The History Of Cycling Decks (LOR)

  • Nifty129's Avatar 380 570 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago

    Cycling has existed in many iterations in this game, and each one of them past vanilla has been problematic from a balance perspective

    1. Yoink

    Play a creature and steal a card from your opponents deck the original OP Cycling mechanic that was so strong midrange plunder was a tier 1 deck for longer then memory serves.

    2. Invoke

    Play an expensive creature to get a card, now we no longer need a pre-condition we just spend 1 mana more. People are generally okay with invoke, tempo is an easy thing to balance and while there have been OP Targon decks invoke has never needed adjustment directly.

    3. Darkness

    What if every creature gave you removal and was fairly costed...hmmm yes now we start to see that we no longer need to pay for tempo or pre-conditions

    4. Manifest

    What if you could play a creature that gave you answers to things your deck wasn't built for? Yep Mogwai had been the most vocal for the nerfing of this mechanic and it finally happened a bit this patch.

    5. Counters?

    There is no hard counter for card advantage except for combo decks. Lee Sin offering otk options isn't great he can be removed. Ezreal/Carina is a control card he can be out card advantaged in situations he should be favored.

    So finally we have mono shurima a midrange (landmark) based combo deck that is actually good and doesn't care about card advantage.

    Cycling for the first time ever since LOR has existed is now being hard countered...and people are pissed.

    Welcome to how the rest of us have felt as you yanked, invoked, and manifested to victory winning games you shouldn't, with nothing the other player could do.

    Have fun for the next month till the end of April and mono Shurima gets gutted again because people can't auto-cue and auto-win with pure card advantage anymore.

    -3
  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 605 652 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago

    I don't think people are nearly as upset as you think they are. Mono-Shurima can be explosive against basically any deck, if they get a good draw. So if that happens to a specific person, they might get upset, regardless of their deck. Also, when mono-Shurima wins, they force you to watch a mini-movie of level up animations, which is another thing that annoys people.

    In point of fact, before this patch, the thing most people WERE complaining about was Bandle City, due to the exact situation you're describing. No one is upset about "card advantage" decks being beaten by Mono-Shurima. I'd imagine they are quite happy about the disappearance of Bandle City Value decks.

    Sometimes, I feel like you invent controversy out of thin air.

    3
  • Nifty129's Avatar 380 570 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago

    Not really inventing anything.

    Yes anyone who understands how card games work is happy with the patch.

    But when Mogwai or Swim or any other streamer went on Twitter to complain about the over powered nature of manifest decks they got flamed straight to hell 

    And people actually like those YT personalities.

    So when I say there is a divide between those who understand card games and the general competitive player base I don't think I'm "inventing" anything so much as adressing a clear divide.

    -1
  • minuano28's Avatar Mountain 695 813 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago
    Quote From Nifty129

    Not really inventing anything.

    Yes anyone who understands how card games work is happy with the patch.

    But when Mogwai or Swim or any other streamer went on Twitter to complain about the over powered nature of manifest decks they got flamed straight to hell 

    And people actually like those YT personalities.

    So when I say there is a divide between those who understand card games and the general competitive player base I don't think I'm "inventing" anything so much as adressing a clear divide.

    You seem to think that people dislike mono Shurima because it counter Bandle City, that not true.

    First thing, mono Shurima does not counter Bandle City. With the exception of Darkness control, Bandle decks are just too fast for mono Shurima.

    Some players are annoyed with mono shurima because it's overplayed on the ladder, not because they like Bandle. It can be boring to face the same deck over and over regardless of it's power level.

    And I said it before Mogwai and Swim were not flamed for complaining about Bandle City, your just making shit up there. The majority of the community agree with their opinion, this so called "divide" only exist in your brain : 

    https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/sv38oz/megamogwais_bandle_city_rant/

    https://www.reddit.com/r/LegendsOfRuneterra/comments/swbn8c/megamogwais_bandle_city_rant_part_2/

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8Ii87Y26-A 

     

    0
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar Soldier 550 811 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago

    The funny thing about Nifty's argumentation to me is that he puts it like Lee Sin being counterable by removal to be a bad thing.

    There are only a handful of effective counters to Lee Sin he arguably has too little counterplay. Minimorph was literally desinged to deal with the likes of Lee Sin yet ofc Nifty argues lee not being protected enough to matter :^)

     

    By the way I have an idea how to nerf lee sin without killing him:

    Reduce his health by 1 and change his lvl 2 to: when I challenge a unit give me overwhelm and quick attack this round and Nexus strike: create a fleeting dragon's rage in hand, it costs 0 this round. 

    This way Lee sin has to actually beat the units that he is atttacking into and he needs multiple enemy units to deal devestating nexus damage.

    0
  • Nifty129's Avatar 380 570 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago

    Right so if everyone agrees mono shurima is good, and cycling decks are bad.

    What the hell are you complaining about 

    If anyone is trolling or inventing controversy its you guys.

    My posts are generally pretty well informed and accurate.

    Have a good work week.

    -2
  • minuano28's Avatar Mountain 695 813 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 4 months, 1 week ago
    Quote From Nifty129

    Right so if everyone agrees mono shurima is good, and cycling decks are bad.

    What the hell are you complaining about 

    If anyone is trolling or inventing controversy its you guys.

    My posts are generally pretty well informed and accurate.

    Have a good work week.

    Nobody is complaining about anything and your about as well informed and accurate as a flat-earther.

    1
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