HS refugee, LoR is fine but where is the fun?

  • pudgelover's Avatar 40 4 Posts Joined 03/24/2022
    Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

    I guess the title should be suggestive enough to sum up the problem I am facing right now. Are there any fun decks to play? The meta so far is basically hearthstone, you either get swarmed by aggro or killed by some stupid combo. Control decks in both games are close to non-existent. I am a huge control/attrition fan when it comes down to card games, but I can't seem to find a single consistent control or to say controlISH deck so far. Darkness feels a lot more like a combo deck rather than control. Also, I feel like the game is lacking a big cards with big reward. I guess there are cards like FTR but this is not a big reward card for 12 mana also, you are either ahead and you slam it down to win, or you cheat it out so you get ahead but if you are behind it simply doesn't matter at all. One of the few fun concepts for me is Purrrfection but, the kitty is just meh when it comes down to finishing games with it, due to stuns and removal. Now, you might say well if there are stuns are removal there should be control decks working right? Not at all. Its good when your opponent is relying on one big ass minion. Karma is prolly one of the few fun cards to play but she is just too slow. So ya, if you can recommend a value/attrition/control deck I'd be happy to give it a try. Maan , I miss highlanders days. Don't get me wrong, the game is good. Its just my own frustration. 

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  • FenrirWulf's Avatar 1005 359 Posts Joined 06/12/2019
    Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

    That's completely fair. The devs specifically designed the game trying to avoid control/attrition style decks. You can evidently see this in almost every single control deck in the past (Ledros, Atrocity, Corina Veraza, Go Hard). They would always have some sort of win condition no matter what. It makes it feel like that every single deck in LoR is a combo deck variant of that archetype when in reality that's just how they're meant to be played.

    The only two control attrition decks that have found a reasonable deck is Anivia and Tahm Soraka decks. Even then you could argue that Tahm Soraka isn't a control/attrition deck but plays a lot like a Midrange deck with a different win condition than hitting face. You could also probably include TF Swain here but I'm not sure hitting face a lot slower counts as true attrition.

    Value on the other hand would have a lot more viability at the moment. You could just slam Bandle City and run their Manifest package alongside any other region you'd want. You could even go Targon as well and run Invokes.

    Maybe something like this would be up to your speed.

    Take my words with a grain of salt. I'm unranked and only play casuals lmao.

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  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 605 652 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 4 months, 4 weeks ago

    The most controlling deck I know of, in this game, is one that uses The Howling Abyss as the wincon. Literally endless value once you drop it. Some lists include early blocker units, like Avarosan Sentry, but you can also just play it with all spells, plus 1 landmark (which is functionally basically a spell as well). The full spells version looks like this. Go Hard means that you can never deck yourself out. Abyss gives value indefinitely. Spells let you kill basically anything. Also has healing.

    This is the closest I can come up with, for what you seem to be asking for. Disclaimer- A deck like this is very hard to pilot in LoR, which is not really meant to support this type of deck. So, don't expect to win a ton. But I think you'll find it fun to play.

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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar Soldier 550 819 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Control attrition you say... I wonder why you don't play why play Magic the Gathering then and make others (including me) eyerolling about your mono black builds. 

    That LoR is not supporting this playstyle is a good thing for quite a number of players and for those it would be less fun to see the likes of universal counterspells, strong discard spells, mana destruction, card-play restricting cards would make it into the game.

    So sorry mate there's no real lockdown deck for you here and I personally hope LoR never turns into this direction :)

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  • minuano28's Avatar Mountain 695 820 Posts Joined 09/10/2020
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    The LOR devs have made it very clear that they want their game to be board and combat focused, pure control deck that focus on locking down or outgrinding your opponent are neither common nor very strong in this game.

