Wow. The last event gave away the Poppy emote for free, and this one makes Caitlyn free. Are they intentionally giving away the S-tier one each time, or is it just luck?
This looks very polished, and I’m sure it will be fun to try out. I’m not convinced that it will have the variety and replayability of the modes that it’s replacing, though. I guess we’ll find out soon!
I don’t get this. Hearthstone has an ok AI. Why didn’t they use it here? It seems like the only factor it uses in its decisions is “what card can I play?” This means that they will play the Coin on turn 1 even if they don’t have any playable cards to go with it.
I don’t know a lot about the psychology behind F2P games, but my guess is that they found that $5 deals are counterproductive. If you buy it, then a week later when a $20 sale appears you’ll decide you can pass because you just bought something. Not EVERYONE will think that way, of course, but if just 25% of $5 deals keep someone from buying a $20 deal, then it’s not worth it.
It looks like Hearthstone reserves the $5 price point for introductory deals only. New players also get (got?) a $5 deal on normal card packs. The thinking behind this is apparently that it gets the player used to spending money.
On paper, Saltwater Scourge is everything I would have asked for (except for more variety in bosses and characters). I was surprised that I didn’t get into it.
I think these might be the problems, starting with the most important:
The deck-building choices don’t feel interesting. I’m not sure why, but at the end of classic Lab of Legends, I have a super-powered deck with a coherent strategy, and at the end of Saltwater Scourge I have a mish-mash of unrelated cards.
The economy and special encounters are pointless. I don’t want most of the cards offered, so I never need to think about how much gold I have.
I don’t like the final scoring. It encourages me to watch the clock, and to feel bad if I use healing. Managing healing should be part of the game, not something I have to avoid, and a time limit shouldn’t be part of it at all. Other than tracking your deaths, the factors in your score should be achievements rather than the main focus.
Battles feel much more random than in traditional Lab of Legends. I think it’s a mix of my less-developed deck and the high-roll nature of the enemies’ powers. Whatever the reason, I can get overwhelmed in a battle, resurrect, and then win the battle with no problem on my next try. A roguelike CCG should be random, but not that arbitrary.
(Of course, these are all my opinions and I have no problem with the fact that other people enjoy the mode.)
DreamQuest is one of my all-time favorite games, and I hope that Riot can make something similar. I feel like it’s so close, but everything is mixed together slightly wrong.
I’m… hopeful? But also nervous that they’ll take away something fun.
The original Lab of Legends is really fun and I’m surprised by how much I enjoy replaying it. Saltwater Scourge never clicked with me, though. If Reddit can be believed*, most (but not all) people agree with me on that. That means that lightning struck with one attempt but not their follow-up. Do they know how to make another good mode after seeing the response to the disappointment? I really don’t know.
(*Disclaimer: Reddit absolutely canNOT be believed.)
To get good stats for higher ranks, I usually look at Vicious Syndicate. It’s not updated as frequently, but it shows you stats for high Diamond, Legend, and top Legend. Their last report before the nerfs showed Quest Mage at 47-49%, depending on which slice you look at. Meanwhile, it was played 12% of the time outside of Legend, which is pretty amazing. Presumably most of those people chose the deck because they liked it.
Post-nerf, Mage has improved. The brand new report shows it at 50-51%, though at it’s peak it’s only the 11th-best deck. Playrate has only increased about 1%, interestingly enough.
I agree that RPS metas are unhealthy, and it does feel to me like there has been some aspect of that lately. But other people who should know the data are saying that’s less the case than in the past, so I don’t know.
I will say that there has been no recent deck I’ve hated as much as some is the grindy control decks of the past that left you trapped with nothing to do for the last 10 minutes of the game: Rez Priest, Dr. Boom Warrior, that awful OTK Paladin…
I don't think its the case. Because after all, quest mage is still alive and kicking, and as far as standard is concerned that's basically one of the most hated deck right now. Face hunter is equally loathed for multiple expansions and yet never seems to get any nerfs (barring Kolkar Pack Runner). And of course, one of the most infamous example of a very much hated card with low win rates: Tickatus, which has gone through 2 expansions unchanged. Not that Im supporting devs to start nerfing cards whenever they hear an 8 yr old crying in the distance, but its fairly obvious that there's a more robust criteria for nerfing cards.
Two-part answer:
1) I think Dean’s point is that BOTH power and perception play a role, but perception is the bigger one. So a hated card with a 52% WR gets the bat, while a 52% WR card that people accept does not. But that doesn’t mean a hated 47% WR card gets nerfed. The power of the outcry only goes so far.
