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lMarcusl

Joined 06/03/2019 Achieve Points 390 Posts 387

lMarcusl's Forum Posts

  • lMarcusl's Avatar
    390 387 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

    You have it all sorts of backwards. It's not ok for a minion to be played turn 1 that requires double its mana cost to be killed. This parity does not exist at any other mana cost. You Fireball a Yeti for equal cost, you Frostbolt a Radiant Elemental for equal cost. Hell, it's often the other way around, where you invest more into the minion than what it takes to kill it (Shadow Word: Death vs say an Emeriss), which makes perfect sense because removal can only be used reactively, while minions are simply played and require an answer before they start causing havoc repeatedly turn after turn. Hence why, for instance, MtG's Terror only costs 2 mana while easily killing minions from costs 1 to infinity. Because removal, on its own, does not pose a threat, while a minon always does. This applies across essentially all card games: removal comes cheaper than the cards it removes. So no, your logic does not apply.

    Similarly, it simply does not make sense in terms of balance at all that an opposing 1-drop should lock you out of the board until you can play a very specific type of 2-drop to kill it. If an opponent drops a Northshire, you now cannot play your own 1-drop on turn 1 (it is by no means limited to 1/1s as you're claiming), and you are locked out of dropping the majority of worthwhile 2-drops as well since a 3/2 statline is generally not desirable over 2/3. In essence, the opponent's 1-drop has just locked you out of the game until you use a 2 cost removal or play a 3 drop (that is assuming the 1 drop does not then receive additional buffs). And that holds for most 1/3s in fact. When Mana Wyrm was a 1-drop it often forced a coined removal just to prevent truckloads of damage the very next turn, Eternium Rover and Glowtron can both snowball through Magnetic, Northshire snowballs card advantage or board presence since it's in a class that has buff spells (hence the recent nerf of Extra Arms), Dire Mole snowballs through beast synergies (Mark of Y'Shaarj, Crackling Razormaw, Timber Wolf) or just plain buffs (Mark of the Wild, Glaivezooka, Acherus Veteran, Dire Wolf Alpha). If not responded to for double the mana, these minions instantly rival 2-drops in terms of statline with almost any type of support, putting the opposing deck immediately behind at least one minion from the get go, because their own non-1/3 1-drop is denied by the opposing 1/3 and they usually lose their 2 drop to the supported 1/3 on the opposing side (while the supporting card either survives, or buffs the 1/3 sufficiently that the 1/3 survives as, say a 2/1 or a 3/1). Hence why, in my not-humble opinion, the hierarchy of mana cost:stat line ratios in Hearthstone is all kinds of fucked up in the early game and requires rebalance. I have yet to see a card game that has a similarly convoluted logic to the early game as HS does.

  • lMarcusl's Avatar
    390 387 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 6 months ago

    I think the 1/3 statline for 1 regardless of abilities is a mistake in general. I played Shadowverse for a while and though I don't agree or like a lot of the design there, one thing that was really nice was the clear hierarchy of minion costs and stats. No 1-drop minion had better than 1/2 stats, if they had an ability, their stats were most frequently 1/1. Unless a 2-drop had some serious abilities and thus took a major hit to its stats, a 1-drop simply had no chance of killing a 2-drop. Because, duh, you paid twice the amount of mana, of course it should be better. Similarly, two drops were mostly 2/2s, never 3/2s, so they never competed with 3-drops, which were generally 2/3s, etc etc.

    In HS, the statlines are all over the place. There are one drops that merrily trade with the most common two drops (Brazen Zealot is the latest example) or snowball to sizes that can compete with 4-drops (the recently nerfed Mana Wyrm, Tunnel Trogg still does this shit, as could Undertaker and Brazen Zealot), 2-drops with 3/2 statline kill slightly understatted 3-drops, but themselves die to 2/1 1-drops etc. The reason 1/3 for 1 is so egregious is that there is literally no way outside of Forbidden Words to kill such a minion cost efficiently. The nearest removal that does the job is Frostbolt, for twice the amount of mana. Beyond that, you have to make major concessions through cards like Spirit Bomb, Soulfire or Corruption (lol). That means that any deck that goes first and lands its 1/3 is ahead for the foreseeable future right out of the gate with no room for response. This philosophy needs to change, and it's not limited to just Northshire Cleric or Rover. The stat hierarchy should be rethought across the board in Hearthstone IMO. 

  • lMarcusl's Avatar
    390 387 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago
    Quote From Alfi

    Maybe a mechanical change: Ressurect effects should remove the minion from resurrect pool and the ressurected minion will not enter the ressurečt pool, so every minion can be resurected only once.

    I like the idea of a graveyard from Magic, but that change does nothing to address the issue of 4/8 Obsidian Statues, full sized Y'sharrj or Lich King hitting the board on turns 4-6. At that point it does not matter they can't res another one until the first one dies. You'd have to be able to kill the first one, and even if you can, your game is over. Regardless of what deck you're playing (Combo, Midrange, Aggro, Control) you just lost; they stabilised and it will only keep getting worse from there.

  • lMarcusl's Avatar
    390 387 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 4 years, 9 months ago

    I concur with RavenSunHS, up to a point. I think all that needs to be done about the res mechanic is simply consider "copies" their own separate cards, i.e. a 5/5 copy of a minion is just that, a minion token with 5/5 stats and the text of the minion you copied, not the original minion with a debuff on it. That way, when a minion gets ressed, it would summon the copy. This would directly disincentivise the use of Barnes, as all he'd be doing is slapping 1/1s into your res pool, and would overall downpower the deck greatly as the opponent would have to actually play or pull the minions from deck with Y'Shaarj to get a full sized body into the res pool. No more 4/8s on turn 4-5, they'll be 1/1s. After Shadow Essence, 5/5s. Much more manageable and easier to kill in the early game, while also downpowering the deck in the late game, as the mass res spells would pick from the full pool. A spellstone could give them a bunch of 1/1s and 5/5s for you to comfortably trade into and their biggest swing spell is gone. Plus, many of the minions would be within range of many AoE mid-game clears, so that control can actually start being a thing again.

    At the height of my frustration with Res Priest, I tried playing the deck myself to figure out how to beat them and where their biggest weak points lie and Barnes is by far the biggest culprit. It is SO easy to get completely run over by even a midrangy or combo deck if you don't get the insane pressure out of Barnes highrolls. In most games where I was under pressure, even Shadow Essense tended to be too slow or return inconsistent results (if you didn't get Obsidian Statue, and even then you die to silence). If Barnes gets butchered, in whichever way it takes, the deck's winrate will tank hard. And if the winrate tanks hard, the popularity of the deck will too. I'm ok with super value focused Res Priest existing as a niche deck, it just has to not be the go-to for winrate, as it is now. Hitting the res mechanic or Barnes directly is a must. And most importantly, hitting the res mechanic in this way really only nerfs Res Priest itself, as for example Gul'Dan, Kangor's Endless Army or N'Zoth decks wouldn't get impacted, since they play their minions full sized. I think restricting the res pool to only ever summon a single copy of a minion, so that you cannot resummon multiple Statues off of one dead Statue etc., would hit too many other, otherwise interesting and fun decks that use resurrection mechanics.

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