Jayce Overview

  • Nifty129's Avatar
    370 522 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago

    Gonna keep it real short, good news we get more Lux support, bad news they added more cycling at 2 mana.

    We are basically in a situation where every single competitive archetype will need to have 2 and 3 mana cycling solutions or be soooo fast and agressive as to not care.

    So it doesn't really matter if your 2/2 steals a card from your opponent, generated a 6 mana spell, creates more creatures, or invokes as long as you're trading on board and not loosing cards.

    I kinda hate this from a long term growth perspective...like is Ionia gonna start getting 2/2's that generate cheap spells for Lee Sin oh wait they have Zoe and that still isn't good enough because they need like 10 more cards that do the same thing.

    If I sound salty it's because I love this game, I love the Champs, I love the turn passing, I love the game flow...and infinite cycling destroys all of that.

    It gets to the point where leveling Champs as part of a "quest" doesn't matter only wincons matter and infinite card advantage.

    -2
  • BingoNoEyes's Avatar
    185 82 Posts Joined 05/07/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago

    Can you define cycling?

    0
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 535 741 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago

    I think nifty's idea of cycling is to generate card out of others, making sure you never run out of cards.

    In mtg it means to replace unneeded cards with other cards for a low manacost.

    1
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 535 741 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago

    I actually can't relate too well with your issues nifty that infinite value from bc is invalidating Jayce. I fact is jayce a great breaker for value battle because he allows big powerful spells like the Glorious Evolution to finally work, stopping the value battle on the spot. 

    Especially paired with hemi you can have your own value engine going and stop bandle city's gameplan.

    We shall see if aggro will keep Jayce decks uncompetetive or if there will be a version doing fine against aggro that then has great chance to be toptier.

    1
  • Nifty129's Avatar
    370 522 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago

    In a broader sense cycling had classically referred to any creature body that draws 1. But in Runeterra cycling is infinitely better because it's actually a cheap body and a tutor 1.

    Also that body is not under-stated 

    Now you could say it's not a tutor because there's hearthstone r and g but unfortunately the card pool is too small to make that true.

    Here's an example will you always hit equinox off a spacey sketches? No but you will hit it the second time you play most likely.

    Now add this principle to bandlewood what are the chances they hit the 5 mana sled puffball or the 6 mana scout. Very high, and this is after you've had to deal with 3 poppies, and his buffed board. That's the power of tutors, and that's why just add Bandlewood is practically a meme at this point.

    This is the meme take champ A add bandlewood tutors/cycling creatures, add poppy win games. Now you could argue it needs minimorph and stress test etc. But those are just tech choices, the infinite tutor pkg plus Poppy is so universal and so strong it can go with anything.

    Like you can literally play the AI and you'll be like derp de derp whatever and then you hit infinite cycling and it's like wow that's literally the worst card choices and it's still better then everything else.

    -2
  • Nifty129's Avatar
    370 522 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago

    New expansion has been out for 5 minuites and the optimal Jayce deck is already duplicate conchologist...want to know why because Champs don't matter, cards don't matter, turn order and plays don't matter...answers.dont matter...only cycling matters.

    -------

    I was practicly begging for a patch to tone down the cycling power in the game and we just got more of it...like how clueless can you get. Infinite card advantage with board presence in a card game is baaaaaaad

    -3
  • minuano28's Avatar
    Mountain 675 766 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 6 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    I actually can't relate too well with your issues nifty that infinite value from bc is invalidating Jayce. I fact is jayce a great breaker for value battle because he allows big powerful spells like the Glorious Evolution to finally work, stopping the value battle on the spot. 

    Especially paired with hemi you can have your own value engine going and stop bandle city's gameplan.

    We shall see if aggro will keep Jayce decks uncompetetive or if there will be a version doing fine against aggro that then has great chance to be toptier.

    Wouldn't Glorious Evolution be counter productive with Jayce? The card will discount your spells meaning that you won't get the double cast from Jayce level up?

