I think he means Detaining an enemy unit with your indestructible unit. That way, there’s no way to remove the indestructible unit without also getting rid of the detained unit inside it.
Ah, that makes sense. You're right, it'd effectively turn Detain into Vengeance without triggering Last Breaths.
2- Kill effects that requires the target to die still resolves but won't kill the unit. Example: Glimpse Beyond draws 2 cards without killing the target, but Chronicler of Ruin does nothing
That definitely sounds like a bug / programming error to me. From my understanding of the game mechanics, Glimpse Beyond should not trigger if the target doesn't die.
The fact that Chronicler of Ruin doesn't work here is probably that, since the unit didn't die, there's nothing to revive.
4- Playing Detain on a target with Unyielding spirit is almost a death penality
Would you mind elaborating what you mean by this? Are you talking about capturing an enemy unit affected by Unyielding Spirit? I would think that'd be a superb counter since Detain removes any buffs on the unit, so even if freed by the opponent, the Spirit effect would be gone.
This could be a decent tech card for aggro decks to counter stuff like Withering Wail or Miss Fortune - if not for the fact that Demacia as a region doesn't particularly lend itself to aggro decks. So at best, I see this as a super niche card for experimental aggro builds with a splash of Demacia (perhaps something like Dawnspiders?).
Let's not forget Judgment played on Fiora can potencially win the game right away while Unyielding spirit will take a couple turns.
That's what I was thinking, too. I don't know whether I'd want to make room for it in my Fiora deck when I'm already playing 2 Judgments as high-cost win conditions. You'd almost definitely have to float mana and play it on turn 5 for the card to be worth it.
I was also thinking this could be pretty sick on Fiora if you manage to play it by turn 5 or 6. Will have to experiment with this once I actually get the card (I don't think it's one I'll craft right off the bat).
I've never tried playing a Poro deck, so I'm unsure how well that works out in practice. But just looking at this card, I'd say it's about on par with Progress Day in a dedicated Poro deck. It's a huge tempo loss, but also huge card advantage. And I'd say 2 Poros and 2 Snax are valuable cards for such a deck, so you could argue it's even better than Progress Day because of its consistency.
Especially if running a lot of 1-cost Poros, I imagine a deck like that would run out of steam towards the end game, so having a big hand refill sounds fine to me.
Not going to lie, I'm very interested by the prospect of building a Maokai Toss deck, coupled with Piltover & Zaun's new follower that lets your opponent draw a card. I've always enjoyed strategies exploiting alternate win conditions in CCGs (like Final Countdown in Duel Monsters). I don't think I'll try crafting the entire set of necessary cards for it right away, though. I'll probably wait at least one week to open 2 vaults and progress on the region road first.
Edit: After having looked through the full set of new cards, I'm definitely excited to add Trail of Evidence and Subpurrsible to my Catastrophe deck. That deck is performing rather poorly, but it's my favorite deck to play at the moment.
I guess most champions really aren't much stronger than followers unless you build your deck strategy around them. And since you couldn't build your strategy around many different champions at once, this probably wouldn't allow for any absurdly overpowered strategies - yet.
Over time, with more and more champions being introduced, it's a fair assumption that we'll eventually get a number of champions that synergyze very well together. And at that point, playing 9 or 12 champions in your deck may offer overwhelming value compared to other deck strategies which don't have multiple fitting champions.
In short, I believe this could create serious balance issues in the future. That aside, from a design perspective, champions are supposed to give your deck its identity. I mean, you can theoretically play 6 different ones in your deck, but that's rarely a sensible approach.
Isn’t Jagged Butcher kind of insane? He’s basically a Cithria (without the Elite tag) that can gain +1|+1. Hopefully plunder is too hard to activate in early turns
I think they've been quietly updating card text to clearly show what heals nexus, what heals units, and what heals either/both: e.g., Health Potion.
Wow, I hadn't noticed the wording change on Health Potion at all. Thanks for pointing that out.
Personally, I think it would've been fine if they'd stick to distinguishing between (your / your opponent's) Nexus and (allied/enemy) units, in which case "allies/enemies" would encompass both the nexus and units on the board.
But I guess treating the Nexus as a completely separate entity is fine, too. As long as they keep it consistent.
How did u never mention challenger units or frostbite effects is amazing to me.
Challengers, yes. But how does Frostbite counter elusives? I fact, I'd argue it's a lot less effective than against non-elusives (on which you can get free damage during combat).
I will say that the OP's idea for a new mechanic sounds really neat. But as Meisterz pointed out, there's no thematic link to the units which currently have the Elusive keyword.
If nothing else, this will be an amazing addition to my recently crafted The Undying deck. As other people have pointed out, the biggest drawback is that your opponent can cancel the spell by removing your unit in response. Overall, it looks like a balanced alternative to Black Spear.
I'm definitely interested in trying to fit this in a stun-themed deck with Yasuo. Although I guess the leveled-up Nexus Strike effect makes Yasuo's kind of redundant, plus Swain wants you to play direct-damage spells.
