Ofc not any Control, and you can't always expect to smash the meta with a Control deck, but you should always get away with decent winrate, as long as you know your deck and you know your meta (I was able to build a Legend-viable Aggro Reno Paladin by adjusting the concept against the meta, so you can guess what you can do there).
Right now Priest got an additional tool with Mindrender Illucia and, and if I were a Control player I think I'd be drooling at Reno Priest (ft. Raise Dead to double your powerhouses and diminish the constrictions of Highlander) for how versatile it is and the depth in gameplay it can reach.
That said, I think gaming burnout has very little to do with the cyclical support to your favourite playstyle.
Removed Sap and included 1x Counterfeit Coin (too often I find myself short of mana for swings), and 1x Beneath the Grounds (let's counter those Control Reno decks)
I have some playtesting against some meta decks at D5 and it proved fair enough, but no extensive results at higher ranks after the expansion hit (so many ideas to try).
Current quest-based gold system is already quite of a grind.
Having it turned into an xp-based continuum looks pretty at first glance, but it's actually just a worse grind.
I am ok with xp giving cosmetics and perks, but gold should be bound as less as possible on intensive grind.
UNLESS there is an easy enough threshold that can give you a favourable compromise as a reward (similar to D5 in ladder), beyond which you only get cosmetics and perks.
Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).
I just wanted to echo how bad this feels to play against...and the emoting that comes after makes it all the saltier, haha
But beyond the gut punch, I just don't believe that a single card should be able to completely disrupt an entire archetype (Combo/OTK), especially when that archetype is a counter to what the class typically likes to do (play Control). I'm not against disruption cards in general, but this one seems too strong/guaranteed.
Thinking of nerfs, I agree that an increase in cost is most likely, but personally I'd like something different. I feel that there needs to be more of a way to play around this card as an opponent. So maybe the nerf could be that you only swap 4 or 5 cards from hand, randomly chosen, along with swapping decks. This way Combo decks could at least add some RNG into the equation by keeping their hand full, but it would come at a cost that would benefit Priests (in terms of losing tempo and/or having to add more card draw to the deck). Alternatively, you could add restrictions on the other end such as swapping only the number of cards that the Priest has in hand.
The problem is that cards like this are necessary unless we want T5 to just lay the nerf/ban hammer hard on combo/otk decks. Even if a combo isn't T0 or even T1 there usually ends up being a lot of uproar that eventually rises from the community. If T5 hasn't already produced a semi-consistent counter card to fight against it then T5 usually will cave to the vocal minority and severely weaken, or even kill, the combo (e.g. Grim Patron, Raging Worgen, Star Aligner, etc). At least with allowing these cards to exist it means T5 is less likely to kill modern combo decks. You have to carefully pick your poison if you want to be able to play the decks you enjoy (this is coming from a heavy wild combo/otk main btw).
Also, in wild otks are a bit ridiculous with 2 decks able to consistently kill you on turns 8 or 9 if you're a control main. While I always stand by the holy trinity of rock-paper-scissors I don't feel us otk players should consistently be able to win against control before turn 10. OTKs aren't meant to function that way. So in wild Illucia actually makes it possible to not insta concede as control if you go against Quest Mage or Mech'athun Lock.
Problem is Mindrender Illucia does much more than giving Control a tip against Combo, as you can steal finishers or key cards from ANY deck you find.
Also, at the moment Illucia is not just giving a chance, she's granting you the power to tear apart any deck based on some key cards, given the right moment to play her.
Mechathunlock almost out of cards > Mindrender Illucia > game over. That's more than just a chance at it.
You could even counter QMage, either stealing their reward, or, in case they are holding the completion, stealing their spell turn right before they are ready to resolve.
Same goes against Druid (steal spells) or any other deck with key cards in hand. Including Aggro, just to say. That's Dirty Rat on steroids.
All of a sudden a Control deck has virtually no vulnerability in the metagame.
If OTK are ridiculous because they can kick in too soon (ie QMage or Druid), then they do deserve a nerf, not a card that can counter anything consistently enough.
I mean, it's not like the game lacks single-target removal, and efficient ones too. Or just silence.
As for Secret Passage and Tour Guide, the meta will soon adjust against hyper-Aggro, as with any expansion. In particular, Secret Passage is only abusable with an extremely low curve, which means a really fragile game for Rogue, which has no solid low cost minion to stabilize board. Nerfing the card to (2) as some suggested means making the card unplayable, and unnecessarily so.
I am still unsure about Voracious Reader, but I tend to think the same as above: it's draw 3 only if you have a very low curve, which often implies a high risk of getting out-Tempoed and out-Valued (eg I bet a properly adjusted Enrage Warrior can deal with the majority of the Aggro decks above).
I am speaking from a Wild pov, but I guess what is not broken here is fine in Standard too.
