Fleshshaper + Mutate is a problem

  • killanator6000's Avatar 90 12 Posts Joined 07/11/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    stop complaining please...all the whiners and complainers make hearthstone look bad. it's a card game where there's a winner and a loser. you're obviously the loser congrats.

    -6
  • AliRadicali's Avatar 360 524 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    Quote From killanator6000

    stop complaining please...all the whiners and complainers make hearthstone look bad. it's a card game where there's a winner and a loser. you're obviously the loser congrats.

    Buddy, this is a discussion forum. This would be an immensely dull place if people only ever agreed with each other on how awesome the game is.

    And let's not pretend that the game is (or could be) flawless and perfect in every way. There's always room to improve and this is a place for people to point out where improvements could be made.

    No one is forcing you to participate if you feel that having critical faculties and voicing your complaints somehow reflects poorly on the game.

    4
  • Putontheglasses's Avatar 20 2 Posts Joined 09/19/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago

    What reflects poorly on the game is lazy and/or incompetent developers who can’t be bothered to make the game play consistent, fair, and balanced because their player base continues to gladly consume the slop they serve expansion after expansion. People accept subpar crap too often

    -2
  • YJHS2000's Avatar Uther 250 102 Posts Joined 06/03/2019
    Posted 1 month, 4 weeks ago
    Quote From Zwane

    I would say being able to put one single big minion on the board using a two card combo should not be a big deal, since chances of having it early are not that great, and by turn 4 you should be prepared for a big minion (mountain giant anyone?). So honestly I do not understand what's the fuzz about. I think it has to do with the general strength of the shaman quest deck.

    I disagree completely. I can remember maybe a handful of time losing to quest shaman for a reason other than this combo. It makes the deck playable. Just look what's happened to Mage since Conjurer was nerfed. Top played to least played, just like that. This is not much different.

    The problem is that even in the late game this combo is still good, so its that much crazier when it comes on turn 4-5. Compare that to a big Van Cleef which requires playing a whole bunch of cards (not just two) and is usually a waste of cards in the late game. Divine spirit > Inner fire has always been a problem and I will be shocked if one of those cards (probably divine spirit) is not sent to the HOF with next round of cards.

    Communism is just a red herring

    2
  • GerritDeMan's Avatar 145 71 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month ago
    Quote From helenwills

    The eight mana slot has been the sweet spot for evolves and such for ages, but this is probably one of the strongest pools ever. I say probably only because The Lich King is no longer in standard. It's a fair point to raise that Mogu probably would be considerably weaker as a 6 mana 3/3 or 8 mana 4/4 even if it kept the discount mechanic simply because it'd roll into considerably worse minion pools.



    <snip>

    Quote From AliRadicali

    The eight mana slot has been the sweet spot for evolves and such for ages, but this is probably one of the strongest pools ever. I say probably only because The Lich King is no longer in standard. It's a fair point to raise that Mogu probably would be considerably weaker as a 6 mana 3/3 or 8 mana 4/4 even if it kept the discount mechanic simply because it'd roll into considerably worse minion pools.

     

    On a side note I'm convinced Hir'eek costs 8 just to have an absolute dud on 8-mana rolls.

    Did you just copy another person's comment? Also, I'd like to refer to my reply to the original comment on why this is not true.

    ---

    //Sinti: banned the bot and removed the external link from this quote.

    1
  • Avalon's Avatar 350 381 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 1 month ago
    Quote From helenwills

    The eight mana slot has been the sweet spot for evolves and such for ages, but this is probably one of the strongest pools ever. I say probably only because The Lich King is no longer in standard. It's a fair point to raise that Mogu probably would be considerably weaker as a 6 mana 3/3 or 8 mana 4/4 even if it kept the discount mechanic simply because it'd roll into considerably worse minion pools.

    Another solution would be to consider just friendly minions for its discount effect: it will still evolve into an 8 drop, but it will come much later and its cost won't be reduced below 2

    ---

    //Sinti: banned the bot and removed the external link from this quote.

