Is Viego Too Universally Good?

  • Nifty129's Avatar 250 351 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Very seldom have we seen a situation where a champion can essentially be jammed into a variety of lists and have them be statistically competitive if not amazing.

    Right now on mobalytics you'll see 4 different lists of similar viability

    - shadow demacia

    - shadow Ionia

    - shadow freijord

    - momo shadow

    All of which perform essentially the same, suggesting that A Viego is so strong that he doesn't need much deck support B he is so strong his support cards don't matter.

    Just 3 drop plus hydra, plus glimpse, and away we go.

    I really like the idea that legends is a game where cards have to be built around.

    But given the fact that Viego is both a she who wanders, and a better kindred, suggests that maybe we add more support for him while narrowing down exactly what kind of card he's supposed to be.

    Is he a finisher  is he a controller, or is he simple a bomb that does everything? Cuz thats what he is right now.

    Not to mention the token generation makes him function similar to Elise or heckarim.

    So 3 champions in one body, and the only champion who's spell functions as a better vengeance.

     

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  • Topandito's Avatar 860 417 Posts Joined 03/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    I mean I tend to think that Viego is too strong but for some reason the community appears to see things differently. Maybe they are missing something, or more likely than that, maybe we are. That said I do think that the fact that he usually comes down as a 5 mana 6/5 or even 7/6 makes it so that you're really not risking much in playing him ever. Worst case he requires some insane amount of removal to keep him from steam rolling the opponent and best case he...well he steam rolls the opponent with endless pressure and a win condition if he sticks around long enough to level.

    As a note though they usually make these new champions too strong on release...I just think Viego is more blatantly obvious in his being over tuned since he rarely even comes into play with the stat line they designed him with.

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  • FenrirWulf's Avatar Duskrider 755 256 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    I think I would say that Viego is pretty good as of now. Reminds me when Aurelion Sol came out where leveling him up would end the game but this happens a lot faster. I do like the fact that they pushed him as strong instead of weak. I don't really want another case of TaliyahZilean or Malphite where they are weak and since they don't have enough sample sizes due to low play rates, it becomes harder to see what cards to buff. I think that they are probably going to nerf him or at least his support cards because I do think that he levels up a bit too quickly and he has a tad bit too much stats. I'm predicting that he's going to be nerfed to 6 Mana but honestly I'm not even sure if that's going to change much.

    Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm unranked and only play casuals lmao.

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  • minuano28's Avatar 500 443 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    I like the fact that he can be built in different kind decks. Runeterra could definitely use more champions like that.

    However he is definitely overtuned, he summon extra units, buff himself and said units and once he levels up which not that hard to do, he pretty much wins the game on his own even other 5 mana champions like Lee Sin and Swain needs other cards to finish the job.

    I think that they need to take away the health gain from the Encroaching Mist. So that he wouldn't impossible to kill for regions that don't have access to hard removal.

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  • Nifty129's Avatar 250 351 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Yeah it really depends on your philosophy, Zillian, Malphite, and Thaliyah are amazingly well designed cards, and I'll throw Eko in there...but yes they are bad.

    The most optimized Eko list has a 40% winrate when piloted by the best players.

    But is the solution for releasing a new champions just to make it universally good at everything so it does see play?

    Seems like Riot was maybe getting frustrated and thought it better just to overtune and nerf later.

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  • FenrirWulf's Avatar Duskrider 755 256 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago
    Quote From Nifty129

    But is the solution for releasing a new champions just to make it universally good at everything so it does see play?

    Seems like Riot was maybe getting frustrated and thought it better just to overtune and nerf later.

    Idk but it's not really an uncommon game design philosophy. It's easier to nerf than buff. I think most people can agree with that. So it's better to design a champion that's pretty good than one that can't be played. I don't mind it, it keeps the meta fresh. But when you get stuff like Azir and Irelia and not nerf them, that's when I get worried. This is still fine... for now.

    Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm unranked and only play casuals lmao.

