Anyone else think Ionia has a little too much?

  • TriMay's Avatar 160 15 Posts Joined 01/15/2020
    Posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago

    Just a little salty after playing against it almost every game

    But I did a quick search in the collection manager including unowned cards.  The following is a few keywords, followed by a number of all existing cards that have it or interact with it, and a number of said cards existing in Ionia, and a few notable examples.  For most of these, Ionia has over half of the cards of a given keyword in their pool, and if not, most of the cards.


    Elusive: 21 exist with the word in it.  11 Ionia.  Examples:  Greenglade Duo, Shadow Assassin, , Kinkou Lifeblade, Yusari, The Empyrean

    Lifesteal: 7 total exist.  4 Ionia.  Herald of Spring, Emerald Awakener, Kinkou Lifeblade again, Spirit's Refuge

    Recall: 10 Exist, 8 Ionia (11 / 9 if you include Zed's champ spell).  Yasuo, Will of Ionia, Minah Swiftfoot.  2 Fast spells forced to target ally, but can be used to save units.  1 Other card that buffs for each recall or stun.  Only 2 using recall as a "cost"

    Stun: 10 Exist.  4 Ionia (the other 6 all in Noxus).  Yasuo, Fae Bladetwirler, Steel Tempest, Yone, Windchaser

    Barrier: 12 Exist (if Heimerdinger counts),  5 Ionia (Sedond to Damacia which has 6 but only if you count Fiora's Champ Spell).  Shen, Greenglade Caretaker, Spirit's Refuge again, Ki Guardian, Stand United

    Heal an / Heal your: 6 exist, 2 Ionia (tied with Freljord).  Health Potion, Ritual of Renewal

    Ephemeral:  Now the problem here is how many Ionia has.  The problem here is they're the only ones that can give it to the opponent.  Death Mark, Shadow Flare, Ren Shadowblade

    Ally in hand / Allies in hand (Hand buffs): 8 Exist, 5 Ionia. Inspiring Mentor, Ki Guardian, Jeweled Protector, Sown Seeds, Greenglade Elder

    And honorable mentions:  Deny, Twin Disciplines



    So do I have the right to be annoyed at this point?  Does anyone else share my feelings?  Anything that I missed?  Any opposite opinions?  Some other region that somehow has top spot or over half of 6 different annoying mechanics or mechanics other regions would love like... any... healing?

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  • OldManSanns's Avatar Explorer of Dragons 285 236 Posts Joined 08/05/2019
    Posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago

    I dunno man.  I will definitely agree that Ionia is over-represented in the current meta, but that doesn't mean it's too powerful.  Part of the reason why Ionia has so many gimmicks is because they don't have many heavy hitters.  For example you mention barrier: the only time I've seen barrier outside of Expedition is with Fiora.  And the only time I've seen stun used is the occasional Arachnoid Sentry or on Youtube when someone is trying to make Yasou work.  If it wasn't for elusives--which admittedly are overtuned right now--then the only real win condition Ionia has left in constructed is to combine with another more powerful region.

    I am curious to see what next week's patch brings.  If this community is anything like Hearthstone's, then the very act of having the developer lower the impact of any Ionia cards will create a placebo mentality where everyone feels like the changes are more serious than they actually were and therefore flock to new, different archetypes.

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  • DoubleSummon's Avatar E.V.I.L. Dragon 520 905 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago

    I mean I could start counting mechanics other regions have like that.. I think Ionia and SI will be nerfed but the different mechanics are not a problem. I suspect every region will gain 1~2 new mechanics per expansion so..

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  • BlueSpark's Avatar 120 104 Posts Joined 01/27/2020
    Posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago

    I also don't see the prevalence of a couple of different keywords in Ionia as a problem. Elusive might be an exception, because they're rather hard to deal with if you don't have elusive units, yourself (and Deny is sort of in a similar position). As for anything else, I'm with OldManSanns - they lack access to the kind of heavy hitters that other regions have.