This card is obviously intended for Maokai mill decks, but I don't see it being played a lot; having several damaged units who can make use of the healing seems very situational (although the Burst speed is nice). Perhaps there's a gimmicky deck idea out there somewhere, combining this with self-damage units from Freljord or Noxus.
Now, if "allies" included your Nexus, it might be worth considering for some midrange decks, but I remember reading that a dev already confirmed it only affects units.
I think this card is completely ridiculous. Granted, it gets destroyed by a chump blocker, so its high attack isn't that big of a deal as long as your opponent is playing small units. But getting a free 4/4 out of the deal is just bonkers, not to mention that since he's a scout, you can have him attack, die, and then attack with the Badger Bear. Like, a 4/4 for 4 mana is mediocre, but not that bad - and you're getting a free 4-damage attack on top of that.
If anything, the Badger Bear should be added to your hand, not summoned to the field.
I think having Overwhelm as an extra keyword and a statline that supports said keyword makes this a stronger card than Defender. Although you're right that "power creep" is the wrong term to use here since it should be reserved for cards that are exactly alike except in a single characteristic.
Reeks of power creep to me; comparing this to Vanguard Defender should make it pretty clear. Well, I guess Defender has the Elite tag, which counts for something.
As for the card itself, I think it's pretty cool. Obviously has some nice synergy with the self-damage theme, plus Freljord doesn't really have any aggressive early-game units yet, so this will give the region a new tool to play around with and possibly find its way into some weird aggro deck at some point.
I agree on the 3/2 follower that guy is kind of bad it gives you -1 card advantage since you play himm he replaces itself but the opponent get an extra card.
The follower doesn't go away, it stays on the field. So it's not a -1, it's a +/-0.
I could see it finding play in combo decks where you want as much card draw as possible. Or, as others have already pointed out, in mill/mushroom decks. Doesn't seem particularly useful for anything else.
So Fervor is basically just a better Black Spear (something's probably going to die)
Except that for Black Spear, you can sacrifice one of your units in a 1-for-1 combat trade and then activate it to kill another enemy unit. Fervor actively kills your own unit (assuming it has less than 4 health), so it doesn't get to deal any combat damage that turn. In most scenarios, this turns Fervor into a 2-for-1 disadvantage, which only typically works out in your favor if you're killing a Last Breath unit or a token.
What does non-combat damage refer to? Does it mean any damage you deal outside of the combat stage via spells?
I would assume it encompasses any damage that is not dealt during the 'battle step' in combat by attacking or defending units. Which basically means any damage from skills or spells (although I'm not sure about spells which let your units strike an enemy, such as Single Combat).
I think that cards like Shadow Assassin are a problem
Agreed. I'm not going to whine about elusives in general, but Kinkou Lifeblade costing 4 mana while Shadow Assassin costs 3 boggles my mind. And I agree that Greenglade Duo may be a bit overtuned. I'd nerf it to 1 attack rather than upping the mana cost.
Ah, that makes sense. You're right, it'd effectively turn Detain into Vengeance without triggering Last Breaths.
That definitely sounds like a bug / programming error to me. From my understanding of the game mechanics, Glimpse Beyond should not trigger if the target doesn't die.
The fact that Chronicler of Ruin doesn't work here is probably that, since the unit didn't die, there's nothing to revive.
Would you mind elaborating what you mean by this? Are you talking about capturing an enemy unit affected by Unyielding Spirit? I would think that'd be a superb counter since Detain removes any buffs on the unit, so even if freed by the opponent, the Spirit effect would be gone.
This could be a decent tech card for aggro decks to counter stuff like Withering Wail or Miss Fortune - if not for the fact that Demacia as a region doesn't particularly lend itself to aggro decks. So at best, I see this as a super niche card for experimental aggro builds with a splash of Demacia (perhaps something like Dawnspiders?).
That's what I was thinking, too. I don't know whether I'd want to make room for it in my Fiora deck when I'm already playing 2 Judgments as high-cost win conditions. You'd almost definitely have to float mana and play it on turn 5 for the card to be worth it.
I was also thinking this could be pretty sick on Fiora if you manage to play it by turn 5 or 6. Will have to experiment with this once I actually get the card (I don't think it's one I'll craft right off the bat).
I've never tried playing a Poro deck, so I'm unsure how well that works out in practice. But just looking at this card, I'd say it's about on par with Progress Day in a dedicated Poro deck. It's a huge tempo loss, but also huge card advantage. And I'd say 2 Poros and 2 Snax are valuable cards for such a deck, so you could argue it's even better than Progress Day because of its consistency.
Especially if running a lot of 1-cost Poros, I imagine a deck like that would run out of steam towards the end game, so having a big hand refill sounds fine to me.