    With that being said if you like value oriented deck then you might find this one to your liking:

    https://runeterraccg.com/aphelios-lux-zoe-freshlobster/

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  • pudgelover's Avatar 40 4 Posts Joined 03/24/2022
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    Thanks for the suggestions. For me "value" decks in LoR are not even close to being value decks what I mean by that is the fact that you play a

    Solari Priestess being a 3 mana 2/2 wasting your turn 3 for a random situational card you might not even have the time to play because you are zerged down by aggro and you try to survive 1 more turn is no value. For abyss its either you gamble to play a random champion to have a chance at dealing damage and contesting the board or going for another clear where you waste a turn for your opponent to get a full board next turn or removal is just too expensive to get rid of all and you well .. lose again. For me a board centric game state where rally and breakthrough are huge portion of the meta is a joke and rather bad one. You cannot claim that you want a board centric game state and have units that deal damage over units or they have quick attack. I tried Darkness once again it feels like combo deck, I tried discover .. I have no idea why people are crying over it when its not even good in general its simply RNG that is being useless 70% of the time and you waste a turn for potential reward. Removal is way too expensive or has stupid requirements most of the time. Basically most of the removal in the game is hearthstone execute of some sort. Or , its a weak board clear unless it costs 9+ mana and well, next turn you kind of lose. If you played MtG ( yes I do play MtG and I play it a lot) we have cards like Junji and Blood on the snow, or even Pest Summoning. And still with all the removal you can lose but you stand a chance and in MtG aggro is a whole different beast compared to LoR it hurts wayyyyy more waaaay faster. Truth is I guess LoR is just not my cup of tea I guess. Some of us want to be greedy play epic minions and big dragons that feel rewarding you made it to that point and you used your capacity to survive to that point being at 2-3 hp making a comeback and it feels good. Or playing a highlander deck where you gotta use all your resources to their very maximum or you just lose. Once again thank you for the suggestions I guess the game is just designed to be a fast paced aggro fest. I will still log and do my daily quest trying to enjoy a few games of Karma and some random greedy champion paired with it but once gain this game is obviously not my cup of tea.  

    Best of wishes! 
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  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 605 652 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From pudgelover
    ...you are zerged down by aggro... in MtG aggro is a whole different beast compared to LoR it hurts wayyyyy more waaaay faster. ... Once again thank you for the suggestions I guess the game is just designed to be a fast paced aggro fest.

    I agree, this is clearly not a game for your tastes.

    But I really have to hope that you realize the extreme inconsistencies of the way that you're complaining about the game design of LoR. Such as the one I highlighted here.

    According to direct quotes from your own writing, LoR manages to have aggro that is way too slow ... but also fast. And every deck is aggro as well, unless it's a pathetic attempt to be sub-par control. Best I can figure, based on inferences from what you've said in your posts, you define aggro in LoR as ... basically anything that relies on units to deal damage. Which is probably the worst definition of aggro I've ever seen anyone imply for any game.

    If you took the time to actually understand the classifications in LoR, you would realize that barely any actual aggro decks are even in the meta right now (unless you're playing ranked ladder way down in the iron and bronze area, in which case it IS mostly just aggro ... because new players can't build good decks that aren't aggro). And incidentally, it's pretty clear that you haven't learned the depth of subtlety to how to play control cards in LoR. You should never be in a situation where playing a board wipe results in your opponent refilling immediately. It that happens to you, you are not properly utilizing the "pass turn" mechanic, which forces your opponent to either do nothing, or to develop more units into your board wipe.

    P.S. - I'm not a fan of someone creating a thread that pretends to ask for advice, when the person has, in fact, already completely made up their mind and will not listen seriously to anything helpful that anyone suggests. And despite the fact that you're not listening to suggestions, I'll still offer one last one - don't even bother to keep doing dailies in LoR. You clearly hate the game, so why torture yourself?

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  • TheTriferianGeneral's Avatar Soldier 550 819 Posts Joined 02/10/2020
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    What he said is kinda right: MTG aggro is faster than LoR aggro most of the time because aggro gets fewer time to build up and finsih in mtg.

