More Librams: I just really like the Libram package and would love to see it get some new tools in the next expansion. Specially, I'd love a Libram that has card draw (e.g. "Libram of Focus: 4 mana - Draw 2 cards"), and minion that discovers a Libram (e.g. "Aldor Librarian: 1 mana 1/1 - Battlecry: Discover a Libram.").
More Handbuff: This one is personal. I adore Handbuff and have since Mean Streets and I want more (e.g. "Lead By Example: 3 mana - Give a minion and all minions in your hand +2/+2").
More AoE: I'm sick of using Wild Pyromancer and want some AoE that doesn't depend on 2 card combos (e.g. "Righteous Purge: 6 mana - Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to all enemy minions.")
A Control Win Condition: I'm super flexible on what exactly this is, but Paladin needs something it can do to reliably close the game in a control matchup. Should it be burst damage/OTK? Should it be an infinite-value generator? Should it be a big 10-mana minion? Idk, but Paladin needs something.
In your first suggestion you hit on something people often miss: spells that deal damage are not part of Paladin class identity (in fact I don't think they have had a single one since Classic), and that alone motivates a bit of a rework of the core sets. The same goes for destroy effects, which are almost non-existent in the class.
This observation also goes some way towards answering your 4th suggestion: 1-card AoE requires dealing damage to kill things, which the class just does not do. Its version is to debuff minions (e.g. Equality, Libram of Justice and Shrink Ray), which of course leads to 2-card AoEs if you actually want to kill the minions. This design angle makes Paladin unique and I hope they don't give the class any conventional AoE beyond Consecration.
Regarding your 5th suggestion, I don't think it would be good for the class to have great value generation. It's mix of great healing and value would then look a bit too much like priest. Instead I want its control tools to deal better with aggro from the start, while leaning into what pally does well: minions. It should have more things like Benevolent Djinn as proactive control tools rather than the reactive tools of priest. Sure you might still usually lose to more value-heavy control decks, but it gives you the choice to try to go midrange to win those instead of waiting to lose to value.
Totally fair points. I completely agree that direct damage and single-target damage (aside from weapons if you count those) isn't really a part of Paladin's class identity. I do like that the class uses mass debuffs as it's AoE, I think my frustration is that they always seem to rely on Wild Pyromancer or Consecration to actually clear anything. I think Libram of Justice is a great example of the kind of AoE I want more of for the class, since it equips the 1/4 weapon so you can by default remove at least one thing without combining it with something else.
I would personally be fine with Paladin being positioned as the "midrange" class and tries to win games that way, I just think it needs a little bit more support (such as the proactive control tools or sturdy minions) to get there.
More Librams: I just really like the Libram package and would love to see it get some new tools in the next expansion. Specially, I'd love a Libram that has card draw (e.g. "Libram of Focus: 4 mana - Draw 2 cards"), and minion that discovers a Libram (e.g. "Aldor Librarian: 1 mana 1/1 - Battlecry: Discover a Libram.").
More Handbuff: This one is personal. I adore Handbuff and have since Mean Streets and I want more (e.g. "Lead By Example: 3 mana - Give a minion and all minions in your hand +2/+2").
More AoE: I'm sick of using Wild Pyromancer and want some AoE that doesn't depend on 2 card combos (e.g. "Righteous Purge: 6 mana - Lifesteal. Deal 3 damage to all enemy minions.")
A Control Win Condition: I'm super flexible on what exactly this is, but Paladin needs something it can do to reliably close the game in a control matchup. Should it be burst damage/OTK? Should it be an infinite-value generator? Should it be a big 10-mana minion? Idk, but Paladin needs something.
It's a neat idea, and one that I could see being a cool ability attached to a card like Vilefin Inquisitor. But if I'm being honest, I think if you want to make Paladin stronger and cement handbuff as a core mechanic it's better long-term to do a revamp of their basic/classic set instead.
Kael'thas Sunstrider - 1 mana is a nice way to slow it down but not kill it. I think Combo decks need to exist even if they aren't my fav archetype to play with or against, so I'm glad they didn't change the ability.
Bad Luck Albatross - I feel this change moves it out of auto-include territory and into a deliberate tech card choice. Now you'll only include it if you specifically want to shut down highlander/pure paladin/spell mage, but it's wayyy worse against everything else.
Frenzied Felwing - Feels like a fair nerf. Still a good aggressive card but much easier to remove.
Altruis the Outcast - Guys, I know the 4 attack makes it stronger, but going up by 1 mana is a big deal. This ain't a buff. Combined with the change to Kael'thas it is way harder to do massive burst with him cause you'll have less mana to play cards on the same turn.
Battlefiend - Called this one before it was even released. Great change.
