Can we talk about downvoting?

  • og0's Avatar 1240 872 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 2 months, 3 weeks ago

    Yes I agree voting on decks is different than voting on comments.

    I usually find myself upvoting dapperdog because I almost agree with what you said and the way you expressed it.

    There do seem to be waves of downvoting mass comments in a news item - often without much obvious reasoning behind them.  Perhaps that's just the way it seems and not reflected in the database behind the site.

    The system is good and I simply try not to take it personally.  Automated measures to detect and deter abuse in the future sounds good.

    All generalizations are false.

    3
  • Alfi's Avatar Devoted Academic 1330 810 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Maurice
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From Maurice
    Quote From DoubleSummon

    also don't get offended when you get downvoted specially when you said something you know might be unpopular

    For example when you express the opinion that a control deck should be nerfed, because all smart players know that only aggro decks have to be nerfed. Always. ^^

    It's easier to win against a deck that wins after 20 turns than one that wins after 4 maybe that's why

    Name one deck in the current meta which (regulary) wins after 4 turns, please.

    Pre-nerf DH aggro

    -=alfi=-

    0
  • Maurice's Avatar Eldritch Horror 520 158 Posts Joined 07/12/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From Maurice
    Quote From clawz161
    Quote From Maurice
    Quote From DoubleSummon

    also don't get offended when you get downvoted specially when you said something you know might be unpopular

    For example when you express the opinion that a control deck should be nerfed, because all smart players know that only aggro decks have to be nerfed. Always. ^^

    It's easier to win against a deck that wins after 20 turns than one that wins after 4 maybe that's why

    Name one deck in the current meta which (regulary) wins after 4 turns, please.

    token druid totem shaman demon hunte

    Demon Hunter on turn 4? Never seen before. And yes the other two decks can kill you with a perfect draw, when the enemy does nothing for 3 turns. But my question was: "Name one deck in the current meta which (regulary) wins after 4 turns". I played Aggro Druid more than once to get Legend and I can tell you that you not regulary kill your opponent in 4 turns with this deck. 5, 6, 7 turns sure thats the norm - but in 4 turns is an exception and not the rule.

    And Totem Shaman is so weak at the moment, on turn 4 is often the time they surrender, because I kept their board constantly low so there is no "turn 4 wombo combo" with the axe and no real way to come back for them on the board.

     

    EDIT: About the real topic: Maybe it could make sense that there is not in every part of this site and up- and downvote feature. As several users stated this feature can be useful to identify troll comments in the news section faster. But in some parts of the site I think this feature is "kind of useless", because it just shows how popular an opinion is, which says little to nothing about the quality of the rated post.

    I see you!

    0
  • Fluxflashor's Avatar Administrator 1640 1887 Posts Joined 10/19/2018
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    There is zero chance we'll ever let anyone see who is upvoting and downvoting content. In my experience, it just leads to harassment when people go after those that downvoted them. It creates a toxic atmosphere, especially when you downvote someone trolling and that troll now knows who "got their jimmies rustled" so they can go after them. Preventing that scenario from even happening is A+ in my book.

    Upvoting yourself is an odd one, I will agree. The reason behind it though, which I know I've mentioned in the past somewhere but since we have a fresh thread on it let me repeat it, is because it gives us more flexibility. If you go through the deck database, not many people upvote their own decks. I'm willing to wager if a person doesn't upvote their own deck initially, there is a higher chance it isn't a deck worth looking at. Maybe someone is using the site to catalog decks they like. It's sort of a power-user feature so people that know it exists and are writing good deck content can make use of it to get themselves higher in the initial rankings.

    Now, upvoting your own comments just comes from the silliness that is us using the same voting system for everything on the site. It might be a bit strange, but honestly, we'd just be starting everyone at +1 anyway without it so its another opportunity for people to signal boost themselves if they think they wrote something worth seeing.

    Ultimately though, the points don't matter much and its just something fun. It's super easy feedback to give since it is low effort and if people really need to upvote themselves, I'm okay with it =D

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    4
  • Pezman's Avatar Unwrapped 1450 1197 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Some great dialogue here, and it's good to know other folks are seeing the same thing as me.

    Several people (including Flux) mentioned the importance of having downvotes, and I agree. I want to be able to downvote offensive or trollish comments.

    I like the distinction between posts and decks: maybe you shouldn't be able to downvote a deck without leaving a comment. However, I don't think you should always have to comment in order to vote (up or down) if it's a forum post. I'm glad the mods have the ability to track that stuff to see if some loser is just going around downvoting everything.

