Hell, it's about time. Though I'm not confident, that the 1-cost increase would be enough.
Vargoth is infinitely better in the deck than Barnes will ever be. Barnes created highrolls, but Vargoth created intense value/sustain against control decks. Vargoth allows double Mass Res boards out of thin air (more so if they choose to shadow visions Mass Res for extra greed).
I'm guessing the logic is that Barnes on 5 means the next turn requires a choice between Eternal Servitude and Shadow Essence, delaying the one of those an additional turn too rather than having a devastating 4-5-6.
As with most nerfs to polarising decks (old quest rogue I'm looking at you), it won't make much difference to the match-ups that it has a crazy win rate against, but it might be enough to decrease the win rate sufficiently to also decrease the play rate.
I guess you are right, but if there is really a drop in the play-rate, I want to see it with my eyes. I have played against a handful of Big Priests, which didn't include Barnes in their decks, in order to score better results from Shadow Essence and Catrina Muerte. So I'm kinda sceptical how things will turn out to be after the balance patch. I really want to see various control decks popping up more often in wild.
And I'm not complaining about myself, I play greedy thief priest decks, which counter them hard. But I feel like normal control decks (such as Reno Mage, Warlock, Control Warrior, Shaman etc) can't see the light of day only because they can't deal with so many waves of big minions.
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A more fundamental change than a mana increase may have been better, but I'm not sure how much that would really help if you are playing a slow deck anyway.
I'm very confident, that a bump to 6 mana would have mattered a lot. This would allow some slow decks to draw and play their late-game AoEs more easily.
The question now is: when the refund drops, do I dust Barnes to make a Legendary I actually want to use, or do I keep him and maintain the integrity of the Karazhan set I paid money for?
Speaking for myself, I won't hesitate to dust Barnes and craft a legendary of my choice. There are some fun SOU legendaries I laid eyes on from the very beginning.
Clicking around, I just figured out how to link actual cards in the deck guide. Can someone explain how to edit the text? For example, suppose I just want to say Raza for brevity, but still have it link to Raza the Chained when you mouse over it.
But do you think we will get more a more detailed background story of the EVIL league?
Not sure. I mean, if it is some scheme to revive Deathwing then someone else is behind it, right? N'Zoth? I believe he was the original source behind the corruption of Deathwing to bring about the Cataclysm. And seeing as he was just released in WoW, perhaps he is influencing the events of Hearthstone as well. He could be using Rafaam for some bigger scheme and steered him towards the others. And if an Old God is involved, it would make sense why a previously minor character without a name (Madam Lazule) got brought into the scheme in the first place.
Nice read. Now I'm eager to see what the dénouement of this story would be like.
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Ultimately I don't expect the story telling depth of WoW in Hearthstone. So I wouldn't expect to get a better explanation other than Rafaam had a scheme, needed some lovable losers to use in his plans, and he gathered the rest of the EVIL League.
I see. I guess my expectations are just too high, but I really want to see how Blizzard fills some plot holes.
I have a feeling that Rafaam's true intentions will be revealed in the third expansion this year.
Ya. I am also confident, that this will be the case. Some people speculated the return of Deathwing due to his connection to the Neferset tol'virs (led by Dark Pharaoh Tekahn), so the "journey" to Uldum might have something to do with finding a lethal weapon in the Halls of Origination, in order to spread chaos like the dragon wanted.
But do you think we will get more a more detailed background story of the EVIL league?
Among others, I think the Shaman quest needs to be addressed. The payoff is too good for how easy it is to complete, given the existence of lackeys and lackey generators. Playing against Quest Shaman feels like you have a chance....until they complete the quest, and then it's just a matter of delaying the inevitable.
Yup, I think Quest Shaman needs to be adressed too. I'm playing a jade version of it in wild and the hero power is even more absurd there.
Follow up question: how do decks get chosen for the "Hot Decks" list on the main page? I just clicked through the 5 standard decks posted there, and they all have minimal guides and only a few votes each. Personally, I've viewed and commented on a bunch of other people's decks, and that's generally the place I look first.
I am not really knowledgeable with the whole upvote system, but I think that if your deck has 2/3+ upvotes and it's relatively new, it will appear on the home page.
Oh God, I wanted to see more storytelling on Blizzard's behalf. I was really curious and wanted to know more about what happened to our beloved heroes after LoE (beside that Elise went to Un'Goro).
I kinda wish we had a better storytelling for the villains too. I might be spoiled, but I am not buying the story that Rafaam somehow learnt about the other evildoers and knew, that he would intrigue them by offering the opportunity for revenge. How did he find them anyway? Hagatha was wandering around in an unknown place after the Gilneans banished her from the swamp. Why did Rafaam lay eyes on Dalaran and wanted to take it instead of just flying with a zeppelin to Uldum in the first place? And how come no one wondered what his initial plans were, but only once they jumped from the zeppelin? Speaking of which, how did they land? Also, I wanted to learn more about the different characters - like why Rafaam is a warlock and not a mage, how did he meet King Togwaggle in the first place (in the Up Comes Down comic we see Rafaam giving Togwaggle the lantern crown), what's Madame Lazul's benefit from all of this or does she perform those things for the glory of the old gods? Dr. Boom resided in Outland (Netherstorm) and now he is in Azeroth? He travelled a long distance just to spread havoc in another region?
