Neutral anti-Reno tech

  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Swamp 505 992 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    EDIT:


    OR:

    FYI: Casts When Drawn always draws you another card. It never denies card draw. Just look at how Bomb works.

    The idea is to have a neutral, playable but sub-optimal (maybe 4/3 would be better?) anti-Reno tech, that is not a game sealer against Reno, but it can buy precious turns (similar concept to Loatheb). Indeed, the shuffled cards are 1-costed, which means they can be cleared by Skulking Geist.

     

    ALTERNATE, with a drawback for you (maybe this one should be called Nasty Cantrip instead)

    Also notice it cannot prevent an early Zephrys the Great, because of its cost, and it's not an optimal body, nor a value generator for you (unlike Beneath the Grounds). Just a time-buyer against an incoming Highlander card, and barely a decent card anywhere else (similarly to Acidic Swamp Ooze, or Kezan Mystic).

     

    • What do you think?
    • Is the version with enemy 1/1 taunt more balanced and/or fun to encounter? Especially in Wild?
    • Or shuffle just 2x instead of 3x?
    • Maybe 4/3 would be more in-line with a tech card? 
    4
  • Alfi's Avatar Dragon Scholar 340 251 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    Non-duplicate cards are not a problem, especially in standard

    -=alfi=-

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  • UVE's Avatar Uther 245 116 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I guess that the next expansion needs a new neutral counter against highlander decks.

    When K&C was released I used to put The Darkness in my wild decks to counter Renodecks and Spiteful Summoner.

     

    By The Holy Light!

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  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Swamp 505 992 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From UVE

    I guess that the next expansion needs a new neutral counter against highlander decks.

    When K&C was released I used to put The Darkness in my wild decks to counter Renodecks and Spiteful Summoner.

     

    In what kind of decks did you use it? How did it perform on ladder?

    My concern with the darkness is that it is in extreme card, not really fitting as a tech...

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  • Pezman's Avatar Magma Rager 455 409 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I actually like this idea. It would just be an interesting tech card you could throw in if you were facing a lot of highlanders. Not powerful, and not terrible. I think having the cantrips do something would be more interesting, whether it's the suggested 1/1 taunt, or a random 1/1, or random 1 damage, something so that the card does more than just attack highlander synergy. Nice idea!

    "Be excellent to each other." -Bill and Ted

    5 15580 1136 5

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  • Aenarion's Avatar 140 60 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I like the first idea, maybe with a 4/3 body as you suggested. I think it would be Epic if made by Blizzard though.

    Bring back old Warrior Control.

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  • Ethardoth's Avatar E.V.I.L. Dragon 175 141 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I feel that the first version wouls be very strong in general, not just anti-Reno. It potentially denies opponent's draw three times and would be frustrating to play against. I like the summoning version better (with maybe 4/3 statline), but if you really wanted just anti-reno, maybe you could add "Draw a card." to a do nothing card, plus 1 health, or +1 spell damage (since it's a mage, some flavour, also Ogre Magi stats :) )

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  • Painkiller1724's Avatar 155 127 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Ethardoth

    I feel that the first version wouls be very strong in general, not just anti-Reno. It potentially denies opponent's draw three times and would be frustrating to play against. I like the summoning version better (with maybe 4/3 statline), but if you really wanted just anti-reno, maybe you could add "Draw a card." to a do nothing card, plus 1 health, or +1 spell damage (since it's a mage, some flavour, also Ogre Magi stats :) )

    Or maybe shuffle cards in BOTH decks?

    1
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar Swamp 665 1109 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I feel like it's kinda petty to print a card to print a pure hate card that does nothing other than kneecap a specific archetype.

    I'd much prefer a reprint of The Darkness in some form. You know...a card that has its own purpose and isn't specifically restricted to countering a single decktype (while still obviously being designed for that)

    I also don't think a card like this would even see play, mainly because most of the Highlander cards aren't even that much of an issue. You can't just play this on curve and be like "suck it, your deck's unplayable now" because if they draw into 2 scrolls over the course of the game it was a wasted effort.

    You effectively will have to predict at which point they'd want to play their respective Highlander (or Zephrys) which, in most cases will most likely be in an agressive deck that wants to prevent a Reno or Zephrys clear...and I doubt aggressive decks can afford an udnerstatted 4-drop that they actually need to draw into in time to get a benefit out of.

    HIghlander decks are just a bit too consistent at the moment to really be hampered by this...just play Bomb Warrior if you want a counter.

    I tried having fun once.

    It was awful.

    3
  • Ethardoth's Avatar E.V.I.L. Dragon 175 141 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    Well, there are already specific counters to other decks as well. I think it would be an interesting card to exist as an option. Yes, most likely it would be not worthy to run them purely for anti-reno if they are going to be fair and balanced, but the suggested design looks playable in vacuum and more interesting than a lot of cards already printed.

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  • Zwane's Avatar Wizard 260 408 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I would rather have a counter against those upgraded hero powers...like that card that disables the hero powers for both players.

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  • DoubleSummon's Avatar E.V.I.L. Dragon 520 901 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Ethardoth

    I feel that the first version wouls be very strong in general, not just anti-Reno. It potentially denies opponent's draw three times and would be frustrating to play against. I like the summoning version better (with maybe 4/3 statline), but if you really wanted just anti-reno, maybe you could add "Draw a card." to a do nothing card, plus 1 health, or +1 spell damage (since it's a mage, some flavour, also Ogre Magi stats :) )

    Casts when drawn draw an additional card so it doesn't deny drawns.. Just like with Bombs.. 