    What it comes down to, as some people noted, is the votes don't matter much. It's stupid to get offended if people downvote your comments, and some upvotes here and there are just a tiny bit of positive reinforcement (I upvoted everyone who has participated in this dialogue). When it comes to decks though, it's different. When I post a deck that I want people to look at and comment on, the downvotes hurt my chances of being noticed (correct me if I got that wrong).

    1
  • Brandon's Avatar Old God Fanatic 640 784 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Personally i only downvote when someone is REALLY trolling hard or acting very toxic. And during the card reveal discussion I've seen my comments and those of many other downvoted as well (With mostly just 1 vote), My guess is that me and most others didn't up-vote their own comment and just a single person/troll downvoted every comment in those threats. 

    I have also experienced some cases where me and someone else were having a civil discussion about Sir Finley of the sandBADCARDNAMEs viability, but then "suddenly" most of the decks i posted at the time got disliked. It's unfortunate but these kinda things just happen sometimes.

    Personally i kinda ignore up- and down votes most of the time. There are plenty of times i got downvoted and luckely most of the time people tell my why they disliked my comment. If those people are right and are correcting me, i thank them for it and upvote their comment. The only time i care a super tiny amount about downvotes is when my brand new decks are downvoted without people telling me why they did it. (mainly because I always ask for suggestions for improving the deck) Luckely this community for the most part is very civil and it is a very nice place, and i'm really happy to be part of it :)

    2
  • og0's Avatar 1240 872 Posts Joined 03/31/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Brandon

    Luckely this community for the most part is very civil and it is a very nice place, and i'm really happy to be part of it :)

    -1 !!!!!  You mispelt luckily you **$#**'!

    Not really j/k :P  +1

    All generalizations are false.

    1
  • sinti's Avatar Global Moderator Mankrik 1810 2173 Posts Joined 10/20/2018
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From clawz161

    I think this would be solved if you could click on the number and see who upvoted or downvoted your post. When i upvote myself in a thread i usually try to do it only once at the first time, because people are more likely to read my WALL OF TEXT if it looks like someone else has read it and agreed with my point. After that i don't really care. Fake internet points don't really matter. I upvote my own decks if i make descriptions and think people should see them and leave my ones i am testing or don't care about to die at 0 or below. But even then it's better to put a comment on them saying "Hope you like it" or something like that because they'll appear on the forum section(or at least they used to) on the front page.

    It could be used in some cases to harass the users by the person who was the target of the downvote. Also it could create a feeling to "trade upvotes", or "being mentally pressured into upvoting a comment for the same person who upvoted you so they dont take offense", we've had that before. There are reasons both to display and not display it.

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    1
  • OmarComing's Avatar Enjoys Cake 755 439 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Fluxflashor

    that troll now knows who "got their jimmies rustled"

    All I know is, I’m definitely going to start using this Fluxism in everyday conversation. Let’s rustle some jimmies!

    1
  • Sykomyke's Avatar Explorer of Dragons 420 330 Posts Joined 05/30/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Fluxflashor

    There is zero chance we'll ever let anyone see who is upvoting and downvoting content. In my experience, it just leads to harassment when people go after those that downvoted them. It creates a toxic atmosphere, especially when you downvote someone trolling and that troll now knows who "got their jimmies rustled" so they can go after them. Preventing that scenario from even happening is A+ in my book.

    Upvoting yourself is an odd one, I will agree. The reason behind it though, which I know I've mentioned in the past somewhere but since we have a fresh thread on it let me repeat it, is because it gives us more flexibility. If you go through the deck database, not many people upvote their own decks. I'm willing to wager if a person doesn't upvote their own deck initially, there is a higher chance it isn't a deck worth looking at. Maybe someone is using the site to catalog decks they like. It's sort of a power-user feature so people that know it exists and are writing good deck content can make use of it to get themselves higher in the initial rankings.

    Now, upvoting your own comments just comes from the silliness that is us using the same voting system for everything on the site. It might be a bit strange, but honestly, we'd just be starting everyone at +1 anyway without it so its another opportunity for people to signal boost themselves if they think they wrote something worth seeing.

    Ultimately though, the points don't matter much and its just something fun. It's super easy feedback to give since it is low effort and if people really need to upvote themselves, I'm okay with it =D

    I mean is there a possible realm where we move away from the current internet meta of "liking/upvoting/reacting" to everything?  Can we possibly go back to a "good ole days" era where there were no likes/upvotes on comments.  People make comments, and people respond.  If people don't like the comment, they can reply and say "you are wrong and here's why".  If people troll, we just use the report button to report the people who troll.  

    The problem inherent with "liking/voting/etc" systems is that it panders to , frankly speaking, the Facebook type of crowd that can't be bothered to respond to a picture of a family member, so they just like it instead.