So I made a budget token druid deck in wild and went 8-2 in casual (I'm rank 3 atm and didn't want to risk running a budget deck on the higher ranks).
My games were the following:
1) vs Burn Mage - win. 2) vs Quest Shaman - win. 3) vs Big Priest - loss. 4) vs Big Priest - win. 6) vs Odd rogue - loss. 7) vs Shudder Reno Shaman - win (I barely made it though). 8) vs Miracle Quest Mage -win. 9) vs odd paladin - win. 10) vs egg zoo warlock - win. 10) vs zoo(?) Reno paladin - win.
I expected a nerf to CC, but Extra Arms is getting renerfed? I am honestly really surprised about the latter change. Well, I kinda hope warrior gets a slight hit too.
[edit] Are they really planning on nerfing Northshire Cleric as well? Jared Noel mentions her in their chat above.
I'm not a priest main, although I only like playing its thief archtype in wild, but I want to ask the following question:
If the devs were to HoF the Inner Fire package, what would be left of priest? Zoo? Resurrect/Deathrattle? Thief? Shadowform? All of those don't have enough support in standard (at least imo). Mind Blast got HoFed, so with the HoF to IF/DS combo priest would be officially shut down. The class needs tons of defensive tools to build a good control deck and even then they can't really outvalue control warrior.
I will try to make a more useful deck guide soon, but for now I can say the following:
Mulligan for lackey generators, so that you complete the quest by turn 4, 5 or 6. Against mage it's a good idea to keep Jinyu Waterspeaker, since they would most likely be playing burn. Against paladin and shaman - Sandstorm Elemental. Keep your heal high and spam jades. Kthx
Hey, don't worry. I admit, that I was wrong. From the start I felt like Elise the Enlightened would fit in some kind of a combo deck and I pictured seeing her in a normal Malygos one with bunch of duplicates. I figured, that the condition of her effect would be met, if the druid player draws enough cards. This might be the case, but I shouldn't have denied the fact, that druids' survivability got weakened after the rotation and they have a hard time dealing with the opponent's aggression. So their combo decks aren't really viable.
But I am also very surprised seeing that highlander decks managed to work after all. Pre-release I was like everyone else - I thought, that bomb warrior would hard counter them. I knew that Reno the Relicologist and Dinotamer Brann would be useful, but I only considered them being staples in their respective wild variants. At least there people had a reason to play highlander - Reno Jackson. My mistake was, that I strongly underrated the power of Zephrys the Great. I should have considered the possibility, that he could consistently give us lethal, even if we are far from killing the opponent (with things like Savage Roar, Bloodlust, Whirlwind). I just thought, that he would be the new Kazakus - strong, but a plain value generator. I was wrong, he fits in so many different playstyles, that he is meta defining like Kripp said.
I also admit, I would have never pictured Sir Finley of the Sands being included in a Prismatic LensTip the Scales deck. I've never liked highrolly decks and I don't even try to theorycraft such lists before an expansion is released.
Thinking the same. I have played against a handful of Big Priests, which didn't include Barnes in their decks, in order to score better results from Shadow Essence, Mass Resurrection and Catrina Muerte.
I guess you are right, but if there is really a drop in the play-rate, I want to see it with my eyes. I have played against a handful of Big Priests, which didn't include Barnes in their decks, in order to score better results from Shadow Essence and Catrina Muerte. So I'm kinda sceptical how things will turn out to be after the balance patch. I really want to see various control decks popping up more often in wild.
And I'm not complaining about myself, I play greedy thief priest decks, which counter them hard. But I feel like normal control decks (such as Reno Mage, Warlock, Control Warrior, Shaman etc) can't see the light of day only because they can't deal with so many waves of big minions.
I'm very confident, that a bump to 6 mana would have mattered a lot. This would allow some slow decks to draw and play their late-game AoEs more easily.
Wait? Does this mean, that you've kept Moroes?
Speaking for myself, I won't hesitate to dust Barnes and craft a legendary of my choice. There are some fun SOU legendaries I laid eyes on from the very beginning.
Barnes now costs 5 mana (Up from 4)
Hell, it's about time. Though I'm not confident, that the 1-cost increase would be enough.
Check this thread:
https://outof.cards/forums/out-of-cards/site-feedback-ideas/1002-some-suggestions-for-improving-deck-guides-and-deck-pages-overall
Chimera gave me very interesting tips on how to use custom tooltips.
Nice read. Now I'm eager to see what the dénouement of this story would be like.
I see. I guess my expectations are just too high, but I really want to see how Blizzard fills some plot holes.