Libram of Justice - It's a nice buff. I doubt it's enough to really push Paladin up, but it helps. I've been playing a lot of Librams lately and there are a lot of times where it cost just a tiny bit too much. Now you can fairly reliably expect it to cost 3ish mana by the time you need it (if not less).
Sure, it's good in a murloc deck, but honestly I could just see this being run as a pretty good 2-drop in a midrange paladin deck. It's basically a Shotbot that shuffles a one-card board flood into your deck. What's not to like?
Whenever I make a new deck I always test it first against the expert innkeeper (specifically Shaman). I basically use that to get a "feel" of the deck and make sure it works as intended (e.g. Is there enough draw? Are there enough early-game minions? Does the combo work? Do any cards stand out as really strong or too situational? Does the deck have enough top end? Etc.). After I've done this I'll take it onto ladder for proper testing and refining, but I like the innkeeper as a low-stakes first test.
Except that the tigers in deck and hand will cost 25. So im not seeing u being able to discount the other 2
No they won't cost 25, that's not how Shirvallah, the Tiger works. The discount from playing spells applies to ALL copies of Shirvallah, including ones you generate or bounce (technically the game applies the discount when it enters your hand, hence why the Holy Wrath combo deals 25 damage not 0 damage).
So if you play a (0) mana Shirvallah and then play Sathrovarr on it you'll end up with 2 Shirvallahs in play, another in hand that costs (0), and another in your deck that when you draw it you can play for (0). In a Shirvallah OTK deck that could be a pretty powerful spike that keeps the Holy Wrath combo intact.
Oh hey it's Inspire. I really wish they'd keep using the keywords they've created (e.g. "Inspire" vs. "After you use your hero power...; "Echo" vs. "Repeatable this turn."; "Recruit" vs. "Summon from your deck."; etc.). Otherwise, why bother making the keyword in the first place?
Didn't they explain it to make the game more accessible to general casual players? So they don't have to remember many keywords and gave up in the process
They did, but I don't really agree with that justification. Here's why:
1) For a brand new player, the mode they are heavily encouraged to play first is standard. In standard, the maximum amount of sets you'll be exposed to is 8 (basic, classic, and 6 expansions). Putting aside the basic and classic keywords (since those have to be learned regardless), most expansions have 1-2 keywords. Meaning you have 6-12 extra keywords to learn. Since they tend not to print a ton of cards with old mechanics that lack their keyword (such as Inspire and Dragonbane) you're looking at only a handful of "old" keywords to relearn to play standard (maybe on average 1 per set, so ~6 keywords). Is going from 6-12 keywords to AT MOST 12-18 keywords really too much complexity for a new player that it justifies losing consistency?
2) If you're playing wild, arena, dungeon run, or tavern brawl (and also now likely battleground), you have to learn all the keywords anyways. In those environments, random card outliers that don't have the keywords hurt text consistency at literally no benefit.
3) If I'm a casual player who played the game, left the game for a while, and now decided to return, reusing the keywords is actual a benefit to me. It could give me a bit of familiarity with the new cards because I already know those mechanics from when I used to play (e.g. "Oh hey, that new card has inspire. I remember inspire from when I used to play this game, so I know what that does.").
Oh hey it's Inspire. I really wish they'd keep using the keywords they've created (e.g. "Inspire" vs. "After you use your hero power...; "Echo" vs. "Repeatable this turn."; "Recruit" vs. "Summon from your deck."; etc.). Otherwise, why bother making the keyword in the first place?
I love that they are doing more buffs! I think there are more cards I would like adjusted, but seems like a great set of changes to me.
Totally fair points. I completely agree that direct damage and single-target damage (aside from weapons if you count those) isn't really a part of Paladin's class identity. I do like that the class uses mass debuffs as it's AoE, I think my frustration is that they always seem to rely on Wild Pyromancer or Consecration to actually clear anything. I think Libram of Justice is a great example of the kind of AoE I want more of for the class, since it equips the 1/4 weapon so you can by default remove at least one thing without combining it with something else.
I would personally be fine with Paladin being positioned as the "midrange" class and tries to win games that way, I just think it needs a little bit more support (such as the proactive control tools or sturdy minions) to get there.
Ahh, Paladin. I have so many wishes for Paladin.
I personally haven't had any significant connection issues this week.
It's a neat idea, and one that I could see being a cool ability attached to a card like Vilefin Inquisitor. But if I'm being honest, I think if you want to make Paladin stronger and cement handbuff as a core mechanic it's better long-term to do a revamp of their basic/classic set instead.
My two cents:
Kael'thas Sunstrider - 1 mana is a nice way to slow it down but not kill it. I think Combo decks need to exist even if they aren't my fav archetype to play with or against, so I'm glad they didn't change the ability.
