NERF TF/FIZZ!

  • Sklett's Avatar 10 1 Posts Joined 03/19/2021
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    NERF THIS TRASH ! 

    -6
  • Nifty129's Avatar 200 243 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    Being a bit more supportive of the sentiment that was being echoed by the community when Riot decided to not release a balance patch this week.

    Maybe we can talk about how to nerf it instead, maybe it's Tf but maybe it's burblefish.

    I hope they don't absolutely gut TF because he's really good in a wide variety of lists.

    0
  • minuano28's Avatar 415 236 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    Your frustration is understandable but this kind of post is not going to change anything. Just wait for the next balance patch.

    2
  • Nifty129's Avatar 200 243 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    Honestly I'm more looking forward to tweaks to new cards like Jarvan.

    The fact that he doesn't synergize with quick attack when he's in the same region as Lucian is a huge design oversight.

    And it makes him near impossible to level, like even if you frostbite something he doesn't trigger thats dumb.

    0
  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 550 475 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago
    Quote From Nifty129

    Being a bit more supportive of the sentiment that was being echoed by the community when Riot decided to not release a balance patch this week.

    Maybe we can talk about how to nerf it instead, maybe it's Tf but maybe it's burblefish.

    I hope they don't absolutely gut TF because he's really good in a wide variety of lists.

    This is exactly why I want to see him gutted. Lots of people claim it's not his fault ... and yet, somehow, tier 1 decks featuring TF just keep getting nerfed for some reason. What a coincidence that this champ who isn't a problem keeps being involved in nerfs! Over, and over, and over ....

    At some point you have to realize that he actually IS the problem. Let's be serious here - TF has NEVER been less than Tier 1 since he was released. Every time his deck gets nerfed, he finds a new tier 1 home. Every. Single. Time.

    Enough is enough. It's time to give him the Katarina treatment, and give some other champs a chance in the spotlight.

    6
  • Nifty129's Avatar 200 243 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 3 days ago

    Yeah possible, but again is it the level up requirement or the play effect you probably don't nerf both

    0
  • KingMicahhh's Avatar Banned 375 282 Posts Joined 11/30/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago
    Quote From Nifty129

    Yeah possible, but again is it the level up requirement or the play effect you probably don't nerf both

    Definitely the level up. Just make his level up harder because when tf levels up you usually win so how do you balance that? Make it hard for him to level up.

    Kenny's little poet. 😇

    0
  • minuano28's Avatar 415 236 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

    Making him harder to level up and nerfing either the red or blue card is only change that's gonna have any real impact, my only concern is that the balance team focus too much on TF/Fizz and let Aphelios and the veiled temple off the hook.

    1
  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 360 353 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago

    I would actually prefer nerfing his level up to:

    "the first time you play a card each turn pick eighter Gold Card Red Card or Blue Card and cast it".

    Tf lvl up would still be powerful but mean a lot less value per turn.

    4
  • FenrirWulf's Avatar Duskrider 700 183 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 2 days ago
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    I would actually prefer nerfing his level up to:

    "the first time you play a card each turn pick eighter Gold Card Red Card or Blue Card and cast it".

    Tf lvl up would still be powerful but mean a lot less value per turn.

    I agree. The fact is that TF suddenly shifts the game so heavily in your favor the moment you level him up. Sure it's hard to do, but he's a 4 Mana card, he's not supposed to be able to end the game on the spot just because you didn't draw a way to kill him. MF level up was game ending back when she had Overwhelm because it would add an extra 4 damage and they nerfed it so that she doesn't end the game immediately. So a nerf like this is actually plausible in my opinion. It doesn't entirely kill the card but still often changes the outcomes of games while also keeping his flavor intact.

    1
  • Neoguli's Avatar Duskrider 685 300 Posts Joined 06/25/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

    TF may be very strong, but I'm more on the side of the argument that other cards just make him look too busted. Sufice to say that he may need some nerfs himself, but in earlier Tier 1 decks he was in, he wasn''t necessarily used for level up, and that was fine. TF/Fizz just took TF to too high heights. I'd say nerf TF's signature spell - Pick a Card and Wiggly Burblefish, and also make Boxtopus take 3 damage when summoned (Riot themselves did not do that initially to let stuff like Aphelios/TF have a field day iirc).