Secret Passage is an ok card. It looks busted but it isn't. Because you need a pretty low curve to abuse a 5-card window in 1-turn. Low curve means hyper-Aggro or Kingsbane. Both of these can be contained pretty efficiently, with some techs in case of Weapons. Actually Aggro can be contained both by Control and refined Tempo decks. Because low curve in Rogue is badly statted minions (unlike Warlock, Shaman, DH, and other classes with good early bodies). Compare with The Soularium, which became a serious card only when further synergy was provided (bare draw was not enough). Remember that hyper-Aggro looks always busted on new release.
For similar reasons, I think Glide can be saved, BUT only as long as other DH cards are nerfed (see below). Btw nerfing glide to (5) might be the death of Wild at the hands of Odd DH (which is already solid strong with just minimal card draw). If it needs a nerf, it must be to (6) (and it would be fine, because we don't need these kind of cards in the game, if it is made unplayable, it's just a good thing.
Now, as much as I don't like the existence of Lightning Bloom, I am baffled at the idea of nerfing it, without making it a worse version of Innervate for Druid. Probably nobody would complain, but it'd be silly. I'd take that, if that's gonna be the case. I'm all in against Combo-OTK happening too soon.
Now, for my nerf candidates:
Trueaim Crescent because it generates extra free attacks (as if minions were using Warglaives of Azzinoth) other than a ridiculously efficient comeback opportunity against other Aggro/Tempo. The card needs to cost (2). Nerfing durability stats would be of no help.
Ace Hunter Kreen similar as above. Actually their synergy is monstruous. He needs to cost (4). Nerfing body stats would be of no help.
Mindrender Illucia is just no fun. Having key cards stripped away from hand is just abominable, and doing it for (2) is dirty cheap. This card should cost (3) or even (4).
Sorcerer's Apprentice because the card is far above any standards of efficiency. It should include a "but not below (1)" clause, but since I doubt it's going to happen, I'd be happy enough with just a nerf to (3), to delay bonkers swing turns with Small Spells (I hope this is going to become apparent in Standard to, so as to enforce the need for a nerf).
Lightning Bloom no idea how to nerf it (see above) but yes please nerf.
You can find lethals out of nowhere, but you lose the board too easily, and Reno decks can Control you pretty well. I'm afraid the good ol' Oil/Miracle days are over, forever.
I think the same goes for generic hyper-Aggro.
I'm sure good players can churn some extra winrates from Aggro Rogue, but in general it's too easy to out-Tempo.
PS: Kingsbane rogue is not really dead. You can probably reach legend thanks to the new cards. But it's basically a YOLO deck, very hard to pilot, and very vulnerable to both swarm and Control. I'll eat a shoe™ if it turns out to be any better than t3 in the average meta.
Here's a possible build:
### Reader Kingsbane#
#Class: Rogue
# Format: Wild # # 2x (0) Preparation # 2x (1) Buccaneer # 2x (1) Deadly Poison # 1x (1) Kingsbane # 2x (1) Secret Passage # 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand # 2x (2) Cavern Shinyfinder # 2x (2) Eviscerate # 2x (2) Parachute Brigand # 2x (2) Sap # 2x (2) Voracious Reader # 2x (3) Raiding Party # 2x (4) Dread Corsair # 2x (4) Tinker's Sharpsword Oil # 1x (5) Captain Greenskin # 2x (5) Cutting Class # AAEBAaIHAsgDu+8CDssDzQPUBe4GiAeGCa8QmxXl0QLVjAPpsAOqywPG0QP31AMA # # To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I have just realized that the forced attack from [Hearthstone Card (lunar crescent) Not Found] is free: this means the minion can still attack normally afterwards, if it survives ofc.
Basically a minor version of windfury, board-wide.
You can find lethals out of nowhere, but you lose the board too easily, and Reno decks can Control you pretty well. I'm afraid the good ol' Oil/Miracle days are over, forever.
I think the same goes for generic hyper-Aggro.
I'm sure good players can churn some extra winrates from Aggro Rogue, but in general it's too easy to out-Tempo.
I'm intrigued by Token Odd Druid, using the plethora of new 1-cards: the idea is to make a defensive Tempo deck, hoping that the other Aggro decks (chiefly Odd DH and Rogue, which I can hopefully counter) can crush the rest of the meta for me.
I'd also love to try Big Paladin, mainly because it is the only deck where Turalyon, the Tenured makes sense, but I doubt the deck can be viable, even in Wild.
Additionally I'm intrigued by Spell Damage Mage, possibly in Even version, but not necessarily so. I just love the idea of the synergy between Cram Session and Azure Explorer.
