Worse hagatha effect but with better spells as you are mage. Think its good but probably that's it. Could be nice with some burn decks as extra power when you strat to run dry?
Think its its quite good even though scheme might be better. Nice point in wild is that it is really nice vs odd paladin or any other divine shield heavy deck. Definetly potential. Kinda weird tho that they now finally give shaman good board clears but in the same year so they rotate out together. Volcano is almost the only other good AoE
I admit I missed the last part of the earlier post about the decks that go to late game. Still it happens ofter than just with big priest, druid and even lock. Eg warrior, mechathun priest & lock, even and murloc shaman all currently bring me to late game too.
I don't look too much at tierlists so I cant say for sure but if it can be brought to #1 legend I'd wager the problem is more at other players than the deck itself. Also the list mentions it as new variant with hope so maybe there's not enough data?
Still jades are only a part of the cards that get benefit from this card, be it draws, card generation, heals or AoEs. I think you value the midgame jades bit little. Even if lategame jades dont get value vs aggro/midrange the midgame tempo boosts this card gives should. Ability to suddenly get 1 or 2 extra jades is quite big when trying to stabilize. Especially easier vs midrange decks that don't kill you as fast.
Abiity to ramp up tempo is also great vs those combo decks as they might have to spend resources where they dont want to.
The deck you mention is also a corpsetaker based build with almost 0 board presence. No wonder it might lose to aggro if it doesnt challenge the board with minions.
-as a side point that deck hit legend #1, you undermine your own argument that the bc shamans can't work with bringing it up as it clearly has good winrate to get to #1-
Last I checked late game jades are big, big jades have big attack and big attack means they have to be removed or they take big damage? Don't really understand your reasoning there. Having board presence is as good wincon as any. (And jadeshudders run loatheb just to have that similar single finisher)
Jades are good because you can use them throughout the game to challenge the board and thus not lose to minion based aggrodecks as fast -> you get needed answers. With comboshudder decks the problem is not that your deck doesnt have the answer, it's having that answer in your hand when you need it instead of some other cards.
But I quess we're not getting far here. In my opinion pumping 2 jades per card (or more) per turn is value and tempo that can't be matched by many decks. You're free to disagree and rely on stats (as you said from 2 months ago so they might be dated). I'll enjoy this card and the benefits it brings =)
Quess my deck isnt then "shuddrwock shaman" as it deals with those matchups well. Imo reports like that arent the best to picture slower shaman decks as shaman is so versatile and can be built a myriad of ways.
You can run jades and shudderwock and call it a shudderwock shaman but you can have it be anti big priest with transform effects, aggressive midrange deck or anti aggro deck with ton of aoes and healing. All of those decks could be called jadeshudder decks with loatheb shudder finish but the matchups can change drastically depending on other cards.
Atleast for me control shaman has worked well with beating the occasional paladins, hunters, zoo, token druid, aggressive rogue variants and murloc + even shamans. Burn and some mage OTKs decks have still been problem but you hardly can counter everything.
Ofc the winrate isnt 100 or near it, but having a good winrate vs aggro and big priest is quite a good standing point in current wild metagame. Can be wrong about the card but its insta golden craft for me as it gives me brann to use any turn I want and currently those turns come often.
@aliradical that was a problem back in the day but I'd say its quite a bit easier with walking fountain, scheme, volcano, devolve and healing rain. The way I look at it is that once you get this hp every card you draw can be seen as double draw as you get double of their major effect. I'm currently running brann in my shaman list and it hurts me to not use it on so many bcs because I usually combo it with rummaging kobold for near insta win.
^ Even if you run every single jade card available to shaman you still only have 7 summon-a-jade battlecries, and you need to invest 5 battlecries into the quest before you get your reward. I don't think this quest will be very strong with jades for that reason, it seems like far too much setup for not enough payoff.
Well there are tons of ways to gain more. For example rummaging kobold is 9 mana (+2 overload): Summon 1/3, 4x Jades and 2/3 weapon (if you swing the first one) for 1 card + hero power.
Barista Lynchen, Spirit Echo, Fencing coach into next turn shudder, elysiana's cards, bouncers, elementary reaction / discover elementals, bankers, zola all work for the same purpose. Most of these are also BCs which benefit from the hp.