Bad Luck Albatross - I feel this change moves it out of auto-include territory and into a deliberate tech card choice. Now you'll only include it if you specifically want to shut down highlander/pure paladin/spell mage, but it's wayyy worse against everything else.
Frenzied Felwing - Feels like a fair nerf. Still a good aggressive card but much easier to remove.
Altruis the Outcast - Guys, I know the 4 attack makes it stronger, but going up by 1 mana is a big deal. This ain't a buff. Combined with the change to Kael'thas it is way harder to do massive burst with him cause you'll have less mana to play cards on the same turn.
Battlefiend - Called this one before it was even released. Great change.
Glaivebound Adept - I didn't think this needed a nerf, but eh, sure I guess? Feels more in line with Fire Elemental now.
Sacrificial Pact - Feels like a really healthy change. Looking forward to more Lord Jaraxxus ;)
Libram of Justice - It's a nice buff. I doubt it's enough to really push Paladin up, but it helps. I've been playing a lot of Librams lately and there are a lot of times where it cost just a tiny bit too much. Now you can fairly reliably expect it to cost 3ish mana by the time you need it (if not less).
I don't play wild, so I don't know/care about Bloodbloom or Open the Waygate.
I like Talritha a lot but yeah I find you need like 6+ dragons to get her value consistently
Announced changes: https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/hearthstone/t/an-update-on-demon-hunter/29091
Sure, it's good in a murloc deck, but honestly I could just see this being run as a pretty good 2-drop in a midrange paladin deck. It's basically a Shotbot that shuffles a one-card board flood into your deck. What's not to like?
I like that we went from knowing only a few cards for Paladin this expansion to basically knowing them all lol
That's a pretty neat draw spell, which will be nice since Paladin is losing Crystology
Infinite free buffs are pretty nice.
It's good already without having the cost reduced. Get multiple cheap copies with Lady Liadrin and it seems pretty great.
I wish this was a Paladin card :(
It seems neat, but idk how much play it will get since it seems pretty slow for a zoo deck.
Whenever I make a new deck I always test it first against the expert innkeeper (specifically Shaman). I basically use that to get a "feel" of the deck and make sure it works as intended (e.g. Is there enough draw? Are there enough early-game minions? Does the combo work? Do any cards stand out as really strong or too situational? Does the deck have enough top end? Etc.). After I've done this I'll take it onto ladder for proper testing and refining, but I like the innkeeper as a low-stakes first test.
No they won't cost 25, that's not how Shirvallah, the Tiger works. The discount from playing spells applies to ALL copies of Shirvallah, including ones you generate or bounce (technically the game applies the discount when it enters your hand, hence why the Holy Wrath combo deals 25 damage not 0 damage).
So if you play a (0) mana Shirvallah and then play Sathrovarr on it you'll end up with 2 Shirvallahs in play, another in hand that costs (0), and another in your deck that when you draw it you can play for (0). In a Shirvallah OTK deck that could be a pretty powerful spike that keeps the Holy Wrath combo intact.
They did, but I don't really agree with that justification. Here's why:
1) For a brand new player, the mode they are heavily encouraged to play first is standard. In standard, the maximum amount of sets you'll be exposed to is 8 (basic, classic, and 6 expansions). Putting aside the basic and classic keywords (since those have to be learned regardless), most expansions have 1-2 keywords. Meaning you have 6-12 extra keywords to learn. Since they tend not to print a ton of cards with old mechanics that lack their keyword (such as Inspire and Dragonbane) you're looking at only a handful of "old" keywords to relearn to play standard (maybe on average 1 per set, so ~6 keywords). Is going from 6-12 keywords to AT MOST 12-18 keywords really too much complexity for a new player that it justifies losing consistency?
2) If you're playing wild, arena, dungeon run, or tavern brawl (and also now likely battleground), you have to learn all the keywords anyways. In those environments, random card outliers that don't have the keywords hurt text consistency at literally no benefit.
3) If I'm a casual player who played the game, left the game for a while, and now decided to return, reusing the keywords is actual a benefit to me. It could give me a bit of familiarity with the new cards because I already know those mechanics from when I used to play (e.g. "Oh hey, that new card has inspire. I remember inspire from when I used to play this game, so I know what that does.").
Oh hey it's Inspire. I really wish they'd keep using the keywords they've created (e.g. "Inspire" vs. "After you use your hero power...; "Echo" vs. "Repeatable this turn."; "Recruit" vs. "Summon from your deck."; etc.). Otherwise, why bother making the keyword in the first place?
Has a lot of potential (0-mana Shirvallah, the Tiger + this on turn 9 is really strong).
4/8 Taunt for 6 is solid vanilla stats. Discovering a dragon off it makes it a really solid card.