Finally I have to tune my Aggro Reno Paladin for the new meta. I hope I can squeeze High Abbess Alura in the list, but I'm afraid the card is just too slow for the incoming Aggro meta. Probably I'll just chill at D10 trying the other decks, before going for this one for my final ladder rush.
Yeah, Loatheb is possibly more powerful, but my point was that Loatheb is the correct comparison. Much more than Lazul, despite the nearly identical spying effects.
Haven't tried because it's (2) do nothing on the same turn, and no body.
I'll try it out tho. Just few more games with the thief, just to be sure she's not worth her slot. ;p
PS: I may actually try to squeeze in some Secret Package...
In Wild there is always room for Control.
Ofc not any Control, and you can't always expect to smash the meta with a Control deck, but you should always get away with decent winrate, as long as you know your deck and you know your meta (I was able to build a Legend-viable Aggro Reno Paladin by adjusting the concept against the meta, so you can guess what you can do there).
Right now Priest got an additional tool with Mindrender Illucia and, and if I were a Control player I think I'd be drooling at Reno Priest (ft. Raise Dead to double your powerhouses and diminish the constrictions of Highlander) for how versatile it is and the depth in gameplay it can reach.
That said, I think gaming burnout has very little to do with the cyclical support to your favourite playstyle.
I kinda hate Illucia but I can't even be mad at her usage in this deck.
Removed Sap and included 1x Counterfeit Coin (too often I find myself short of mana for swings), and 1x Beneath the Grounds (let's counter those Control Reno decks)
Depending on how the meta evolves, 1x Vilespine Slayer could be replaced with Maiev Shadowsong, Doctor Krastinov, or just faithful Faceless Corruptor.
Well, I built this deck for fun but also trying to make it effective in ladder (this is my typical approach).
It's a revamp to Oil Rogue with a focus to Combo cards (which I deem the best fun and flavor in Rogue). All this weaved around Secret Passage.
If you like, a hybrid between Odd and Kingsbane. D3 atm.
Leeroy is absolutely fine.
I have some playtesting against some meta decks at D5 and it proved fair enough, but no extensive results at higher ranks after the expansion hit (so many ideas to try).
Btw, I just came up with a smart nerf for Lightning Bloom:
REFRESH 2 mana. Overload (2).
That's still a decent tool for some swings, but it doesn't break the Curve anymore. EZ.
Curve breaking ie Ramping should always happen at the expense of some mana or some other serious immediate drawback.
Current quest-based gold system is already quite of a grind.
Having it turned into an xp-based continuum looks pretty at first glance, but it's actually just a worse grind.
I am ok with xp giving cosmetics and perks, but gold should be bound as less as possible on intensive grind.
UNLESS there is an easy enough threshold that can give you a favourable compromise as a reward (similar to D5 in ladder), beyond which you only get cosmetics and perks.
Problem is Mindrender Illucia does much more than giving Control a tip against Combo, as you can steal finishers or key cards from ANY deck you find.
Also, at the moment Illucia is not just giving a chance, she's granting you the power to tear apart any deck based on some key cards, given the right moment to play her.
Mechathunlock almost out of cards > Mindrender Illucia > game over. That's more than just a chance at it.
You could even counter QMage, either stealing their reward, or, in case they are holding the completion, stealing their spell turn right before they are ready to resolve.
Same goes against Druid (steal spells) or any other deck with key cards in hand. Including Aggro, just to say. That's Dirty Rat on steroids.
All of a sudden a Control deck has virtually no vulnerability in the metagame.
If OTK are ridiculous because they can kick in too soon (ie QMage or Druid), then they do deserve a nerf, not a card that can counter anything consistently enough.
Goody Two-Shields is far from OP once the meta knows how to deal with it (basically a double ping) AND Paladin needs strong cards.
Same thing goes for High Abbess Alura.
I mean, it's not like the game lacks single-target removal, and efficient ones too. Or just silence.
As for Secret Passage and Tour Guide, the meta will soon adjust against hyper-Aggro, as with any expansion. In particular, Secret Passage is only abusable with an extremely low curve, which means a really fragile game for Rogue, which has no solid low cost minion to stabilize board. Nerfing the card to (2) as some suggested means making the card unplayable, and unnecessarily so.
I am still unsure about Voracious Reader, but I tend to think the same as above: it's draw 3 only if you have a very low curve, which often implies a high risk of getting out-Tempoed and out-Valued (eg I bet a properly adjusted Enrage Warrior can deal with the majority of the Aggro decks above).
Now, what about Trueaim Crescent and Ace Hunter Kreen, as well as Mindrender Illucia and Sorcerer's Apprentice?
I am speaking from a Wild pov, but I guess what is not broken here is fine in Standard too.
