New Freljord Landmark - The Howling Abyss

  • Arthas's Avatar Black Lotus 780 1943 Posts Joined 03/10/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    A new Epic Freljord Landmark, The Howling Abyss, has been revealed!

    The Howling Abyss Card Image

    Discuss this card below or head on over to the card page to give it a rating!


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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 370 395 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 7 months ago

    Now this is quite a casual card. Nobody can afford to run a card like this that put you behind 7 mana for an effect that can be completely useless. It is cool,  but pointless from a competetive perspective 

    0
  • FortyDust's Avatar Mankrik's Wife 795 1176 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    This is exactly what people are talking about when they say "bad RNG." It's the kind of card that makes people prejudiced against all RNG, when the problem is actually just bad design of this particular card.

    Then again, there are so many Champions that are mediocre or bad if your deck doesn't support them, I don't think you'll be winning because of the specific Champion generated very often. More likely, you'll win because of the infinite value, which sucks just as much.

    I REALLY HATE INFINITE VALUE, AND THIS CARD MAKES ME VERY ANGRY.

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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 370 395 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 7 months ago

    Again, i doubt that this card is competetive. Sure it is in theory infinite value but in practice it is just too slow and unreliable to be any competetive 

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  • Grumpy000's Avatar Bronze Supporter 1295 711 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    too slow to be useful

    I am 68 years old and still reach Legend

    0
  • FenrirWulf's Avatar Duskrider 735 200 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    Is this perhaps the reason to play Freljord Purrsuit of Perfection?

    1
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 620 688 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    @FortyDust

    Sure this is kind of infinite value, but it is infinite value of random champions. Because of that, if the opponent has any way to finish the game the Infinite value won't matter. I also calculated it and the average cost of a champion is 4.33 mana (58% of champions cost 4 or less and 79% of champions cost 5 or less), so the champions you get from Howling Abyss likely won't be able to compete with something like an Infinite Mindsplitter, Warmother's Call, or Celestials for late-game power. Having only 5 unit slots also limits the power of the ability by a lot (because in the late game you might have a full board and your 4/4 Fiora in hand becomes really useless). Not all infinite value is necessarily bad (for example, a card that filled your hand with 1 cost Poros every round would be a fine card). Howling Abyss isn't even a win condition, it's a meme condition.

    P.S. I'm not trying to call you out or anything, I just wanted to show you my thought process from "I hate this" to "this is probably fine"  

    4
  • FortyDust's Avatar Mankrik's Wife 795 1176 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 7 months ago
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    Again, i doubt that this card is competetive. Sure it is in theory infinite value but in practice it is just too slow and unreliable to be any competetive 

    If that's true -- if it's really not worth playing -- that's just another reason to hate it.

    @Cursed Parrot: The problem is that you can have this on the board in addition to Mindsplitter, Warmother's Call, and Celestials. I totally agree that this card isn't a win condition on its own, but if you can play it and stabilize, you can just sit back and wait for a winning card to appear -- either from the Abyss or from the good cards you have in your deck. You don't stop drawing after you've played this card, so your chances of finding something useful increase dramatically. If your hand fills up with cheap Champs, you can always play them and immediately play over them as needed.

    -3
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 370 395 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 7 months ago
    Quote From FortyDust
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    Again, i doubt that this card is competetive. Sure it is in theory infinite value but in practice it is just too slow and unreliable to be any competetive 

    If that's true -- if it's really not worth playing -- that's just another reason to hate it.

    You don't have a sense for fun and casual card designs do you?

    The Abyss is not meant to be part of top tier, it is meant for fun times in friendly pvp matches what is great!

    You won't lose any mmr, won't have to deal with it in competetive play and timmis got spectacular moments to make youtube material of...

    I call that a huge win without great risk to backfire 

    5
  • OldManSanns's Avatar Administrator Azir 1000 913 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    I don't think this will be an extremely successful card (i.e., in terms of winrate), but I do anticipate it being a very fun card. Random L2 champions are probably good enough to consistently win Expeditions but not Constructed, so you'll need a bit of luck on your side too.

    If anything, I'm sad that they made this an Epic as it seems like it would be a fun memey deck that casuals would enjoy.  

    1
  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 555 494 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    I dunno guys, my verdict is yet to be determined on this. It definitely could be terrible, like everyone is saying.

    But I did a quick skim of the leveled up champions that would be good without any support, and it looks like more than half of them fit that description. The ones that are obviously bad include Fizz, Teemo, Elise, Maokai, Fiora, Diana, Braum, and probably Nautilus (though Naut could be quite a hit if you're Deep). Karma, Heimer, and Lux could be bad, depending how many spells are in your deck. Tryndamere is pretty meh as well. Everything else is actually pretty good for its cost.