The existence of sludge slurper already means that you have a good chance to trigger the quest without spending too many jade bcs on it.
Ofcourse the card could fail but I see alot of easy synergy with great value. Also as you are running jade spirits and probably walking fountains you could easily add in strong elemental BCs like Kalimos.
Also, to the people who say that this quest is somehow broken in wild, please do elaborate if you don't mind. Shudderwock shaman is meme-tier, as is any other battlecry related shaman deck. Most of them get absolutely slaughtered by aggro and midrange decks. How is this quest going to solve that?
For example any jade based control deck gets enormous boost with this card. The ability to pump out 2 jades per card is really something that shouldnt be underestimated. This hero power gives you too much value for ppl to keep up, even priests with their current metric-shit-ton of wild clears cant AoE all my jades away. What happens when almost every of my jade cards require that AoE answer?
Shaman Control decks can already deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well with healing rain + walking fountain + Devolve, Volcano and Scheme. The main problem tends to be big priest if you dont draw hexes and burn decks.
This card solidifies other matchups while also boosting those 2 particular matchups as you can ramp up the jades and thus threat towards them. True the card doesnt work in those decks you described (necessarily), but there are alot of great battlecries that would love to have brann effect on demand.
It is just the 2 mana element card with the same action wrapped as a hero power? That card didnt see much play, dont think this hero power will be good.
That buffed next bc, not multiple which might be big difference like brann has shown us.
Also having that ability ready every turn for any battlecries is something that cant be comparable to a single card which can be used once and probably needs to be saved for a specific bc.
Last thing is that slower shaman decks dont like to hero power that much anyway after midgame so this is better option for quite a small investment.
Back in un'goro I was so disappointed in the shaman quest as it was not good for typical midrange / control decks.
This the complete opposite and might be too good as others have mentioned. As primarily wild player stuff you can do with jades and this is crazy. Might make elementals good enough.
But I think people tend to forget shamans card draw problems which means you might not have enough battlecries to take advantage of. Lackeys + Cult master sounds good tho.
Think you can run this and hero hagatha too. In the end hagatha gives you alot of crap too so you are not in hurry to play it with this new better hero power. Often for me I feel like Hagatha is detrimental as I have the board and this hero power is good enough that you can wait for better spot to play hagatha.
Atleast it doesnt fit in wild big priest which is a relief. Good csrd in dr priest but wonder if you can make it work in standard
Worse hagatha effect but with better spells as you are mage. Think its good but probably that's it. Could be nice with some burn decks as extra power when you strat to run dry?
Pretty strong in Standard, could maybe work in more aggressive wild decks too but doesn't hit my fancy
26 min with shaman, turned all decks minions to mechwarper and had extra draws ability = easy win
Think its its quite good even though scheme might be better. Nice point in wild is that it is really nice vs odd paladin or any other divine shield heavy deck. Definetly potential. Kinda weird tho that they now finally give shaman good board clears but in the same year so they rotate out together. Volcano is almost the only other good AoE
I admit I missed the last part of the earlier post about the decks that go to late game. Still it happens ofter than just with big priest, druid and even lock. Eg warrior, mechathun priest & lock, even and murloc shaman all currently bring me to late game too.
I don't look too much at tierlists so I cant say for sure but if it can be brought to #1 legend I'd wager the problem is more at other players than the deck itself. Also the list mentions it as new variant with hope so maybe there's not enough data?
Still jades are only a part of the cards that get benefit from this card, be it draws, card generation, heals or AoEs. I think you value the midgame jades bit little. Even if lategame jades dont get value vs aggro/midrange the midgame tempo boosts this card gives should. Ability to suddenly get 1 or 2 extra jades is quite big when trying to stabilize. Especially easier vs midrange decks that don't kill you as fast.
Abiity to ramp up tempo is also great vs those combo decks as they might have to spend resources where they dont want to.
The deck you mention is also a corpsetaker based build with almost 0 board presence. No wonder it might lose to aggro if it doesnt challenge the board with minions.