    I think the card can be saftly be 3 mana 4/3.. 

    Also dedicated counters are boring it's better if it does something else as well. 

    1
  • AliRadicali's Avatar 425 713 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I think I prefer cards where shuffling cards into the enemy deck is actually a benefit on its own rather than a straight up anti-reno design. Think of Beneath the Grounds or The Darkness, or for that matter warrior bombs.

    Now granted, neither of those two cards are particularly good, but the concept in itself is decent: compare to Fal'dorei Strider, which is basically Beneath the Grounds on a 4/4 body.

    I'd much rather have a playable card that happens to be super spicy against Reno decks than one that is basically useless except for hosing reno. For example you could have an overstatted minion (2 mana 3/3, say) that shuffles 3 1/1 hunters into the opponent's deck that get played when drawn, comparable to the 'hunted' cycle from MtG's Ravnica set.

    1
  • Ethardoth's Avatar E.V.I.L. Dragon 175 141 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    Oh, I'm sorry, I never noticed they changed it! It was with draw a card before, thank you for pointing out. Then it is definitely more than fair card, lower mana could work better.

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  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Swamp 505 992 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare

    I feel like it's kinda petty to print a card to print a pure hate card that does nothing other than kneecap a specific archetype.

    I'd much prefer a reprint of The Darkness in some form. You know...a card that has its own purpose and isn't specifically restricted to countering a single decktype (while still obviously being designed for that)

    I also don't think a card like this would even see play, mainly because most of the Highlander cards aren't even that much of an issue. You can't just play this on curve and be like "suck it, your deck's unplayable now" because if they draw into 2 scrolls over the course of the game it was a wasted effort.

    You effectively will have to predict at which point they'd want to play their respective Highlander (or Zephrys) which, in most cases will most likely be in an agressive deck that wants to prevent a Reno or Zephrys clear...and I doubt aggressive decks can afford an udnerstatted 4-drop that they actually need to draw into in time to get a benefit out of.

    HIghlander decks are just a bit too consistent at the moment to really be hampered by this...just play Bomb Warrior if you want a counter.

    I'm not sure of Standard, but the average Reno deck in Wild would be vulnerable to Aggro, without Reno Jackson. Not weak, but vulnerable. They should include more healing in their decks, if such a tech existed.

    Anyway, i wouldn't mind a Neutral Beneath the Grounds on a stick. 

    My idea was a specific tech, because i was afraid that a purposeful card would be too easy to throw in a deck as a tech, while i wanted it to be a choice one has to make, to avoid making Reno decks unplayable.

    And the whole purpose of Neutral, is indeed it was meant as a tech. I didn't mean to counter Highlander, just generating a vulnerability that all decks could decide to equip.

    1
  • Horus's Avatar E.V.I.L. Dragon 680 961 Posts Joined 05/29/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    I thought it was the only purpose of running a pair of Weasel Tunneler, or for class restriction, say a pair of Excavated Evil to counter even synergy and singleton as well.

    “One day, you will be old enough to start reading fairytales again.”

    -1
  • Pullanisu's Avatar Gul'dan 190 100 Posts Joined 06/18/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago

    Just play dirty rat, deathlord or gnome

    Reno Jackson

    Kazakus

    My faves!

    You can beat me but I will still yeet your skeet

    0
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Swamp 505 992 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Pullanisu

    Just play dirty rat, deathlord or gnome

    No, sorry.

    It's a horribly unreliable coinflip that only few decks (namely, Control and/or other Reno decks) can afford to include in their lists.

    That is not a "Neutral Anti-Reno tech". At all.

     

     

    1
  • Pullanisu's Avatar Gul'dan 190 100 Posts Joined 06/18/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From RavenSunHS
    Quote From Pullanisu

    Just play dirty rat, deathlord or gnome

    No, sorry.

    It's a horribly unreliable coinflip that only few decks (namely, Control and/or other Reno decks) can afford to include in their lists.

    That is not a "Neutral Anti-Reno tech". At all.

     

     Not my fault you don't want to use 2 of the best neutral tech cards against Reno in your decks :)

     

    Reno Jackson

    Kazakus

    My faves!

    You can beat me but I will still yeet your skeet

    -3
  • RavenSunHS's Avatar Swamp 505 992 Posts Joined 03/27/2019
    Posted 5 months, 2 weeks ago
    Quote From Pullanisu
    Quote From RavenSunHS
    Quote From Pullanisu

    Just play dirty rat, deathlord or gnome

    No, sorry.

    It's a horribly unreliable coinflip that only few decks (namely, Control and/or other Reno decks) can afford to include in their lists.

    That is not a "Neutral Anti-Reno tech". At all.

     

     Not my fault you don't want to use 2 of the best neutral tech cards against Reno in your decks :)

     

    C'mon, enough with this BS. You are so obviously biased that it's not even funny.

    I made this as a serious thread, open to serious discussion about how such a card as those i proposed (or similar) could be balanced.

    And i repeat, the purpose is NOT to lockdown Renodecks with a card, not more than Loatheb can lockdown Spelldecks.

    If you can't stand to discuss it properly, it's sufficient that you stay away from it. ;)

    1
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