Not going to lie, I'm very interested by the prospect of building a Maokai Toss deck, coupled with Piltover & Zaun's new follower that lets your opponent draw a card. I've always enjoyed strategies exploiting alternate win conditions in CCGs (like Final Countdown in Duel Monsters). I don't think I'll try crafting the entire set of necessary cards for it right away, though. I'll probably wait at least one week to open 2 vaults and progress on the region road first.
Edit: After having looked through the full set of new cards, I'm definitely excited to add Trail of Evidence and Subpurrsible to my Catastrophe deck. That deck is performing rather poorly, but it's my favorite deck to play at the moment.
I guess most champions really aren't much stronger than followers unless you build your deck strategy around them. And since you couldn't build your strategy around many different champions at once, this probably wouldn't allow for any absurdly overpowered strategies - yet.
Over time, with more and more champions being introduced, it's a fair assumption that we'll eventually get a number of champions that synergyze very well together. And at that point, playing 9 or 12 champions in your deck may offer overwhelming value compared to other deck strategies which don't have multiple fitting champions.
In short, I believe this could create serious balance issues in the future. That aside, from a design perspective, champions are supposed to give your deck its identity. I mean, you can theoretically play 6 different ones in your deck, but that's rarely a sensible approach.
I agree, I think he should be statted 2/1 or 1/2.
Wow, I hadn't noticed the wording change on Health Potion at all. Thanks for pointing that out.
Personally, I think it would've been fine if they'd stick to distinguishing between (your / your opponent's) Nexus and (allied/enemy) units, in which case "allies/enemies" would encompass both the nexus and units on the board.
But I guess treating the Nexus as a completely separate entity is fine, too. As long as they keep it consistent.
Challengers, yes. But how does Frostbite counter elusives? I fact, I'd argue it's a lot less effective than against non-elusives (on which you can get free damage during combat).
I will say that the OP's idea for a new mechanic sounds really neat. But as Meisterz pointed out, there's no thematic link to the units which currently have the Elusive keyword.
If nothing else, this will be an amazing addition to my recently crafted The Undying deck. As other people have pointed out, the biggest drawback is that your opponent can cancel the spell by removing your unit in response. Overall, it looks like a balanced alternative to Black Spear.
I'm definitely interested in trying to fit this in a stun-themed deck with Yasuo. Although I guess the leveled-up Nexus Strike effect makes Yasuo's kind of redundant, plus Swain wants you to play direct-damage spells.
This card is obviously intended for Maokai mill decks, but I don't see it being played a lot; having several damaged units who can make use of the healing seems very situational (although the Burst speed is nice). Perhaps there's a gimmicky deck idea out there somewhere, combining this with self-damage units from Freljord or Noxus.
Now, if "allies" included your Nexus, it might be worth considering for some midrange decks, but I remember reading that a dev already confirmed it only affects units.
I think this card is completely ridiculous. Granted, it gets destroyed by a chump blocker, so its high attack isn't that big of a deal as long as your opponent is playing small units. But getting a free 4/4 out of the deal is just bonkers, not to mention that since he's a scout, you can have him attack, die, and then attack with the Badger Bear. Like, a 4/4 for 4 mana is mediocre, but not that bad - and you're getting a free 4-damage attack on top of that.
If anything, the Badger Bear should be added to your hand, not summoned to the field.
I think having Overwhelm as an extra keyword and a statline that supports said keyword makes this a stronger card than Defender. Although you're right that "power creep" is the wrong term to use here since it should be reserved for cards that are exactly alike except in a single characteristic.
Reeks of power creep to me; comparing this to Vanguard Defender should make it pretty clear. Well, I guess Defender has the Elite tag, which counts for something.
As for the card itself, I think it's pretty cool. Obviously has some nice synergy with the self-damage theme, plus Freljord doesn't really have any aggressive early-game units yet, so this will give the region a new tool to play around with and possibly find its way into some weird aggro deck at some point.
The follower doesn't go away, it stays on the field. So it's not a -1, it's a +/-0.
I could see it finding play in combo decks where you want as much card draw as possible. Or, as others have already pointed out, in mill/mushroom decks. Doesn't seem particularly useful for anything else.
Except that for Black Spear, you can sacrifice one of your units in a 1-for-1 combat trade and then activate it to kill another enemy unit. Fervor actively kills your own unit (assuming it has less than 4 health), so it doesn't get to deal any combat damage that turn. In most scenarios, this turns Fervor into a 2-for-1 disadvantage, which only typically works out in your favor if you're killing a Last Breath unit or a token.
I would assume it encompasses any damage that is not dealt during the 'battle step' in combat by attacking or defending units. Which basically means any damage from skills or spells (although I'm not sure about spells which let your units strike an enemy, such as Single Combat).
Agreed. I'm not going to whine about elusives in general, but Kinkou Lifeblade costing 4 mana while Shadow Assassin costs 3 boggles my mind. And I agree that Greenglade Duo may be a bit overtuned. I'd nerf it to 1 attack rather than upping the mana cost.