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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 385 492 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Am I the only one who eighter runs Sejuani Swain or Vi Riven, decks that both don't care about Viego because the only thing that matters to these decks is how much hard removal the opponent has (which Viego decks do not tend to have plenty of)

    To me Viego seems very doable as a matchup but sure: Viego is a very strong aggro counter while giving control a hard time aswell. 

    I don't think he has to be nerfed but that comes from someone who plays decks that only care about the opponent's answers, not their threats

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  • BingoNoEyes's Avatar 130 61 Posts Joined 05/07/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    Am I the only one who eighter runs Sejuani Swain or Vi Riven, decks that both don't care about Viego because the only thing that matters to these decks is how much hard removal the opponent has (which Viego decks do not tend to have plenty of)

    To me Viego seems very doable as a matchup but sure: Viego is a very strong aggro counter while giving control a hard time aswell. 

    I don't think he has to be nerfed but that comes from someone who plays decks that only care about the opponent's answers, not their threats

    I feel you there. I am currently running a Zed/Darius aggrieved deck, and I really have to worry only about my opponents removal. Control gets slaughtered by it

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  • Nifty129's Avatar 250 351 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Yeah well right now control gets slaughtered by everything unless they are in noxious for flock, as it's the best removal in the game and the only one that's remained competitive with combat tricks.

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  • KangTheConqueror's Avatar Banned 150 63 Posts Joined 07/20/2021
    Posted 1 week, 4 days ago

    Maybe but they should keep him as is don't need to nerf everything

    Ruler of the Multiverse, Lord of Time, The Twentieth Century belongs to Kang! 

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  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 560 536 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Let's just look at the filtered data before we make conclusions. Here is the most recent meta data for plat+, thanks to Kozmic. Viego/Nasus is the most played deck in the meta at 9% playrate. Its winrate is a whopping 50%.

    The other two Viego decks that make the top 10 most played decks only have 2-3% of the meta each. Viego Plaza has a 44% winrate and Viego dragons has a 42% winrate.

    Maybe he feels unfair when you're losing to him, but I don't think those numbers require any kind of response presently.

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  • Nifty129's Avatar 250 351 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    For sure I had said before that tempo decks are ruling the meta right now.

    Like if thresh Nasus is the best "shadow" deck with an atrocity win con it only hits 53% tops

    If you want to win games, play a bunch of stuff, and if you can't do that spam burst spells.

    Thats kind of the sad state of things at the moment

    The only way to fix this is to buff removal bit we've had that talk before

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  • KangTheConqueror's Avatar Banned 150 63 Posts Joined 07/20/2021
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago
    Quote From sto650

    Let's just look at the filtered data before we make conclusions. Here is the most recent meta data for plat+, thanks to Kozmic. Viego/Nasus is the most played deck in the meta at 9% playrate. Its winrate is a whopping 50%.

    The other two Viego decks that make the top 10 most played decks only have 2-3% of the meta each. Viego Plaza has a 44% winrate and Viego dragons has a 42% winrate.

    Maybe he feels unfair when you're losing to him, but I don't think those numbers require any kind of response presently.

    Yeah after seeing the Viego deck statistics Viego doesn't seem problematic yet. There are better decks than viego decks right now but if those get nerfed then maybe we can talk about Viego

    Ruler of the Multiverse, Lord of Time, The Twentieth Century belongs to Kang! 

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  • Nifty129's Avatar 250 351 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    The original point was that the card was too "universally" good which is to say he literally fits in everywhere and does everything.

    Go to mobalytics and the number of viego decks outstrip every single other champion.

    But yes they all basically suck the same amount and are tier 3.

    Because when a champ is designed to do everything he also does nothing well.

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  • BingoNoEyes's Avatar 130 61 Posts Joined 05/07/2020
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    If we wait it out, we will probably see a drop in play. Champions usually get overplayed when they are first released, and then it evens ou

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  • VaBeZ's Avatar Eldritch Horror 850 87 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    So far, I saw him in Demacian or Shuriman Midrange, and Freljordian Control decks. He is flexible, yes, a mid-to-lategame threat. But currently, personally, I don't find him dangerous. Just don't let him "live" too long, and you are good to go.

    Ex-Hearthstone veteran, Runeterra intermediate player.

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