    0
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 535 741 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 6 months, 1 week ago
    Quote From minuano28
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    I actually can't relate too well with your issues nifty that infinite value from bc is invalidating Jayce. I fact is jayce a great breaker for value battle because he allows big powerful spells like the Glorious Evolution to finally work, stopping the value battle on the spot. 

    Especially paired with hemi you can have your own value engine going and stop bandle city's gameplan.

    We shall see if aggro will keep Jayce decks uncompetetive or if there will be a version doing fine against aggro that then has great chance to be toptier.

    Wouldn't Glorious Evolution be counter productive with Jayce? The card will discount your spells meaning that you won't get the double cast from Jayce level up?

    If you have 0 mana 2/2 Evershade Stalkers with augment I don't think you would complain too much about not doublecasting Assembly Line anymore now would you?

    To put it short: 1 doublecasted Glorious Evolution should be enough to win a game

    0
  • Phaseshifter's Avatar
    130 71 Posts Joined 06/06/2020
    Posted 6 months, 1 week ago

    I must admit. I don't understand Glorious evolution. What do you do with it?

    0
  • Nifty129's Avatar
    370 522 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 6 months, 1 week ago

    Wait are you guys just meme players, to be talking about playing 2 glorious evolutions into infinite everglades stalkers like that's a real competitive thing?

    ....................

    Anyways based on my experimentation these are the 3 best Jayce decks in my experience.

    1.  Jayce Lux  Specializes in tempo, removal and big swings.

    2. Heimer tribal, specializes in infinite board control via cycling/board presence

    3. Karma Jayce, mega control. Specializes in infinite spell value.

    Meme decks

    1. Frosty Jayce you can double winters breath...aaaaaand that's kinda it

    2. Poppy Jayce runs the infinite cycling pkg I hate so much with Poppy....yuuuup

    3. Shadow Jayce an Asian player did well with this essentially ledros control

    4. Tf Jayce basically you use Harpoon for an easy fast speed level

    Overall - Jayce I believe is Riots attempt at designing a Poppy like control champion...he's kind of good with everything but has enough synergy and build around cost to make him far less obnoxious and "easy mode"

    -2
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 535 741 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 6 months, 1 week ago

    It reduces the cost of every card in your deck/of cards you create by 1, it gives them a tech tag, it gives them augment and turns every card into a created card.

    This means every card is 1 mana cheaper and every unit gets permanently  1 power for every card you play.

    That doesn't sound too strong but if you reduce the cost of every card by 2 you pretty much end up with a buch of free cards that then serve as a permanent attack buff.

    It's weird It's clunky but It's cool and fun to play so there is that.

     

    1
  • Nifty129's Avatar
    370 522 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 6 months, 1 week ago

    No I'm not saying I don't understand the line of play, and I've even seen it all of...once.

    Its just terrible.

    Like any deck that says I need to hard cast two 10 mana spells before I can win is bad.

    Like feel the rush is the closest to a semi competitive "meme" card because it is literally just 12 mana I win most of the time.

    You can run it as a cheeky 1 of in Sejuani midrange or as a 3 of in a hard ramp list.

    --------------

    But I have to say this whole conversation has made me realize how out of the realm of what people are actually playing, and how decks are actually built, and just like the universe maybe?

    -2
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar
    Soldier 535 741 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 6 months, 1 week ago

    The difference between what you are understanding of the strategy and what I am trying to get across is: no, I don't want to hardcast 2 10 mana spells that is indeed terrible of a gameplan.

    That's why Jayce is needed for this gameplan to work: if you doublecast the Glorious Evolution with lvl 2 Jayce you most likely win on your next atttack and that is not nearly as terrible as previous Glorious Evolution decks. Is it tier 1 broken Material?

    No but it's working in some games and I like it.

    And yes Jayce is a great improvement for this strategy because before you had to run ionia with Karma to doublecast it and you weren't able to do so until 10 mana which is just terrible.

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