    Maybe if the downvoting is the problem, we just get rid of "liking or disliking" comments altogether.  After all, comments are opinions:  sometimes they are wrong, sometimes they are right, but they are opinions.  And people are allowed to make their opinions heard if they so wish, correct?  As someone mentioned earlier, there was a problem with someone or some people mass downvoting news thread comments.  And they most likely didn't contribute to the thread themselves.  If we removed the ability to like/dislike a comment, wouldn't that solve the issue? It would force the people who don't want to contribute, and instead just want to downvote people they disagree with to actually formulate an opposing opinion and write it down...

    And if the mass downvoters/trolls/whatever they are get pushed away by a new environment that doesn't have like/dislike buttons, then that's better overall for the community anyhow isn't it?

    Just a thought.

    7
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 775 695 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From sinti
    Quote From clawz161

    I think this would be solved if you could click on the number and see who upvoted or downvoted your post. When i upvote myself in a thread i usually try to do it only once at the first time, because people are more likely to read my WALL OF TEXT if it looks like someone else has read it and agreed with my point. After that i don't really care. Fake internet points don't really matter. I upvote my own decks if i make descriptions and think people should see them and leave my ones i am testing or don't care about to die at 0 or below. But even then it's better to put a comment on them saying "Hope you like it" or something like that because they'll appear on the forum section(or at least they used to) on the front page.

    It could be used in some cases to harass the users by the person who was the target of the downvote. Also it could create a feeling to "trade upvotes", or "being mentally pressured into upvoting a comment for the same person who upvoted you so they dont take offense", we've had that before. There are reasons both to display and not display it.

    I would agree if upvoted mattered, which they don't. I have been the subject of many, MANY downvote mobs even when i was making obvious jokes(i made a joke about an otk using 2 cards from 2 different classes, i proceeded to be downvoted into oblivion because people didn't understand that the fact it was impossible to generate both cards was the joke.) and it doesn't matter. It did not discourage me from stating my opinion on the subjects i was downvoted in. I still say aggro needs to be toned down and control doesn't need to be deleted. And whether the system is implemented or not where people know who EXACTLY downvoted you. The person being downvoted knows who it is most of the time. There are about 3 people i see regularly on this site that downvote me no matter what i say. And unlike someone above i don't report them for doing so i just think they're pathetic.

    Keeping track of something: Zyella, meisterz39, iWatchUSleep, DoubleSummon, Khaostheory1980, lMarcusl, RavenSunHS, Hydrafrog

    0
  • guivre's Avatar 130 12 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Pezman

    Example #1: I posted a deck a few weeks ago, and upvoted myself. Someone else came along and downvoted it. No comment or anything. What's the point? If you don't like the deck, offer some constructive criticism. Why was it worth someone's time to just randomly downvote a deck?

    In general, when voting on forums was first introduced it was to prevent spammy posts. Would you rather have a downvote or the village idiot going around saying THIS SUCKS or a posting a poop emoji on a deck. I'd rather have the downvote.

    That's not to cover sincere voting yea or nay on a deck and why someone may feel it's important to contribute or not. 

    1
  • Fluxflashor's Avatar Administrator 1640 1887 Posts Joined 10/19/2018
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Sykomyke
    Quote From Fluxflashor

    There is zero chance we'll ever let anyone see who is upvoting and downvoting content. In my experience, it just leads to harassment when people go after those that downvoted them. It creates a toxic atmosphere, especially when you downvote someone trolling and that troll now knows who "got their jimmies rustled" so they can go after them. Preventing that scenario from even happening is A+ in my book.

    Upvoting yourself is an odd one, I will agree. The reason behind it though, which I know I've mentioned in the past somewhere but since we have a fresh thread on it let me repeat it, is because it gives us more flexibility. If you go through the deck database, not many people upvote their own decks. I'm willing to wager if a person doesn't upvote their own deck initially, there is a higher chance it isn't a deck worth looking at. Maybe someone is using the site to catalog decks they like. It's sort of a power-user feature so people that know it exists and are writing good deck content can make use of it to get themselves higher in the initial rankings.

    Now, upvoting your own comments just comes from the silliness that is us using the same voting system for everything on the site. It might be a bit strange, but honestly, we'd just be starting everyone at +1 anyway without it so its another opportunity for people to signal boost themselves if they think they wrote something worth seeing.