-as a side point that deck hit legend #1, you undermine your own argument that the bc shamans can't work with bringing it up as it clearly has good winrate to get to #1-
Last I checked late game jades are big, big jades have big attack and big attack means they have to be removed or they take big damage? Don't really understand your reasoning there. Having board presence is as good wincon as any. (And jadeshudders run loatheb just to have that similar single finisher)
Jades are good because you can use them throughout the game to challenge the board and thus not lose to minion based aggrodecks as fast -> you get needed answers. With comboshudder decks the problem is not that your deck doesnt have the answer, it's having that answer in your hand when you need it instead of some other cards.
But I quess we're not getting far here. In my opinion pumping 2 jades per card (or more) per turn is value and tempo that can't be matched by many decks. You're free to disagree and rely on stats (as you said from 2 months ago so they might be dated). I'll enjoy this card and the benefits it brings =)
Quess my deck isnt then "shuddrwock shaman" as it deals with those matchups well. Imo reports like that arent the best to picture slower shaman decks as shaman is so versatile and can be built a myriad of ways.
You can run jades and shudderwock and call it a shudderwock shaman but you can have it be anti big priest with transform effects, aggressive midrange deck or anti aggro deck with ton of aoes and healing. All of those decks could be called jadeshudder decks with loatheb shudder finish but the matchups can change drastically depending on other cards.
Atleast for me control shaman has worked well with beating the occasional paladins, hunters, zoo, token druid, aggressive rogue variants and murloc + even shamans. Burn and some mage OTKs decks have still been problem but you hardly can counter everything.
Ofc the winrate isnt 100 or near it, but having a good winrate vs aggro and big priest is quite a good standing point in current wild metagame. Can be wrong about the card but its insta golden craft for me as it gives me brann to use any turn I want and currently those turns come often.
@aliradical that was a problem back in the day but I'd say its quite a bit easier with walking fountain, scheme, volcano, devolve and healing rain. The way I look at it is that once you get this hp every card you draw can be seen as double draw as you get double of their major effect. I'm currently running brann in my shaman list and it hurts me to not use it on so many bcs because I usually combo it with rummaging kobold for near insta win.
Well there are tons of ways to gain more. For example rummaging kobold is 9 mana (+2 overload): Summon 1/3, 4x Jades and 2/3 weapon (if you swing the first one) for 1 card + hero power.
Barista Lynchen, Spirit Echo, Fencing coach into next turn shudder, elysiana's cards, bouncers, elementary reaction / discover elementals, bankers, zola all work for the same purpose. Most of these are also BCs which benefit from the hp.
The existence of sludge slurper already means that you have a good chance to trigger the quest without spending too many jade bcs on it.
Ofcourse the card could fail but I see alot of easy synergy with great value. Also as you are running jade spirits and probably walking fountains you could easily add in strong elemental BCs like Kalimos.
For example any jade based control deck gets enormous boost with this card. The ability to pump out 2 jades per card is really something that shouldnt be underestimated. This hero power gives you too much value for ppl to keep up, even priests with their current metric-shit-ton of wild clears cant AoE all my jades away. What happens when almost every of my jade cards require that AoE answer?
Shaman Control decks can already deal with aggro and midrange decks quite well with healing rain + walking fountain + Devolve, Volcano and Scheme. The main problem tends to be big priest if you dont draw hexes and burn decks.
This card solidifies other matchups while also boosting those 2 particular matchups as you can ramp up the jades and thus threat towards them. True the card doesnt work in those decks you described (necessarily), but there are alot of great battlecries that would love to have brann effect on demand.
That buffed next bc, not multiple which might be big difference like brann has shown us.
Also having that ability ready every turn for any battlecries is something that cant be comparable to a single card which can be used once and probably needs to be saved for a specific bc.
Last thing is that slower shaman decks dont like to hero power that much anyway after midgame so this is better option for quite a small investment.
Back in un'goro I was so disappointed in the shaman quest as it was not good for typical midrange / control decks.
This the complete opposite and might be too good as others have mentioned. As primarily wild player stuff you can do with jades and this is crazy. Might make elementals good enough.
But I think people tend to forget shamans card draw problems which means you might not have enough battlecries to take advantage of. Lackeys + Cult master sounds good tho.
Think you can run this and hero hagatha too. In the end hagatha gives you alot of crap too so you are not in hurry to play it with this new better hero power. Often for me I feel like Hagatha is detrimental as I have the board and this hero power is good enough that you can wait for better spot to play hagatha.