    With these nerfs, I'd say TF will be in a better place, being present in a fewer decks like Go Hard or TF Swain, and both do not rely on his level up to win. If you need more nerfs, remove Quick Attack from him outright and make his level up be a 4/2 so that removal like Mystic Shot or Avalanche can kill him at all stages of the game.

    Hearthcards deck creating enthusiast. Also previously known on Hearthpwn as Cooler39140 and Huoyan.

    0
  • FenrirWulf's Avatar Duskrider 700 183 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

    I'm all down for making Pick a Card cost 4 or Wiggly Burblefish being a 2/1 or Boxtopus becoming a 3/3, but just because other cards are better nerf targets than TF himself shouldn't entirely discount the fact that TF himself is already insane. Just nerfing the proponents that make TF/Fizz OP is good and all but it doesn't mean that another TF deck won't appear and showcase the same level of strengths. We saw this with Go Hard and we saw this again with TF/Fizz. EZ/TF, TF Swain, TF/Aphelios all use TF mainly because he's really efficient even when not leveled up because he always comes out on top in terms of value because you'll always be wasting a card about 95% of the time. Making him weaker on level up will make it so that people aren't as pressured to kill TF to make sure he doesn't level up. Instead of being a card that is flexible and good when played and also puts a countdown to end the game within 1-3 turns, he just becomes a card that is flexible and good when played.

    I would love to be wrong about TF nerf becoming necessary because I really like TF decks in general. (Yes, even TF/Fizz.) That said, the fact that we've been seeing a pattern about TF recurring in tier 1 decks despite using different sets of cards should speak volumes of how good he is.

    Also removing Quick Attack and making him a 4/2 is literally the same treatment Aphelios got. He was never attacking and now you're just making sure he never will. So I don't think changing TF's stats will do much.

    3
  • Forgottenslayer's Avatar 115 43 Posts Joined 07/19/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 1 day ago

    Here in silver I have maybe seen this deck like once. I’ve read numerous things about this being basically straight up broken. I guess I’ll just do expeditions once I reach gold. Instead of playing the same deck over and over and over again.

    Although even in silver if I see TF I murder him,  he is simply to dangerous to let live. And Peoples ability to level him in one to two turns means you kill him quick or lose. I can’t think of a champion i find more problematic. Before Sol’s level up became a bit harder I found him problematic but after the adjustment I think he is fair. I use him but I rarely see him. 

    0
  • Forgottenslayer's Avatar 115 43 Posts Joined 07/19/2020
    Posted 6 days, 18 hours ago

    Well I’m in gold now, and I just gotta say that one extra card to level him up really made the difference. ( extreme sarcasm).  The Nerf to wiggly at least slows the steamrolling down but damn he is just so efficient when I have the stuff that should kill him he blocks it and then manages to level himself in the next turn. I silenced him 3 times. This card still needs an adjustment. 

    Anyone able to think of a more valuable champ

    0
  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 550 475 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 6 days, 16 hours ago
    Quote From Forgottenslayer

    Well I’m in gold now, and I just gotta say that one extra card to level him up really made the difference. ( extreme sarcasm).  The Nerf to wiggly at least slows the steamrolling down but damn he is just so efficient when I have the stuff that should kill him he blocks it and then manages to level himself in the next turn. I silenced him 3 times. This card still needs an adjustment. 

    Anyone able to think of a more valuable champ

    Once he levels, yes, he's very strong. But the TF/Fizz deck got hit with three separate nerfs ... it should be very beatable now. I haven't had any issues with it since the patch.

    I even faced one in my final gauntlet game, and absolutely destroyed him twice, once with each of my decks, for the easiest 2-0 match I've ever had.

    1
  • minuano28's Avatar 415 236 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 6 days, 8 hours ago

    It still a good deck but it's no longer an unfair one. As for more valuable champ I would say Zoe, she is present in two meta decks right now, Zoe/Lee Sin and Zoe/Aurelion Sol.

    0
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