    This card might be quite a bit more menacing than it looks at first. Even Katarina could be pretty amazing when you get her for free into a board that's already developed.

    Edit: I counted out (according to my own opinion) four categories of level 2 champions: Bad, Iffy/Situational, Good, Very good. Here's my counts-

    Bad - 7 (16.2%) - (see above)

    Iffy - 5 (11.6%) - (Karma, Heimer, Lux, Tryndamere, Katarina)

    Good - 22 (51.2%) - (Everything not specifically listed)

    Very good - 9 (21%) - (Sejuani, Asol, Swain, Twisted Fate, Thresh, Kalista, Vi, Lee Sin, Nautilus)

    Meaning you have a 72% chance to get a champ that is either good or very good. And of course, we all know that a free flipped Asol into Invoked Living Legends is a thing that WILL happen.

    Edit #2 - Topandito makes a great point, which my brain somehow missed. Nautilus is a 13/13 tough fearsome, every time. That puts him solidly in the Very Good bin instead of the bad one.

    2
  • Topandito's Avatar 825 383 Posts Joined 03/29/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    Small note, deep or not Nautilus will be a 13/13 since this specifies they are leveled up automatically by the effect of the landmark.

    2
  • BasilAnguis's Avatar Dragon Scholar 625 230 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    Maokai probably wins you the game on the spot, instant mill. Opponent has 4 turns left before dying to fatigue

    I'll boop you 

    0
  • FrostyFeet's Avatar Senior Moderator Derpcorn 1735 1254 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 7 months ago
    Quote From BasilAnguis

    Maokai probably wins you the game on the spot, instant mill. Opponent has 4 turns left before dying to fatigue

    The mill effect has "when I level up" condition, which would suggest that an already leveled Maokai won't have the effect. Otherwise it would indeed be a pretty broken card to get from The Howling Abyss.

    3
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 370 395 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 7 months ago

    Maokai mills your deck as he levels up but since he doesn't level when you get him from the HA he is only a 2/5 token generator for 4

    1
  • thazud's Avatar Duskrider 245 77 Posts Joined 06/05/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    I dont't like these card of cards because they are part of the reason why I don't play Hearthstone anymore. With that said I think it is balanced quite nicely and won't be a competitive card. 

    • It's a value generator that can low- or highrole. And as previously discussed in this thread "when I level up" conditions do not trigger. 
    • It's essentially 7 mana do nothing, so you have to be in a good position to play this card otherwise you are prone to open attacks. 
    • They have printed counters to these kind of cards. 
    • Champions tend to require some build-around to be good; teemo, Fiora, Maokai, Yasuo to name a few. 
    • It's a meme card. 
    • It is a horrible card to draw in your opening hand. 

    However, there can be some feel bad moments if it gives the opponent a level 2 Asol and he/she starts snowballing. 

    On the plus side it will probably generate a few good Youtube highlights. But Riot... careful with the RNG. 

    2
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 620 688 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    @Thazud

    I agree with you completely about this card being the kind of design that made me dislike Hearthstone. This is probably a very balanced card (I don’t anticipate something like the Yogg meta because of this) but very few cards like this should be printed. Hopefully this card will create some good highlight reels and moments (like when Kripparian Unstable Portal’ed into a Nefarian into a Sacrificial Pact against Jarraxus) but sees no serious play.

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  • Tofukozo's Avatar 240 43 Posts Joined 07/15/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    I really do not enjoy these random effects. I wish they did not go into this direction.

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  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 555 494 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    @Thuzad

    Just a quick note - Level 2 Yasuo is a 5/5 Quick Attack for 4 cost. I'm pretty sure that's good, even with zero synergy in the deck. Similar for Jinx as well - 5/4 Quick Attack (though a deck with this Landmark in it probably never empties its hand - so that part probably never comes into play). We do have to always keep in mind, however, the raw stats and keywords of level 2 champions (like 10/6 overwhelm for 6 cost - Darius; or 13/13 tough, fearsome for 7 cost - Nautilus). Even Braum, whom I rated as bad, still has challenger and 6 health with regeneration.

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  • Freforos's Avatar Draconically Dedicated 320 319 Posts Joined 11/21/2019
    Posted 7 months ago

    I'd hate the card if it was strong, but it's a 7 effective mana do nothing, so i'm ok with it; it's just a meme card to have some fun. 

    i'll probably even try it 

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