    0
  • iWatchUSleep's Avatar 370 444 Posts Joined 05/28/2019
    Posted 1 month ago
    Quote From GerritDeMan

    Did you just copy another person's comment? Also, I'd like to refer to my reply to the original comment on why this is not true.

    It's a bot, hence the link at the bottom of its post.

    Just report it.

    1
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar Swamp 340 506 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 1 month ago
    Quote From Avalon
    Quote From helenwills

    The eight mana slot has been the sweet spot for evolves and such for ages, but this is probably one of the strongest pools ever. I say probably only because The Lich King is no longer in standard. It's a fair point to raise that Mogu probably would be considerably weaker as a 6 mana 3/3 or 8 mana 4/4 even if it kept the discount mechanic simply because it'd roll into considerably worse minion pools.

    Another solution would be to consider just friendly minions for its discount effect: it will still evolve into an 8 drop, but it will come much later and its cost won't be reduced below 2

    ---

    //Sinti: banned the bot and removed the external link from this quote.

    then you would have to reduce its cost by at least (2) or else it'd never hit the field. Not to mention that would remove it's original purpose of being a strong tempo tool in a token deck that works especially well against other token decks (or just board presence in general). If anything the total cost should go up so it's still a playable card even if you can't maintain a large board presence.

    0
  • AliRadicali's Avatar 360 524 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 1 month ago
    Quote From Avalon
    Quote From helenwills

    The eight mana slot has been the sweet spot for evolves and such for ages, but this is probably one of the strongest pools ever. I say probably only because The Lich King is no longer in standard. It's a fair point to raise that Mogu probably would be considerably weaker as a 6 mana 3/3 or 8 mana 4/4 even if it kept the discount mechanic simply because it'd roll into considerably worse minion pools.

    Another solution would be to consider just friendly minions for its discount effect: it will still evolve into an 8 drop, but it will come much later and its cost won't be reduced below 2

    ---

    //Sinti: banned the bot and removed the external link from this quote.

    If Mogu fleshshaper is to be changed, I'd rather have it keep its functionality as a cheap rusher and nerf the evolve highroll aspect than vice versa. I think the cheesy highroll potential is what makes the card/combo problematic, whereas the discountable rusher aspect is the core thing the card does (by itself).

     

    I'd rather not have the card be nothing more than an evolve target.

    0
  • Zwane's Avatar Wizard 240 304 Posts Joined 06/04/2019
    Posted 1 month ago
    Quote From killanator6000

    stop complaining please...all the whiners and complainers make hearthstone look bad. it's a card game where there's a winner and a loser. you're obviously the loser congrats.

    ROFL we are not complaining about HS but about some specific tiny detail of it which makes our gaming experience one big horror show of continuous losing to the same stupid combo!! And sure we can all start playing the same bullshit so it will be shamanstone until patch/nerf/new expansion but that would not be very interesting

    0
  • AliRadicali's Avatar 360 524 Posts Joined 06/06/2019
    Posted 1 week, 3 days ago

    Necroing this thread just to gloat and feel vindicated:

     

    "I think with Shaman currently, there's some gameplay patterns that we aren't the most happy with, I think when you do have an eight-Mana minion that you evolved [from] a Mogu Fleshshaper on turn four, that's not a healthy gameplay pattern. I think that's going to be a card going into Descent of Dragons that we're definitely going to keep an eye on.

    I think when it comes to some of these effects that cheat Mana and do things like that early on, that's something that we're looking at as a team and we're making sure that these effects aren't ruining your gameplay experience. So, we are definitely aware of it, and we're definitely going to be keeping our eye on a few cards going into the next expansion to see how their power level shakes out." - Alec Dawson

     https://outof.cards/hearthstone/459-mogu-fleshshaper-may-be-too-powerful

     

    Even if they end up not nerfing Mogu, it's just mighty ironic to hear game devs echo the kinds arguments that get you dismissed as a whiny loser by a certain section of the community.