    With the cards he mentioned he also approved my theory of him being the typical monoblack player (that I am ... not the greatest fan of by the way)

    That he calls removal too expansive also makes sense from a HS/Mtg perspective because there Control often doesn't bother to play units at all and gets along quite well with going full spell control because removal is a lot cheaper (which means most units have to create value immediately or on death to be relevant).

    Where he is wrong imo is when it comes to keywords that give clear attacking benefits such like quick attack or overwhelm because those are necessary to break stalemates and make sense in a board centric game, where combat tricks can deal with these effects.

    Overall I don't think you need to be so harsh with him to have his opinion on things.

    He might be wrong at points but it's not easy for someone coming from other games to understand how LoR is working and how much detph lies within the priority system of the game.

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  • pudgelover's Avatar 40 4 Posts Joined 03/24/2022
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From TheTriferianGeneral

    What he said is kinda right: MTG aggro is faster than LoR aggro most of the time because aggro gets fewer time to build up and finsih in mtg.

    With the cards he mentioned he also approved my theory of him being the typical monoblack player (that I am ... not the greatest fan of by the way)

    That he calls removal too expansive also makes sense from a HS/Mtg perspective because there Control often doesn't bother to play units at all and gets along quite well with going full spell control because removal is a lot cheaper (which means most units have to create value immediately or on death to be relevant).

    Where he is wrong imo is when it comes to keywords that give clear attacking benefits such like quick attack or overwhelm because those are necessary to break stalemates and make sense in a board centric game, where combat tricks can deal with these effects.

    Overall I don't think you need to be so harsh with him to have his opinion on things.

    He might be wrong at points but it's not easy for someone coming from other games to understand how LoR is working and how much detph lies within the priority system of the game.

    I can agree with all said. Yeah, in MtG it's all about impact when we talk about control decks. All and all my view on the game could be wrong, which prolly is and I can't say otherwise because what I know and what I've seen so far is not the greatest data base for comparison tbf. But still, I can enjoy a first win of the day struggling with Karma /Sol or some retarded greedy comp up until I get a better understanding of the game. The game is clearly designed to be a minions clash with combat tricks and you either let it resolve or you interfere so, yeah I guess for some people it's better than trying to play around board clear or big minion with potential to turn the game around. MtG besides MonoBitch as they used to call it back in the days, I enjoy most of Izzet decks being burn control with insane card draw or mill, or good old 2021 Dragon Control. So,ya. As I said LoR is a decent game, lovely animations sometimes a bit too long but hey, its fancy. Design is overall good quality in terms of mechanics and core values of the game when it comes down to interactive gameplay. So, I guess I am on a quest to come up with a greedy 30% win rate at best deck, haha! I get it that some people will react negative to what I said, coming from a different universe where we play broken cards upon broken cards to defeat even more broken cards yeah, playing for board and buffing units will be a bit strange. Watching players shiver and  calculate how much to advance the board state waiting for "Wrath of God" ( Still legal card btw in MtG ) is just other type of fun, but also gives you time and slows down the pace of the game overall because if you overcommit you are kind of done. So,ya. I can't say that I hate the game, or that the game is just aggro, as I said there are combo decks, burn decks, some midrange but ya in general minions royal. So take it with a grain of salt. Also, I do listen to advice and I do take suggestions if they are explained stupid enough for someone like me who is obviously ignorant af. Before I forget, board development in LoR is slower compared to MtG, not that it's slow in LoR.   :) 

    P.S Here is my definition of aggro for ya lad , "aggressive deck which attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing." Just saying. 

    Stay safe, stay sexy and may the Doomskar be with ya!