Secret Passage is an ok card. It looks busted but it isn't. Because you need a pretty low curve to abuse a 5-card window in 1-turn. Low curve means hyper-Aggro or Kingsbane. Both of these can be contained pretty efficiently, with some techs in case of Weapons. Actually Aggro can be contained both by Control and refined Tempo decks. Because low curve in Rogue is badly statted minions (unlike Warlock, Shaman, DH, and other classes with good early bodies). Compare with The Soularium, which became a serious card only when further synergy was provided (bare draw was not enough). Remember that hyper-Aggro looks always busted on new release.
For similar reasons, I think Glide can be saved, BUT only as long as other DH cards are nerfed (see below). Btw nerfing glide to (5) might be the death of Wild at the hands of Odd DH (which is already solid strong with just minimal card draw). If it needs a nerf, it must be to (6) (and it would be fine, because we don't need these kind of cards in the game, if it is made unplayable, it's just a good thing.
Now, as much as I don't like the existence of Lightning Bloom, I am baffled at the idea of nerfing it, without making it a worse version of Innervate for Druid. Probably nobody would complain, but it'd be silly. I'd take that, if that's gonna be the case. I'm all in against Combo-OTK happening too soon.
Now, for my nerf candidates:
That's my list for now.
PS: Kingsbane rogue is not really dead. You can probably reach legend thanks to the new cards. But it's basically a YOLO deck, very hard to pilot, and very vulnerable to both swarm and Control. I'll eat a shoe™ if it turns out to be any better than t3 in the average meta.
Here's a possible build:
### Reader Kingsbane#
#Class: Rogue
# Format: Wild
#
# 2x (0) Preparation
# 2x (1) Buccaneer
# 2x (1) Deadly Poison
# 1x (1) Kingsbane
# 2x (1) Secret Passage
# 2x (1) Southsea Deckhand
# 2x (2) Cavern Shinyfinder
# 2x (2) Eviscerate
# 2x (2) Parachute Brigand
# 2x (2) Sap
# 2x (2) Voracious Reader
# 2x (3) Raiding Party
# 2x (4) Dread Corsair
# 2x (4) Tinker's Sharpsword Oil
# 1x (5) Captain Greenskin
# 2x (5) Cutting Class
#
AAEBAaIHAsgDu+8CDssDzQPUBe4GiAeGCa8QmxXl0QLVjAPpsAOqywPG0QP31AMA
#
# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone
I have just realized that the forced attack from [Hearthstone Card (lunar crescent) Not Found] is free: this means the minion can still attack normally afterwards, if it survives ofc.
Basically a minor version of windfury, board-wide.
Or, otherwise said, a reverse Warglaives of Azzinoth.
Faced it in combo with Ace Hunter Kreen is basically game over. While I knew of Kreen already, I didn't realize Crescent is a HUGE comeback tool.
Thank you Blizzard for another expansion of DH making any other Tempo deck look silly in both Standard and Wild...
In Wild, Kingsbane is still inconsistent, despite Secret Passage.
You can find lethals out of nowhere, but you lose the board too easily, and Reno decks can Control you pretty well. I'm afraid the good ol' Oil/Miracle days are over, forever.
I think the same goes for generic hyper-Aggro.
I'm sure good players can churn some extra winrates from Aggro Rogue, but in general it's too easy to out-Tempo.
I'll try Secret Passage in Tempo Thief.
Here's one. I already tested it pre-Scholomance, and it worked to some extent. Not sure now, but with new cards it should be better.
It's a token deck, but more Tempo than pure swarm (which I generally don't like, because they tend to lack comebacks).
Tour Guide is gonna revamp EVERY Odd deck in Wild with the sole exception of Priest and Warrior.
Manafeeder Panthara is going to do the same with Even decks.
Secret Passage is basically the new take at Miracle Rogue, now that powercreep has ruled Gadgetzan Auctioneer out of meta.
The card's actually more exciting than several legendaries in the expansion.
Let me add my Odd Token Druid:
I'm intrigued by Token Odd Druid, using the plethora of new 1-cards: the idea is to make a defensive Tempo deck, hoping that the other Aggro decks (chiefly Odd DH and Rogue, which I can hopefully counter) can crush the rest of the meta for me.
I'd also love to try Big Paladin, mainly because it is the only deck where Turalyon, the Tenured makes sense, but I doubt the deck can be viable, even in Wild.
Additionally I'm intrigued by Spell Damage Mage, possibly in Even version, but not necessarily so. I just love the idea of the synergy between Cram Session and Azure Explorer.
Finally I have to tune my Aggro Reno Paladin for the new meta. I hope I can squeeze High Abbess Alura in the list, but I'm afraid the card is just too slow for the incoming Aggro meta. Probably I'll just chill at D10 trying the other decks, before going for this one for my final ladder rush.
Yeah, Loatheb is possibly more powerful, but my point was that Loatheb is the correct comparison. Much more than Lazul, despite the nearly identical spying effects.