"Give an ally 'Cannot be damaged or killed'" - What card is this?

  • kaladin's Avatar 215 317 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 6 days, 5 hours ago

    I know I've seen it played in at least two of my games but I cannot find it anywhere, in my collection or on this site. 

    Runeterra: DEEP IS TRASH

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  • greenhatjynx78's Avatar 100 60 Posts Joined 01/26/2020
    Posted 6 days, 5 hours ago
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  • kaladin's Avatar 215 317 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 6 days, 5 hours ago
    Quote From greenhatjynx78

    Thank you!

     

    This card is pretty toxic.  I can't believe this was allowed to be a card.

    Runeterra: DEEP IS TRASH

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  • DoubleSummon's Avatar Servant of Illidan 765 1383 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 5 days, 11 hours ago
    Quote From kaladin
    Quote From greenhatjynx78

    Thank you!

     

    This card is pretty toxic.  I can't believe this was allowed to be a card.

    Thanksfully we won't need to wait 6 months for it to be nerfed like a certain Undertaker card

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  • Vincent3383's Avatar Lava Coil 50 24 Posts Joined 05/03/2020
    Posted 5 days, 10 hours ago

    I kinda think the card is slightly broken as there isn't many things in the game yet that can out right remove someone who is already enchanted with it. There are options like Recall, Deny, Riptide, and or out right Obliterate them, but only two factions do that stuff well. Bilgewater and Ionia.

    Bilgewater has two options, Riptide and Devourer of the Depths. But Devourer of the Depths can be countered himself by simply damaging him so he doesn't have enough health to obliterate his target.

    Ionia on the other hand is great at it. As Ionia has a butt ton of ways to recall them, stun lock them, or out right "Deny" the ability from being used.

    On a lesser note. A heavy frost centered Freljord deck can also shut it down but I don't know of any meta worthy frost decks that exist.

    "Love thy neighbor as thyself." - Mark 12:31

    "So I should want to put a bullet in their head? Got it."

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  • Greysil's Avatar 90 9 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 5 days, 8 hours ago
    Quote From Vincent3383

    I kinda think the card is slightly broken as there isn't many things in the game yet that can out right remove someone who is already enchanted with it. There are options like Recall, Deny, Riptide, and or out right Obliterate them, but only two factions do that stuff well. Bilgewater and Ionia.

    Bilgewater has two options, Riptide and Devourer of the Depths. But Devourer of the Depths can be countered himself by simply damaging him so he doesn't have enough health to obliterate his target.

    Ionia on the other hand is great at it. As Ionia has a butt ton of ways to recall them, stun lock them, or out right "Deny" the ability from being used.

    On a lesser note. A heavy frost centered Freljord deck can also shut it down but I don't know of any meta worthy frost decks that exist.

    First off the DENY is a completely wrong option since the ability is Burst.

    This effect is astonishingly bad, in some matchups you cant do shit about it. So its either you have demacia and silence, or like recall and ionia which is like 2 actual decks that have it.

    Riptide is also quite questional tech to remove it since you have to have nautilus on board. The same is with the fish and Devourer.

    So yeah if you play recall Yasuo deck or Nautilus Depth deck you can deal with it. Otherwise good luck son. If the guy manages to stuck this on some annoying minion you basically dead with no counterplay.

    UPD: Also to anyone saying burst effect for 8 mana is for the late game, I disagree. It cant be a late game effect, if you play it on turn 5, on the minion you stuck on the board previous turn.  You usually play some power heros on turn 5 or later even and BOOM. Deal with it the turn before it. So yeah, nice effect.

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  • kaladin's Avatar 215 317 Posts Joined 03/13/2019
    Posted 5 days, 2 hours ago

    Also does Obliterate even work?  Isn't that the same as dying?

    Runeterra: DEEP IS TRASH

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  • linkblade91's Avatar Global Moderator Draconically Dedicated 540 813 Posts Joined 02/09/2019
    Posted 5 days, 2 hours ago
    Quote From kaladin

    Also does Obliterate even work?  Isn't that the same as dying?

    Obliterate removes targets from the battlefield without them dying; they are just simply gone forever, like being exiled in Magic the Gathering (or "poofed" in Hearthstone from The Amazing Reno). It should work against Unyielding Spirit.

    If you have the time, you should totally check out our weekly Hearthstone card design competitions! :D

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  • Vincent3383's Avatar Lava Coil 50 24 Posts Joined 05/03/2020
    Posted 5 days, 2 hours ago
    Quote From Greysil
    Quote From Vincent3383

    I kinda think the card is slightly broken as there isn't many things in the game yet that can out right remove someone who is already enchanted with it. There are options like Recall, Deny, Riptide, and or out right Obliterate them, but only two factions do that stuff well. Bilgewater and Ionia.

    Bilgewater has two options, Riptide and Devourer of the Depths. But Devourer of the Depths can be countered himself by simply damaging him so he doesn't have enough health to obliterate his target.