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  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 605 652 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From pudgelover

    I can agree with all said. Yeah, in MtG it's all about impact when we talk about control decks. All and all my view on the game could be wrong, which prolly is and I can't say otherwise because what I know and what I've seen so far is not the greatest data base for comparison tbf. But still, I can enjoy a first win of the day struggling with Karma /Sol or some retarded greedy comp up until I get a better understanding of the game. The game is clearly designed to be a minions clash with combat tricks and you either let it resolve or you interfere so, yeah I guess for some people it's better than trying to play around board clear or big minion with potential to turn the game around. MtG besides MonoBitch as they used to call it back in the days, I enjoy most of Izzet decks being burn control with insane card draw or mill, or good old 2021 Dragon Control. So,ya. As I said LoR is a decent game, lovely animations sometimes a bit too long but hey, its fancy. Design is overall good quality in terms of mechanics and core values of the game when it comes down to interactive gameplay. So, I guess I am on a quest to come up with a greedy 30% win rate at best deck, haha! I get it that some people will react negative to what I said, coming from a different universe where we play broken cards upon broken cards to defeat even more broken cards yeah, playing for board and buffing units will be a bit strange. Watching players shiver and  calculate how much to advance the board state waiting for "Wrath of God" ( Still legal card btw in MtG ) is just other type of fun, but also gives you time and slows down the pace of the game overall because if you overcommit you are kind of done. So,ya. I can't say that I hate the game, or that the game is just aggro, as I said there are combo decks, burn decks, some midrange but ya in general minions royal. So take it with a grain of salt. Also, I do listen to advice and I do take suggestions if they are explained stupid enough for someone like me who is obviously ignorant af. Before I forget, board development in LoR is slower compared to MtG, not that it's slow in LoR.   :) 

    P.S Here is my definition of aggro for ya lad , "aggressive deck which attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing." Just saying. 

    Stay safe, stay sexy and may the Doomskar be with ya!

    This is actually an excellent response to both my post and Trifarian General's post.

    I officially apologize for the tone of my most recent response above. It was definitely harsher than necessary, and rude besides. So, my apologies for that.

    Back to the original topic, I actually had another thought that hasn't been mentioned yet, in terms of "attrition"-style decks in LoR. Have you investigated Maokai yet? And I don't mean in a deep deck. I mean in a mill deck. They are very niche and barely ever used, but I HAVE seen them.

    Something like this maybe.

    Side note - I have never played MtG, but I did play Eternal for quite a while, which is just about as close as you can get to being a MtG clone without being the same game. Generally in games like Eternal (and probably also MtG) aggro is kinda non-viable unless it's completely broken beyond all imagining. When your opponent can remove your units as fast as you play them, for the same mana/card cost or even 2-for-1 or 3-for-1, then aggro just can't ever get started (again, unless it's absurdly fast). In Eternal, the only viable aggro decks would be winning on turn 3 or 4. I assume it's similar for MtG. But LoR is not designed like those games, so aggro looks different here.

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  • pudgelover's Avatar 40 4 Posts Joined 03/24/2022
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago
    Quote From sto650
    Quote From pudgelover

    I can agree with all said. Yeah, in MtG it's all about impact when we talk about control decks. All and all my view on the game could be wrong, which prolly is and I can't say otherwise because what I know and what I've seen so far is not the greatest data base for comparison tbf. But still, I can enjoy a first win of the day struggling with Karma /Sol or some retarded greedy comp up until I get a better understanding of the game. The game is clearly designed to be a minions clash with combat tricks and you either let it resolve or you interfere so, yeah I guess for some people it's better than trying to play around board clear or big minion with potential to turn the game around. MtG besides MonoBitch as they used to call it back in the days, I enjoy most of Izzet decks being burn control with insane card draw or mill, or good old 2021 Dragon Control. So,ya. As I said LoR is a decent game, lovely animations sometimes a bit too long but hey, its fancy. Design is overall good quality in terms of mechanics and core values of the game when it comes down to interactive gameplay. So, I guess I am on a quest to come up with a greedy 30% win rate at best deck, haha! I get it that some people will react negative to what I said, coming from a different universe where we play broken cards upon broken cards to defeat even more broken cards yeah, playing for board and buffing units will be a bit strange. Watching players shiver and  calculate how much to advance the board state waiting for "Wrath of God" ( Still legal card btw in MtG ) is just other type of fun, but also gives you time and slows down the pace of the game overall because if you overcommit you are kind of done. So,ya. I can't say that I hate the game, or that the game is just aggro, as I said there are combo decks, burn decks, some midrange but ya in general minions royal. So take it with a grain of salt. Also, I do listen to advice and I do take suggestions if they are explained stupid enough for someone like me who is obviously ignorant af. Before I forget, board development in LoR is slower compared to MtG, not that it's slow in LoR.   :) 