Quest Mage has been below 50% for most of its lifetime, so despite the hate it gets I don’t think it looks like a problem to the devs. (Since the latest balance changes, it’s crept up to about 51%. We’ll see if that’s enough.) And Tickatus, of course, has always been dumpster tier. Dean said many times that Tickatus was toast if it started winning games. The fact that he was thinking so much about a weak card is evidence that perception influences him.
2) You say that these cards are hated, but you didn’t mention that they’re also loved. Quest Mage stayed super-popular even with bad performance because many people liked it. Tickatus was played because people thought it was fun. (A point Dean made many times in his AMAs.) And Face Hunter is a consistently popular deck even when it’s not tier 1 - a lot of players really love it.
People are always more vocal on message boards about what they hate, but a successful game has to be designed around what people love. It’s a tough balancing act, and I think Team 5 handles it better than most people realize.
I don’t see this as a way to skip playing so much as a way to help your lower-level characters catch up to the rest. I like that - if I reach the point where I’m using high-level characters in PVP or PVE, I’m not going to want to play low-level games to get my new characters up to speed.
Oh good. The app size only doubled last month, and I was really hoping they’d push it farther. Sometimes my phone still manages to download it on the first try.
Yes, I read it. I didn’t see any complaints. It’s fine to choose to be a completionist, it’s fine to choose to go F2P, and it’s fine to pick a place between those extremes. The only things that wouldn’t be fine are judging other people for their choice or blaming Blizzard for making those choices available.
I agree that switching from completionist to F2P is extreme, but it’s not unheard of: If you already have a ton of resources in-game, you may suddenly realize that you don’t need to buy more.
I didn’t see them complaining. The key part is probably how you interpret the phrase “the amount of paid stuff they started tossing around is just way too much”. I read that as “way too much [for me]”, and I think you read it as “way too much [morally]”. As long as they were commenting on what they wanted for themselves in the game, there was no complaint.
This thread is probably getting too picky, but given all the undeserved negativity the Hearthstone has been getting from commenters lately, I did want to defend an appropriately nuanced “this isn’t right for me” comment.
(And yes, you’re right that “OP” was the wrong way to refer to them. But you also don’t know if “he” is right.)
That complaint is even more ridiculous because Blizzard wasn’t behind this news blitz in any way. It’s just how OOC decided to present the information that they researched without any help from Blizzard. (Presumably because OOC knows their readers want this information?)
OP’s note sounded completely fair to me. I’m also sick of all the negative comments people are posting about the game, and I’d have no patience for things like “greedy Blizzard is trying to suck us dry with these cosmetics.” But I have no problem with “this is the point where I decided not to buy every skin.” They weren’t complaining at all, just saying what was right for them.
OP, I hope you enjoy the game with your new approach.
Wow. The last event gave away the Poppy emote for free, and this one makes Caitlyn free. Are they intentionally giving away the S-tier one each time, or is it just luck?
This looks very polished, and I’m sure it will be fun to try out. I’m not convinced that it will have the variety and replayability of the modes that it’s replacing, though. I guess we’ll find out soon!
I don’t get this. Hearthstone has an ok AI. Why didn’t they use it here? It seems like the only factor it uses in its decisions is “what card can I play?” This means that they will play the Coin on turn 1 even if they don’t have any playable cards to go with it.
I agree with that completely :) Rogue should have more skins, even though I’ll probably keep using Scabbs.
Oh, of course. I would have been shocked if Brandon replied to say I changed his mind.
You should count Scabbs, because the Mercenary characters are better than the Warcraft characters.
Mercs have the guaranteed legendary in your first 10 packs, but after that there is NO pity timer.
There IS a fairly large contingent of players who would make one $10 purchase but not two $5 purchases. Psychology is funny like that.
I don’t know a lot about the psychology behind F2P games, but my guess is that they found that $5 deals are counterproductive. If you buy it, then a week later when a $20 sale appears you’ll decide you can pass because you just bought something. Not EVERYONE will think that way, of course, but if just 25% of $5 deals keep someone from buying a $20 deal, then it’s not worth it.
It looks like Hearthstone reserves the $5 price point for introductory deals only. New players also get (got?) a $5 deal on normal card packs. The thinking behind this is apparently that it gets the player used to spending money.
On paper, Saltwater Scourge is everything I would have asked for (except for more variety in bosses and characters). I was surprised that I didn’t get into it.
I think these might be the problems, starting with the most important:
(Of course, these are all my opinions and I have no problem with the fact that other people enjoy the mode.)
DreamQuest is one of my all-time favorite games, and I hope that Riot can make something similar. I feel like it’s so close, but everything is mixed together slightly wrong.