    Ionia on the other hand is great at it. As Ionia has a butt ton of ways to recall them, stun lock them, or out right "Deny" the ability from being used.

    On a lesser note. A heavy frost centered Freljord deck can also shut it down but I don't know of any meta worthy frost decks that exist.

    First off the DENY is a completely wrong option since the ability is Burst.

    This effect is astonishingly bad, in some matchups you cant do shit about it. So its either you have demacia and silence, or like recall and ionia which is like 2 actual decks that have it.

    Riptide is also quite questional tech to remove it since you have to have nautilus on board. The same is with the fish and Devourer.

    So yeah if you play recall Yasuo deck or Nautilus Depth deck you can deal with it. Otherwise good luck son. If the guy manages to stuck this on some annoying minion you basically dead with no counterplay.

    UPD: Also to anyone saying burst effect for 8 mana is for the late game, I disagree. It cant be a late game effect, if you play it on turn 5, on the minion you stuck on the board previous turn.  You usually play some power heros on turn 5 or later even and BOOM. Deal with it the turn before it. So yeah, nice effect.

    Thanks for the correction. I forgot it was burst speed. It should really be fast speed not burst since its so stupid powerful. But not slow speed. That would be an over nerf. I feel like slow speed makes most spells unusable at times.

    "Love thy neighbor as thyself." - Mark 12:31

    "So I should want to put a bullet in their head? Got it."

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  • DoubleSummon's Avatar Servant of Illidan 765 1383 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 5 days, 1 hour ago
    Quote From Vincent3383
    Quote From Greysil
    Quote From Vincent3383

    I kinda think the card is slightly broken as there isn't many things in the game yet that can out right remove someone who is already enchanted with it. There are options like Recall, Deny, Riptide, and or out right Obliterate them, but only two factions do that stuff well. Bilgewater and Ionia.

    Bilgewater has two options, Riptide and Devourer of the Depths. But Devourer of the Depths can be countered himself by simply damaging him so he doesn't have enough health to obliterate his target.

    Ionia on the other hand is great at it. As Ionia has a butt ton of ways to recall them, stun lock them, or out right "Deny" the ability from being used.

    On a lesser note. A heavy frost centered Freljord deck can also shut it down but I don't know of any meta worthy frost decks that exist.

    First off the DENY is a completely wrong option since the ability is Burst.

    This effect is astonishingly bad, in some matchups you cant do shit about it. So its either you have demacia and silence, or like recall and ionia which is like 2 actual decks that have it.

    Riptide is also quite questional tech to remove it since you have to have nautilus on board. The same is with the fish and Devourer.

    So yeah if you play recall Yasuo deck or Nautilus Depth deck you can deal with it. Otherwise good luck son. If the guy manages to stuck this on some annoying minion you basically dead with no counterplay.

    UPD: Also to anyone saying burst effect for 8 mana is for the late game, I disagree. It cant be a late game effect, if you play it on turn 5, on the minion you stuck on the board previous turn.  You usually play some power heros on turn 5 or later even and BOOM. Deal with it the turn before it. So yeah, nice effect.

    Thanks for the correction. I forgot it was burst speed. It should really be fast speed not burst since its so stupid powerful. But not slow speed. That would be an over nerf. I feel like slow speed makes most spells unusable at times.

    I think it should cost 5 and be one round only. 

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  • Hellcopter's Avatar 125 132 Posts Joined 02/09/2020
    Posted 4 days, 23 hours ago
    Quote From Greysil

    UPD: Also to anyone saying burst effect for 8 mana is for the late game, I disagree. It cant be a late game effect, if you play it on turn 5, on the minion you stuck on the board previous turn.  You usually play some power heros on turn 5 or later even and BOOM. Deal with it the turn before it. So yeah, nice effect.

    It requires a big enough unit alive to be worth the effect, 3 spell mana stored on T4 and an T5 without playing anything to pull that off. When someone plays it on T5, i wonder what his opponent was doing all this time since he had to pass at least 3 turns out of 5:
    (1 turn)- to play a unit he can't trade; (1 turn)- to store mana; (1 turn)- to cast the spell.

    That being said, this card has an awkward design as it is too costly/situational for high level games so it hardly will see play there, but its too annoying/lacks counterplay for casual/slow games.

    Like i said in my previous post, i have no idea why they even printed this card outside of testing the concept.

    Hearthstone: Me vs Firebat -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NCE81owjo

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  • thazud's Avatar 70 16 Posts Joined 06/05/2019
    Posted 4 days, 18 hours ago

    I don't think the card is broken but in some matchups it can seem unfair. If they are to nerf the card they should make it fast instead of burst, so all factions has a chance to respond to it. 

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  • Crusader2010's Avatar 85 36 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 4 days, 16 hours ago

    It seems to me that runeterra is going the hearthstone route, bit by bit. It's like they can't come up with something balanced and always need to push certain OP things.

