an ally to draw 2. This costs 1 more if there’s another Spell or Skill on the Spellstack”

    This way, Glimpse remains as powerful if used to sacrifice a unit outside of combat or not as a reaction, but it becomes weaker as a response, changing into a 3 Mana draw 2 Spell, which seems like a balanced card. This change might seem like it’s too minor, but I think it would bring Glimpse from “too powerful” to “very good”. What do you all think? Would this be too big of a nerf, or too small of one? 

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 560 675 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    Essentially, this would mean that Glimpse could either be played as a 2 Mana Slow Spell or as a 3 Mana fast Spell, so it retains a lot of its power while making its best case use a little worse

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  • OldManSanns's Avatar Administrator Azir 995 897 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From CursedParrot

    Most people would agree that Glimpse Beyond is too powerful in its current state. The main problem is that it can be used as a 2 Mana draw 2 cards with no penalty if cast in response to a removal spell. 

    I wouldn't say that at all.  It's a SI staple, sure, but that's hardly the same thing as "too powerful".  It's 2 mana, it needs to successfully sacrifice a friendly unit, AND its a card itself so it its only netting you +1 draw. 

    Your second sentence says a lot: it sounds like you're playing your removal aggressively, and your opponent is rightly punishing you for it.  If you suspect your opponent is holding on to a Glimpse, either wait until they tap out or wait until you have double-removal.  Coming from the opposite end of this matchup: it really sucks when my Glimpse is just sitting in my hand feeling like a dead card, or when I finally do commit to it only to have it fizzle out.  I NEED to convert that card into Draw 2 in order to succeed, so anything you can do to make that task difficult to me is going to be to your advantage.

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 560 675 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    Yeah, I have played Glimpse a lot and it does feel bad when it’s stuck in hand without a way to get rid of it. The issue with using a second removal is that then you’re spending another removal on just denying some card draw, which can be difficult to do at times. Also, given Glimpse’s low Mana cost its somewhat like pre-nerf Deny, the opposing player can just always keep Spell Mana open. Another point of my nerf is to make it so that glimpse is only really good in a deck with targets to get rid of, since the way it is now glimpse can be run in almost any deck since you can count on most opponents having at least 1 removal Spell. Also, Glimpse gets a lot of value from being able to Counter Spells like Single Combat or prevent Champion level ups (like Ezreal or Yasuo), so I think that extra value should be accounted for by making Glimpse worse at fast speed

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  • CursedParrot's Avatar 560 675 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    Also, I’m approaching Glimpse less as someone who doesn’t like it played against him, and more as someone who dislikes feeling obligated to include it in every shadow isles deck I make. Whenever I make a Shadow isles deck I always feel like I have to include a package of Hapless Aristocrat and Glimpse because the synergy is so good (and also there is not a lot of card draw available, which is another problem). If Glimpse was a little bit worse without support cards (Last Breath and Ephemerals) I think it could lead to more diversity in shadow isles decks

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  • meisterz39's Avatar 730 949 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    Riot has said they're monitoring Glimpse Beyond precisely for it's "soft counter" ability with card draw, so I think the sentiment that folks generally agree it's too powerful is entirely right.

    There was a nerf prediction thread a while back where I suggested a change to this card. My change was very similar to yours - I suggested the following: Make it Burst Speed, and change the text to "Kill an ally to draw 2. You cannot cast this if other spells are on the stack."

    1
  • KANSAS's Avatar Old God Fanatic 1715 2711 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    I do not play LoR, but I am not a fan of balancing cards in this way. If a card is too OP in a certain situation, then you shouldn't change the card to say "this doesn't work in this specific situation".

    If Glimpse Beyond is too powerful at instant speed, then maybe reduce it to sorcery speed so that it can't be played as a response to another instant speed removal spell. 

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    0
  • meisterz39's Avatar 730 949 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From KANSAS

    I do not play LoR, but I a, not a fan of balancing cards in this way. If a card is too OP in a certain situation, then you shouldn't change the card to say "this doesn't work in this specific situation".

    If Glimpse Beyond is too powerful at instant speed, then maybe reduce it to sorcery speed so that it can't be played as a response to another instant speed removal spell. 

    Respectfully, it's very clear you don't play LoR - you're talking about balancing it in MTG speed terms. There are three spell speeds: slow, fast, and burst. Slow and fast map well onto sorcery and instant speeds respectively, but burst speed works like an instant that automatically resolves rather than go on the stack.

    But even more importantly, LoR has rounds that are shared in a way that MTG turns aren't. Whenever a player takes a slow action (casts a slow spell, plays a unit), priority switches, and a player can rally their attack on their opponent's turn. So, there are a lot of times when you can't afford to kill your own unit as part of a slow spell because it opens you up to attack, even if you have the mana to summon more units. 

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  • KANSAS's Avatar Old God Fanatic 1715 2711 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From meisterz39
    Quote From KANSAS

    I do not play LoR, but I a, not a fan of balancing cards in this way. If a card is too OP in a certain situation, then you shouldn't change the card to say "this doesn't work in this specific situation".

    If Glimpse Beyond is too powerful at instant speed, then maybe reduce it to sorcery speed so that it can't be played as a response to another instant speed removal spell. 

    Respectfully, it's very clear you don't play LoR - you're talking about balancing it in MTG speed terms. There are three spell speeds: slow, fast, and burst. Slow and fast map well onto sorcery and instant speeds respectively, but burst speed works like an instant that automatically resolves rather than go on the stack.

    But even more importantly, LoR has rounds that are shared in a way that MTG turns aren't. Whenever a player takes a slow action (casts a slow spell, plays a unit), priority switches, and a player can rally their attack on their opponent's turn. So, there are a lot of times when you can't afford to kill your own unit as part of a slow spell because it opens you up to attack, even if you have the mana to summon more units. 

    I actually did play a bit of LoR when it first went into open beta, I just couldn't remember exactly what the different speeds were called. 

    My balance idea wasn't meant to be taken seriously, it was just an example to show how I would balance it.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

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  • CableKnight's Avatar Content Squad Rexxar 385 187 Posts Joined 03/14/2019
    Posted 11 months, 3 weeks ago

    Personally I think it's fine as is; adding more rules to the card probably will never happen because Riot wants to keep it simple, and a better way to introduce more diversity in shadow isles (imo) is with cards like Maokai. 

    Gosh dang it, cards bad.

    1
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