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Targon's new mechanic Spellshield and Hush seem very problematic

  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar 80 67 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    As stated in the caption this treat is about (permanent) Spellshield and Hush not targon in general.

    Lets start with spellshield. 

    Why is spellshield in my oppinion a problem while barrier is perfectly fine?

    1. It is permanent

    2. there is not a single deck that can afford trading 2 spells for 1 unit (and keep in mind that most LoR spells arent even leathal for units)

    3. it protects from global spell effects like ruination 

    4. spellshield units are hardly more expansive than non spellshield units

     

    Meanwhile hush is devestating for:

    most of the champions

    the majority of elusive decks

    the majority of buff decks

    for frostbite

    and in general synergy driven decks

     

    Tell me guys: who enjoys this massive swing from an interactive synergy driven game to a game that is just about denying the opponent the opportunity to play the game?

    Edit: i changed the title of this article to make it more clear what it is about

    -1
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 300 479 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    I don’t find Spellshield much of an issue, since it’s mostly just like a deny attached to a unit. It also helps units like Aurelian Sol not just die to a vengeance the turn it’s played. Fused Firebrand seems to me to be the only Spellshield unit that is a bit overstatted for its keyword. The main part where I see Spellshield possibly being a problem is when it’s granted to units that don’t naturally have it, through cards like Giddy Sparkeologist, which can be changed to one turn if it’s an issue.

    3
  • Nifty129's Avatar 120 152 Posts Joined 05/29/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    I think another silence card is great, and very important to punish buff stacking strategies such as Fizz elusives.

    Then spellshield offers you a way to protect your units from spells and are better buff targets overall but don't get to be elusive.

    Are either of these things game breaking yet, no idea, nobody is going to have all the cards yet even if they are paying for 3 legendaries a week out of wallet.

    So I would probably wait a solid month before saying op op.

    3
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 300 479 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    I do agree that Hush could be a problem and oppress many decks, but I think we have to wait a few days to see if it’s really a problem. If Hush ends up mostly unplayable like Purify, then it won’t need a change.

    2
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 300 479 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    Overall, it’s just too early to know if these potentially oppressive keywords will negatively impact the game. In interactive keywords (such as elusive) aren’t always inherently bad for the game, and if they are balanced properly they can create an interesting and diverse meta.

    3
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 560 689 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    We're what, 4 hours in?

    Come back in a week, at the very least, before throwing ridiculous terms such as 'meta breaking' around so easily.

    5
  • Hellcopter's Avatar 145 253 Posts Joined 02/09/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    All decks on ladder right now are sub-optimal... to the point games are so soft i can safely get away griding with a Purrsuit of Perfection deck:



    Even if we find those 2 cards being broken within a week, there isn't yet an optimal opressive deck to fully abuse them.

    Hearthstone: Me vs Firebat -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09NCE81owjo

    0
  • CursedParrot's Avatar 300 479 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    @Hellcopter

    Why aren’t you running the Invoke cards in your pursuit deck? All the different Celestials help fulfill the pursuit requirement quicker.

    0
  • Tuscarora87's Avatar 135 117 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    I'll be playing only Labs for several days.

    It's possible op can be right about something, but it's still very early. This meta may need much more time than usual to adjust and settle, because the impact of several keywords and how they all correlate between each other seem more complex than we thought / were predicting. The meta will change drastically, that's for sure.

    Personally, I was aware of 'Spellburst' possibly forcing us to waste 2 answers for 1 and that stats maybe are not penalized enough. I lost 2-3 games due to something absurd like 'sp' on huge elusive minions (didn't have a single way to deal with it, let alone two, lol), but as said, let's wait to see will and how the meta will be able to respond. Maybe, we'll need to react in much different ways than before and that the meta will become even more midrange. Regarding The Ruination... f*** The Ruination. Anyway, I really hope they knew what they were doing and that the game will not need to go through overhaul period to get rid of uninteractive stuff.

    Today I played with Trundle and Leona decks. There were several issues, mentioned above, but most of the games were a blast, very enjoyable.

    It seems Riot is going more towards Hearthstone. More rng, because a lot of people get bored of "always the same games". So we got these invoke Celestial cards which remind us of Galakrond Priest. It's extremely fun to play as, but extremely unfun to play against. Idk, how it will do for LoR, but not playing around random garbage is a particular reason why I sometimes play LoR and move from HS. Again, Celestials are very fun. My opinion is that they should make them more awkward to get and invoke range should be more narrow. Another problem is that most Celestial cards are 'hate' cards which are always good for disruption of your opponent. 'No proactive play, just disruptions...' leads to less skilled games. But, it seems the Devs decided to go back to the HS way to make the game more exciting generally. Celestials are not some small amount of rng, but on a par with the best of HS rng.

    Some very pleasant games were with Leona. At first, i though we got another problem - snowballing. Then I realized there are a lot of trade-offs and difficulties for doing that. And that's fine.

    0
  • meisterz39's Avatar 420 644 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    My gut feeling is that there are a lot of problematic mechanics in this set, but I have to agree with iWatchUSleep - the expansion hasn't even been out for a day, so it's hard to reasonably argue something is metabreaking.

    1
  • Forgottenslayer's Avatar 50 17 Posts Joined 07/19/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 5 days ago

    Played 4 games I won’t be playing more until Nerfs roll. Spell shield should be a one turn thing right now it’s just to powerful unless they add more low cost AoE spells to pop it. Also seems like normal Riot, drop the newest thing overpowered and hope people will spend real money on it I don’t know why I expected different I’ve been a league player for years.Damnit riot I spent money on this game during spirit blossom because I WANTED to I felt you earned my money this ...... this just makes me feel cheated. 