I’m… hopeful? But also nervous that they’ll take away something fun.
The original Lab of Legends is really fun and I’m surprised by how much I enjoy replaying it. Saltwater Scourge never clicked with me, though. If Reddit can be believed*, most (but not all) people agree with me on that. That means that lightning struck with one attempt but not their follow-up. Do they know how to make another good mode after seeing the response to the disappointment? I really don’t know.
(*Disclaimer: Reddit absolutely canNOT be believed.)
To get good stats for higher ranks, I usually look at Vicious Syndicate. It’s not updated as frequently, but it shows you stats for high Diamond, Legend, and top Legend. Their last report before the nerfs showed Quest Mage at 47-49%, depending on which slice you look at. Meanwhile, it was played 12% of the time outside of Legend, which is pretty amazing. Presumably most of those people chose the deck because they liked it.
Post-nerf, Mage has improved. The brand new report shows it at 50-51%, though at it’s peak it’s only the 11th-best deck. Playrate has only increased about 1%, interestingly enough.
I agree that RPS metas are unhealthy, and it does feel to me like there has been some aspect of that lately. But other people who should know the data are saying that’s less the case than in the past, so I don’t know.
I will say that there has been no recent deck I’ve hated as much as some is the grindy control decks of the past that left you trapped with nothing to do for the last 10 minutes of the game: Rez Priest, Dr. Boom Warrior, that awful OTK Paladin…
Two-part answer:
1) I think Dean’s point is that BOTH power and perception play a role, but perception is the bigger one. So a hated card with a 52% WR gets the bat, while a 52% WR card that people accept does not. But that doesn’t mean a hated 47% WR card gets nerfed. The power of the outcry only goes so far.
Quest Mage has been below 50% for most of its lifetime, so despite the hate it gets I don’t think it looks like a problem to the devs. (Since the latest balance changes, it’s crept up to about 51%. We’ll see if that’s enough.) And Tickatus, of course, has always been dumpster tier. Dean said many times that Tickatus was toast if it started winning games. The fact that he was thinking so much about a weak card is evidence that perception influences him.
2) You say that these cards are hated, but you didn’t mention that they’re also loved. Quest Mage stayed super-popular even with bad performance because many people liked it. Tickatus was played because people thought it was fun. (A point Dean made many times in his AMAs.) And Face Hunter is a consistently popular deck even when it’s not tier 1 - a lot of players really love it.
People are always more vocal on message boards about what they hate, but a successful game has to be designed around what people love. It’s a tough balancing act, and I think Team 5 handles it better than most people realize.
I don’t see this as a way to skip playing so much as a way to help your lower-level characters catch up to the rest. I like that - if I reach the point where I’m using high-level characters in PVP or PVE, I’m not going to want to play low-level games to get my new characters up to speed.
Oh good. The app size only doubled last month, and I was really hoping they’d push it farther. Sometimes my phone still manages to download it on the first try.
I don’t believe it. Alternate skins that I’m going to use!
These articles are full of comments from people saying whether or not they want to buy the cosmetics. That seems perfectly appropriate for the topic.
Yes, I read it. I didn’t see any complaints. It’s fine to choose to be a completionist, it’s fine to choose to go F2P, and it’s fine to pick a place between those extremes. The only things that wouldn’t be fine are judging other people for their choice or blaming Blizzard for making those choices available.
I agree that switching from completionist to F2P is extreme, but it’s not unheard of: If you already have a ton of resources in-game, you may suddenly realize that you don’t need to buy more.
I didn’t see them complaining. The key part is probably how you interpret the phrase “the amount of paid stuff they started tossing around is just way too much”. I read that as “way too much [for me]”, and I think you read it as “way too much [morally]”. As long as they were commenting on what they wanted for themselves in the game, there was no complaint.
This thread is probably getting too picky, but given all the undeserved negativity the Hearthstone has been getting from commenters lately, I did want to defend an appropriately nuanced “this isn’t right for me” comment.
(And yes, you’re right that “OP” was the wrong way to refer to them. But you also don’t know if “he” is right.)
That complaint is even more ridiculous because Blizzard wasn’t behind this news blitz in any way. It’s just how OOC decided to present the information that they researched without any help from Blizzard. (Presumably because OOC knows their readers want this information?)
OP’s note sounded completely fair to me. I’m also sick of all the negative comments people are posting about the game, and I’d have no patience for things like “greedy Blizzard is trying to suck us dry with these cosmetics.” But I have no problem with “this is the point where I decided not to buy every skin.” They weren’t complaining at all, just saying what was right for them.
OP, I hope you enjoy the game with your new approach.