    0
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar Swamp 340 506 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago
    Quote From AliRadicali

    Necroing this thread just to gloat and feel vindicated:

     

    "I think with Shaman currently, there's some gameplay patterns that we aren't the most happy with, I think when you do have an eight-Mana minion that you evolved [from] a Mogu Fleshshaper on turn four, that's not a healthy gameplay pattern. I think that's going to be a card going into Descent of Dragons that we're definitely going to keep an eye on.

    I think when it comes to some of these effects that cheat Mana and do things like that early on, that's something that we're looking at as a team and we're making sure that these effects aren't ruining your gameplay experience. So, we are definitely aware of it, and we're definitely going to be keeping our eye on a few cards going into the next expansion to see how their power level shakes out." - Alec Dawson

     https://outof.cards/hearthstone/459-mogu-fleshshaper-may-be-too-powerful

     

    Even if they end up not nerfing Mogu, it's just mighty ironic to hear game devs echo the kinds arguments that get you dismissed as a whiny loser by a certain section of the community.

    I mean, that's the nature of an argument, some people will disagree until proven wrong. And since that happened now...I guess I win?

    -2
  • Avalon's Avatar 350 381 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From AliRadicali

    Necroing this thread just to gloat and feel vindicated:

     

    "I think with Shaman currently, there's some gameplay patterns that we aren't the most happy with, I think when you do have an eight-Mana minion that you evolved [from] a Mogu Fleshshaper on turn four, that's not a healthy gameplay pattern. I think that's going to be a card going into Descent of Dragons that we're definitely going to keep an eye on.

    I think when it comes to some of these effects that cheat Mana and do things like that early on, that's something that we're looking at as a team and we're making sure that these effects aren't ruining your gameplay experience. So, we are definitely aware of it, and we're definitely going to be keeping our eye on a few cards going into the next expansion to see how their power level shakes out." - Alec Dawson

     https://outof.cards/hearthstone/459-mogu-fleshshaper-may-be-too-powerful

     

    Even if they end up not nerfing Mogu, it's just mighty ironic to hear game devs echo the kinds arguments that get you dismissed as a whiny loser by a certain section of the community.

    I mean, that's the nature of an argument, some people will disagree until proven wrong. And since that happened now...I guess I win?

    Well to be fair we all lost, since we had to endure this situation until now and we will have to see Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate for another 1 month and a half
    1
  • YourPrivateNightmare's Avatar Swamp 340 506 Posts Joined 03/25/2019
    Posted 1 week, 2 days ago
    Quote From Avalon
    Quote From YourPrivateNightmare
    Quote From AliRadicali

    Necroing this thread just to gloat and feel vindicated:

     

    "I think with Shaman currently, there's some gameplay patterns that we aren't the most happy with, I think when you do have an eight-Mana minion that you evolved [from] a Mogu Fleshshaper on turn four, that's not a healthy gameplay pattern. I think that's going to be a card going into Descent of Dragons that we're definitely going to keep an eye on.

    I think when it comes to some of these effects that cheat Mana and do things like that early on, that's something that we're looking at as a team and we're making sure that these effects aren't ruining your gameplay experience. So, we are definitely aware of it, and we're definitely going to be keeping our eye on a few cards going into the next expansion to see how their power level shakes out." - Alec Dawson

     https://outof.cards/hearthstone/459-mogu-fleshshaper-may-be-too-powerful

     

    Even if they end up not nerfing Mogu, it's just mighty ironic to hear game devs echo the kinds arguments that get you dismissed as a whiny loser by a certain section of the community.

    I mean, that's the nature of an argument, some people will disagree until proven wrong. And since that happened now...I guess I win?

    Well to be fair we all lost, since we had to endure this situation until now and we will have to see Mogu Fleshshaper + Mutate for another 1 month and a half

    yeah, but honestly it doesn't really matter that much now because Hare + Evolve is even worse. Really this whole "blast from the past" was kind of stupid idea from the start. At least given the cards they ended up choosing.

    I'm honestly less angry about losing to Shaman right now, because the highrolling BS is more consistent so it doesn't feel like I got cheesed by RNG everytime

    3
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