    Ultimately though, the points don't matter much and its just something fun. It's super easy feedback to give since it is low effort and if people really need to upvote themselves, I'm okay with it =D

    I mean is there a possible realm where we move away from the current internet meta of "liking/upvoting/reacting" to everything?  Can we possibly go back to a "good ole days" era where there were no likes/upvotes on comments.  People make comments, and people respond.  If people don't like the comment, they can reply and say "you are wrong and here's why".  If people troll, we just use the report button to report the people who troll.  

    The problem inherent with "liking/voting/etc" systems is that it panders to , frankly speaking, the Facebook type of crowd that can't be bothered to respond to a picture of a family member, so they just like it instead.

    Maybe if the downvoting is the problem, we just get rid of "liking or disliking" comments altogether.  After all, comments are opinions:  sometimes they are wrong, sometimes they are right, but they are opinions.  And people are allowed to make their opinions heard if they so wish, correct?  As someone mentioned earlier, there was a problem with someone or some people mass downvoting news thread comments.  And they most likely didn't contribute to the thread themselves.  If we removed the ability to like/dislike a comment, wouldn't that solve the issue? It would force the people who don't want to contribute, and instead just want to downvote people they disagree with to actually formulate an opposing opinion and write it down...

    And if the mass downvoters/trolls/whatever they are get pushed away by a new environment that doesn't have like/dislike buttons, then that's better overall for the community anyhow isn't it?

    Just a thought.

    I don't disagree! I miss the old school parts of the net :D

    With that said, the voting is so much better to engage more members of the community and therefore keeping more people around. Sometimes just having conversations isn't enough and doesn't feel as rewarding. Look at achievements on the site - they don't really matter much but people love to complete them and it creates more attachment since you get to work towards something.

    Gamification is a big deal online now. Keeping people around and building healthy communities with it is so important.

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    2
  • clawz161's Avatar The Undying 775 695 Posts Joined 07/16/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From guivre
    Quote From Pezman

    Example #1: I posted a deck a few weeks ago, and upvoted myself. Someone else came along and downvoted it. No comment or anything. What's the point? If you don't like the deck, offer some constructive criticism. Why was it worth someone's time to just randomly downvote a deck?

    In general, when voting on forums was first introduced it was to prevent spammy posts. Would you rather have a downvote or the village idiot going around saying THIS SUCKS or a posting a poop emoji on a deck. I'd rather have the downvote.

    That's not to cover sincere voting yea or nay on a deck and why someone may feel it's important to contribute or not. 

    People do that anyway though? Make a thread talking about anything and one of the first comments will be someone saying "salt thread

    Keeping track of something: Zyella, meisterz39, iWatchUSleep, DoubleSummon, Khaostheory1980, lMarcusl, RavenSunHS, Hydrafrog

    1
  • Alfi's Avatar Devoted Academic 1330 810 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    Just my two cents. How I do upvote/downwote

    Most of the comments I just read.

    If I like the comment, I upvote. 

    If I think the comment is aggresive or offtopic I downvote. 

     

    EDIT: I just realized I downvote when I strongly disagree with a comment if someone already responded with my thoughts. Basically to me these are Agree - Disagree buttons.

    -=alfi=-

    1
  • Alleria's Avatar 875 428 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago

    For me it´s quite simple. I upvote when I agree with the comment, support it or just like it, I downvote when I disagree or don´t like it (mostly troll or mean posts). When I have something to add/say to the post, I reply to it directly, if I don´t I just express my feelings by up/downvoting if I feel that way (f.e. there is no point on replying "I agree", when I can just upvote the comment, which means the same).

    By downvoting I don´t mean to hurt someone´s feelings, and when someone downvotes me, I don´t take it as assault towards me, I take it as they simply don´t agree with me and that´s okay.

    3
  • KANSAS's Avatar Old God Fanatic 1635 2527 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 2 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From clawz161
     

     I have been the subject of many, MANY downvote mobs even when i was making obvious jokes(i made a joke about an otk using 2 cards from 2 different classes, i proceeded to be downvoted into oblivion because people didn't understand that the fact it was impossible to generate both cards was the joke.) and it doesn't matter. 

    On the topic of downvoting people when they are making a joke, sometimes the joke isn't funny, sometimes the joke is inappropriate, maybe it is too obscure and people don't get it, maybe people don't appreciate the sarcasm. There are many reasons someone would want to downvote a joke, and just because you made a joke doesn't mean people have to like it. I am not talking about you specifically, this is just something I have seen people complain about before and I just want to get my opinion out there.

    On the topic of up-votes and down-votes in general, I think SykoMyke is on to something. It would be interesting to just remove the voting system on comments altogether and just have people express their opinions verbally. We would keep it for decks so that we could sort them by popularity and show the hottest decks on the front page, but for comments a voting system simply isn't necessary.

    Carrion, my wayward grub.

    1
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