    Seriously do they even play test? 
    some things have felt strong even overpowered but I felt there was at least something I could do I don’t feel like that now

    -2
  • Tuscarora87's Avatar 135 117 Posts Joined 06/02/2019
    Posted 3 weeks, 4 days ago

    I'm already back to Hearthstone.

    Celestials ruined the game completely. Yoink cards were the first sellout, but this now is a complete irreparable nonsense. 30 invoke cards with fine stats let you generate... not generate, but discover 30 completely absurd under-costed cards (sometimes 0 mana) which are impossible to play around. You'll not even find this in HS. The maximum of chaos and lottery; exactly the opposite of how they advertised the game a year ago.

     

    1
  • Vincent3383's Avatar Lava Coil 85 87 Posts Joined 05/03/2020
    Posted 3 weeks, 4 days ago

    I think spell shield and barrier need tweaks to be like they are supposed to feel. Like sister spells. So spell shield is fine how it works now but should only last one round like barrier does. Then barrier should only block physical damage from units but does nothing against spell effects or spell damage.

    Then you would have to decide if you want defense against spells or physical damage. Since building for both will kinda brick the deck.

    As for Hush I think they just need to make it either just one use like silence or increase its cost by 1 mana. So its a bit more awkward to pull off multiple silences.

    "Love thy neighbor as thyself." - Mark 12:31

    "So I should want to put a bullet in their head? Got it."

    0
  • nrutasder's Avatar 10 1 Posts Joined 09/13/2020
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    yeah im about to quit playing after seeing this one, 30 cards invoked and gaining and more popping out and still 25 cards on the deck, k bye

    -2
  • Phaseshifter's Avatar 80 53 Posts Joined 06/06/2020
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    I think they should have spell shield last until the beginning of your next turn. It's not realistic to have to use 2 spells for each threat that has it. And you have to pray that your 2nd spell doesn't get stopped.

    -1
  • minuano28's Avatar 55 13 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 1 week, 1 day ago

    Spell shield doesn't seem to be that powerful, in my experience playing ranked I haven't faced any opponent that use Bastion, Shroud of Darkness or any card that give your units spell shield; I do agree however that certain cards like Fused Firebrand are a bit too strong, a 5/5 with fury is already hard to kill and doesn't need any extra protection.

    0
  • FortyDust's Avatar 230 457 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week ago

    Neither SpellShield nor Hush appear in any of the top-tier decks right now, so it's pretty obvious that these effects are not a problem. Targon as a region is barely represented in the competitive meta right now, apart from Trundle-ASol.

    In fact, these effects are absolutely necessary if you want Targon decks to have any chance at all against the heavy hitters of the previous set.

    -2
  • minuano28's Avatar 55 13 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 1 week ago
    Quote From FortyDust

    Neither SpellShield nor Hush appear in any of the top-tier decks right now, so it's pretty obvious that these effects are not a problem. Targon as a region is barely represented in the competitive meta right now, apart from Trundle-ASol.

    In fact, these effects are absolutely necessary if you want Targon decks to have any chance at all against the heavy hitters of the previous set.

    I have to disagree on Hush, sure it doesn't appear on any top-tier deck but that's mostly because there isn't any top tier Targon deck at moment, which pretty normal since we still don't have all the cards for this expansion yet.

    Most Targon decks that I encounter in ranked do run the card and she pretty much the reason why I stopped using decks like  The Rekindler/Anivia or Ezreal/Karma, spending 10 rounds setting up your board and leveling up your champions, only for  your opponent to deny you your win condition with one 3 mana card that you can't respond to due to it's burst speed, is not healthy card design not to mention salt inducing.

    Anyway this is just my opinion on the matter fell free to disagree.

    1
  • Forgottenslayer's Avatar 50 17 Posts Joined 07/19/2020
    Posted 1 week ago

    I think a lot of the older decks that are aggro heavy don’t have a problem with Targon but if you are slow deck or midrange Targon is kind of a huge problem their ability to eat almost all the damage you throw at them while gaining cards just allows them to out resource you unless you are aggro is just ridiculous. Maybe what’s needed is the bigger the aggro damage be reduced   a bit coupled with a reduction to Targon’s healing however this might make midrange decks overly powerful. 

    I consider my deck midrange and I fear Targon and Yasou.

    0
  • FortyDust's Avatar 230 457 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 1 week ago
    Quote From minuano28
    Quote From FortyDust

    Neither SpellShield nor Hush appear in any of the top-tier decks right now, so it's pretty obvious that these effects are not a problem. Targon as a region is barely represented in the competitive meta right now, apart from Trundle-ASol.

    In fact, these effects are absolutely necessary if you want Targon decks to have any chance at all against the heavy hitters of the previous set.

    I have to disagree on Hush, sure it doesn't appear on any top-tier deck but that's mostly because there isn't any top tier Targon deck at moment, which pretty normal since we still don't have all the cards for this expansion yet.

    Most Targon decks that I encounter in ranked do run the card and she pretty much the reason why I stopped using decks like  The Rekindler/Anivia or Ezreal/Karma, spending 10 rounds setting up your board and leveling up your champions, only for  your opponent to deny you your win condition with one 3 mana card that you can't respond to due to it's burst speed, is not healthy card design not to mention salt inducing.

    Anyway this is just my opinion on the matter fell free to disagree.

    So basically, your argument is "Hush is unhealthy because it's an indirect nerf to these archetypes that many people considered unhealthy."

    The decks you mentioned were polarizing, uninteractive, and unfun to play against before Hush came along, so I don't think you'll find much sympathy on that front. In fact, Ezreal was on the watchlist for a possible nerf, and Karma was on a previous watchlist. If Hush keeps them in check, they won't have to be nerfed, so maybe you should be grateful Hush exists.

    -1
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