    For instance, I don't think healing and Lifesteal are too problematic (although the fact that Lifesteal scales with attack buffs arguably is), so I don't mind that Ionia gets most of them. They don't have Overwhelm, Fearsome, Frostbite, direct-damage spells, self-sacrifice combos, or anything of the sort. It's not like they're robbing the other regions of their own identities.

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  • meisterz39's Avatar Anduin 280 256 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago

    There's definitely too much Ionia on the ladder, but a lot of their mechanics are easily diffused with silence effects in Demacia. So, I don't think their toolkit is massively problematic.

    I do, however, think that Shadow Isles has a bit too many "good in all archetypes" cards. Some examples:

    • Hapless Aristocrat: Good early game defense for control decks, good spider generation for aggro
    • Black Spear, Grasp of the Undying, and The Box: All great removal tools at fast speed for the early/mid game
    • Vengeance: Hard removal the can work for mid to late game removal in control or a curve-topper in aggro decks that want to clear your biggest blocker
    • Glimpse Beyond: Cheap card draw (in a game with relatively little card draw) that you can drop to active useful last breath effects in aggro (e.g. Cursed Keeper), or to get extra value from a chump block in a control deck
    • Rhasa the Sunderer and Commander Ledros as finishers for aggro or control decks that want something to apply some major, last-minute pressure on board (like dropping Leeroy Jenkins, but it's suitable in many archetypes).

    Some of these cards certainly shine more in control vs. aggro, but they have applications, which is why Shadow Isles is so much of the metagame right now. The region just seems way too overtuned.

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  • Bystekhilcar's Avatar Content Squad 230 301 Posts Joined 09/02/2019
    Posted 2 weeks, 2 days ago

    Keywords aren't an issue, necessarily. As noted by others, Elusive is something that needs watching, Deny is something that needs watching. None of the other things you list are even things to think about in terms of busted stuff, let alone worry about.

    I see you when you're sleeping; I'm gone before you wake

    I'm not as good as turn 4 Barnes; But I'm at least a Twilight Drake

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  • Apfelkomplott's Avatar 60 17 Posts Joined 02/04/2020
    Posted 2 weeks, 1 day ago

    Other regions need maybe 1 elusive unit, like Demacia has one. That would help a lot against pure elusive cheese decks.

     

    For regions in general, I think Shadow Isles is a bit overtuned and thus overrepresented right now. Good direct removal throughout all stages of the game, cheap and versatile draw, best finisher in the game (Ledros infinite value), best Champions in the game (Elise and Hecarim). Wraithcaller is also the best allegiance unit right now, leading to a lot of almost-pure Shadow Isles decks with some key cards from other regions mixed in.

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  • TriMay's Avatar 160 15 Posts Joined 01/15/2020
    Posted 2 weeks, 1 day ago

    To be clearer, my main issue isn't how many mechanics Ionia has, but that they dominate in the ability to say "no", most of their cards are "no put that back in your hand, no you can't block me, no you can't play that spell, no you can't attack this turn" (that last one is hilarious when combined with other regions who have the rest of stun, or frostbite)

    And while Ionia is saying no, your other region is free to do whatever it wants, not that Ionia is strong on its own

     

    The only thing that doesn't match "say no" is hand buffs, but that one has the potential to be strong from how many times they can recall their own units to do it again and again, or through Dawn and Dusk

    Actually that sounds like a funny meme, I'm gunna make that deck later

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  • FortyDust's Avatar 160 219 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week, 5 days ago

    Well, Freljord says a lot of "no" with Frostbite. P&Z and Shadow Isles say "no" by murdering your units. Shadow Isles also says "no" by un-murdering its own units. Ionia says "no" by buffing the unit you were trying to kill. Noxus says "no, you cannot block my damage."

    There are a million ways to say "no" in this game, and every region has plenty of them.

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