    P.S Here is my definition of aggro for ya lad , "aggressive deck which attempts to win the game through persistent, quick damage dealing." Just saying. 

    Stay safe, stay sexy and may the Doomskar be with ya!

    This is actually an excellent response to both my post and Trifarian General's post.

    I officially apologize for the tone of my most recent response above. It was definitely harsher than necessary, and rude besides. So, my apologies for that.

    Back to the original topic, I actually had another thought that hasn't been mentioned yet, in terms of "attrition"-style decks in LoR. Have you investigated Maokai yet? And I don't mean in a deep deck. I mean in a mill deck. They are very niche and barely ever used, but I HAVE seen them.

    Something like this maybe.

    Side note - I have never played MtG, but I did play Eternal for quite a while, which is just about as close as you can get to being a MtG clone without being the same game. Generally in games like Eternal (and probably also MtG) aggro is kinda non-viable unless it's completely broken beyond all imagining. When your opponent can remove your units as fast as you play them, for the same mana/card cost or even 2-for-1 or 3-for-1, then aggro just can't ever get started (again, unless it's absurdly fast). In Eternal, the only viable aggro decks would be winning on turn 3 or 4. I assume it's similar for MtG. But LoR is not designed like those games, so aggro looks different here.

    It's all good, I might have rubbed it the wrong way with poor explanation in my post as well. I've played Eternal for quite some time as well, was a big fan of Big Combrei with Sandstorm Titans and Harsh Rule being just my all time favorite cards as well as Marshal and Siraf, it fitted my greed personality so good and it felt amazing. MtG and Eternal do have a lot of things in common ( mana flood ) being one of them, the pain feels the same in both games. And in Eternal as well as MtG mono red was the end it pre turn 4 or get wrecked by crazy aoe coming form a minion as a battlecry I don't remember the 4-5 blue or purple flyer that dealt 1 to all enemy minions, or just tons of healing. I have just 1 copy of Mao but I might save up and try to get this deck into working order, I got lucky and pulled 2 copies of Naut so I did try deep it feels good, you stall the game you wait and you hit big but from what I read and saw deep is not doing that great atm. I am trying to play some Purrfection decks I saw but the kitty is just too inconsistent even tho it feels great when you hit it for 30 damage. I don't know about Zoe as a champion it seems like she can fit my style cheap, effective and it can bring some benefits also I was looking at Nami for some reason she seem like a fun combo/controlish champion to play. I will totally try the Maokai deck once I get a bit more materials to craft it! I was wondering if I can work around something with 1 copy of Zoe and 2 copies of Nami to my name, would be happy about it! So, once again my frustration as a newcomer lead to poor reasoning so it was normal for ya to react this way! 

    Stay safe, stay sexy and may silverblade-menace be with ya

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  • sto650's Avatar Santa Braum 605 652 Posts Joined 03/30/2019
    Posted 4 months, 3 weeks ago

    You can totally mess around with Deep if you want, as long as you are OK with losing some games.

    As for getting a couple copies of Maokai, as long as you get your weekly vault to level 10, you will have two champion wildcards in two weeks, and that will finish off your 3 copies.

    By the way, in that mill deck, the Ferros Financier can fetch you some needed tools, such as Trueshot Barrage, The Ruination, more copies of Vengeance, or even Atrocity if you have a big Viego on the board.

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