    I'm glad i didn't play much because i'd probably get mad for the wasted time. I'm also sad that no one is able to come up with some truly balanced game and realize that you can't ever please everyone. 

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  • GerritDeMan's Avatar 205 168 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 4 days, 14 hours ago
    Quote From Crusader2010

    It seems to me that runeterra is going the hearthstone route, bit by bit. It's like they can't come up with something balanced and always need to push certain OP things.

    I'm glad i didn't play much because i'd probably get mad for the wasted time. I'm also sad that no one is able to come up with some truly balanced game and realize that you can't ever please everyone. 

    I disagree, I think they (Riot) are just not afraid to try different things, whether they're going to be op or not.  Because they're willing to make balance changes every month this is also relatively safe for them to do. When releasing new cards you can't always play it safe because then there's the chance that very little of the new cards will be played, like what happened when TGT was released for Hearthstone.

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  • meisterz39's Avatar 365 461 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 days, 10 hours ago
    Quote From GerritDeMan
    Quote From Crusader2010

    It seems to me that runeterra is going the hearthstone route, bit by bit. It's like they can't come up with something balanced and always need to push certain OP things.

    I'm glad i didn't play much because i'd probably get mad for the wasted time. I'm also sad that no one is able to come up with some truly balanced game and realize that you can't ever please everyone. 

    I disagree, I think they (Riot) are just not afraid to try different things, whether they're going to be op or not.  Because they're willing to make balance changes every month this is also relatively safe for them to do. When releasing new cards you can't always play it safe because then there's the chance that very little of the new cards will be played, like what happened when TGT was released for Hearthstone.

    While I certainly don't agree with the Hearthstone shitposting from Crusader2010, I take issue with the idea that "[Riot's] willing to make balance changes every month." They haven't said they'll consider making a balance patch every month, they've said that they will make a balance patch every month. I think you can very easily argue that Riot's insistence on constantly rebalancing the game is a crutch. They know they can get away with worse balance up front because players can always say "well, just a wait a couple of weeks and they'll fix that OP thing."

    The result of that kind of constant buff/nerf cycle is a meta game that basically looks balanced. Every few weeks players will be developing new decks, new cards/regions will rise and fall in popularity, etc., but it will be artificial, and every cycle there will be a risk of some significantly OP deck dominating the meta game without any answer until it gets nerfed out of relevance. Maybe that's fine, but I think really it just means the long term play experience of the game is frustrating/unrewarding.

    I am not a League of Legends player, and prior to playing LoR I had assumed that the major complaints about balance in LoL were not entirely fair/amplified by generic internet outrage. But after playing a fair amount of LoR from the preview patches through open beta and up to today, I find myself really unimpressed with their balance team, and I think a lot of the things about LoR that make it novel in the CCG space (an ever-expanding set of regions, spell mana, etc.) will only make it harder to design/balance as the game grows.

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  • Vincent3383's Avatar Lava Coil 50 24 Posts Joined 05/03/2020
    Posted 4 days, 10 hours ago

    I feel like most of the time once they place the card on either Fiora or Radiant Guardian. Well that's it, you're done, game over. Which is dumb.

    "Love thy neighbor as thyself." - Mark 12:31

    "So I should want to put a bullet in their head? Got it."

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  • Crusader2010's Avatar 85 36 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 4 days, 7 hours ago

    @meisterz39 (because i can't put spoiler tags around a big quote, on mobile):

    Everyone has a different opinion on HS balance. I've played it from beta up until a few years ago. Why stop? Because the more cards were added, the worse the balance got, the randomness increased, the stupidity of some games became greater etc. Basically it was less and less fun for me, and still is.

     

    Coming back, i do agree with your point about LoR. It seems they simply want to shake the meta more often and give a fake impression of balance because of it.

     

    If they wanted to test stuff, why not make a PTR and invite a limited number of players under NDAs?! You can't say they don't have the money to support that. I'm not sure if HS does it (doesn't really seem so).

     

    Like everyone else, I have a dream about what balance means for a card game. Right now, the closest to that for me is Gwent.

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  • meisterz39's Avatar 365 461 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 days, 6 hours ago

    Yeah, for what it's worth, I probably shouldn't have said "shitposting" - it undercuts the reality that yes, people can and do feel differently about Hearthstone and its level of balance.

    But I think the idea of "the hearthstone route...[of always needing] to push certain OP things" implies a real intentional effort from Blizzard to push OP content rather than try to build a balanced game. I think the recent rebuild of the Priest core set (which was famously underpowered) shows a meaningful desire on Blizzard's part to develop a fun, balanced game. (You could argue that Demon Hunter proves the opposite is true, but I think the Demon Hunter class was colored by a need to get people excited about and engaging with the new content, and proving there's a way to build a new class that doesn't just chew into the existing design spaces for other classes.)

    Balance is always a moving target, and say what you will about Hearthstone, I think it's good that they aren't constantly putting their thumb on the scale the way Riot is, because I think it makes it really hard to know how close to real balance they ever are.

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