Ya. I am also confident, that this will be the case. Some people speculated the return of Deathwing due to his connection to the Neferset tol'virs (led by Dark Pharaoh Tekahn), so the "journey" to Uldum might have something to do with finding a lethal weapon in the Halls of Origination, in order to spread chaos like the dragon wanted.
But do you think we will get more a more detailed background story of the EVIL league?
Yup, I think Quest Shaman needs to be adressed too. I'm playing a jade version of it in wild and the hero power is even more absurd there.
I am not really knowledgeable with the whole upvote system, but I think that if your deck has 2/3+ upvotes and it's relatively new, it will appear on the home page.
Oh God, I wanted to see more storytelling on Blizzard's behalf. I was really curious and wanted to know more about what happened to our beloved heroes after LoE (beside that Elise went to Un'Goro).
I kinda wish we had a better storytelling for the villains too. I might be spoiled, but I am not buying the story that Rafaam somehow learnt about the other evildoers and knew, that he would intrigue them by offering the opportunity for revenge. How did he find them anyway? Hagatha was wandering around in an unknown place after the Gilneans banished her from the swamp. Why did Rafaam lay eyes on Dalaran and wanted to take it instead of just flying with a zeppelin to Uldum in the first place? And how come no one wondered what his initial plans were, but only once they jumped from the zeppelin? Speaking of which, how did they land? Also, I wanted to learn more about the different characters - like why Rafaam is a warlock and not a mage, how did he meet King Togwaggle in the first place (in the Up Comes Down comic we see Rafaam giving Togwaggle the lantern crown), what's Madame Lazul's benefit from all of this or does she perform those things for the glory of the old gods? Dr. Boom resided in Outland (Netherstorm) and now he is in Azeroth? He travelled a long distance just to spread havoc in another region?
Ikr? It just became playable and now it's going to the dumpster again.
Don't you mean Rank 1 Legend? ;)
So I made a budget token druid deck in wild and went 8-2 in casual (I'm rank 3 atm and didn't want to risk running a budget deck on the higher ranks).
My games were the following:
1) vs Burn Mage - win.
2) vs Quest Shaman - win.
3) vs Big Priest - loss.
4) vs Big Priest - win.
6) vs Odd rogue - loss.
7) vs Shudder Reno Shaman - win (I barely made it though).
8) vs Miracle Quest Mage -win.
9) vs odd paladin - win.
10) vs egg zoo warlock - win.
10) vs zoo(?) Reno paladin - win.
A bit later I will try to write a guide. Done.
And it just got buffed. I liked it at two mana, the card finally became playable.
I expected a nerf to CC, but Extra Arms is getting renerfed? I am honestly really surprised about the latter change. Well, I kinda hope warrior gets a slight hit too.
[edit] Are they really planning on nerfing Northshire Cleric as well? Jared Noel mentions her in their chat above.
Hey, are you planning on updating the list?
I'm not a priest main, although I only like playing its thief archtype in wild, but I want to ask the following question:
If the devs were to HoF the Inner Fire package, what would be left of priest? Zoo? Resurrect/Deathrattle? Thief? Shadowform? All of those don't have enough support in standard (at least imo). Mind Blast got HoFed, so with the HoF to IF/DS combo priest would be officially shut down. The class needs tons of defensive tools to build a good control deck and even then they can't really outvalue control warrior.
I will try to make a more useful deck guide soon, but for now I can say the following:
Mulligan for lackey generators, so that you complete the quest by turn 4, 5 or 6. Against mage it's a good idea to keep Jinyu Waterspeaker, since they would most likely be playing burn. Against paladin and shaman - Sandstorm Elemental. Keep your heal high and spam jades. Kthx
Hey, don't worry. I admit, that I was wrong. From the start I felt like Elise the Enlightened would fit in some kind of a combo deck and I pictured seeing her in a normal Malygos one with bunch of duplicates. I figured, that the condition of her effect would be met, if the druid player draws enough cards. This might be the case, but I shouldn't have denied the fact, that druids' survivability got weakened after the rotation and they have a hard time dealing with the opponent's aggression. So their combo decks aren't really viable.
But I am also very surprised seeing that highlander decks managed to work after all. Pre-release I was like everyone else - I thought, that bomb warrior would hard counter them. I knew that Reno the Relicologist and Dinotamer Brann would be useful, but I only considered them being staples in their respective wild variants. At least there people had a reason to play highlander - Reno Jackson. My mistake was, that I strongly underrated the power of Zephrys the Great. I should have considered the possibility, that he could consistently give us lethal, even if we are far from killing the opponent (with things like Savage Roar, Bloodlust, Whirlwind). I just thought, that he would be the new Kazakus - strong, but a plain value generator. I was wrong, he fits in so many different playstyles, that he is meta defining like Kripp said.
I also admit, I would have never pictured Sir Finley of the Sands being included in a Prismatic Lens Tip the Scales deck. I've never liked highrolly decks and I don't even try to theorycraft such lists before an expansion is released.
Now all we need to do is to figure out how to play more complex piano pieces. Can't wait until someone performs Megalovania.