Crafting BEFORE gives me more chances to drop in packs some legendaries I'd like to try, but I wouldn't dare to craft.
Basically, that way I end up with some less dust, but more legendary cards to toy around.
So you're consciously using a non optimal strategy in order not to feel bad about having some niche legendaries in your collection? I mean, I'd still prefer to maximize my chances and get the most out of my dust, but if that makes you feel better I'm no one to criticize you.
Frizz Kindleroost (less clearly than the two above, but still a quite important card that anyone should have)
I will realistically just get two or maybe three cards from this list, so I guess I'll just craft whatever I won't find from the last three and then see what I'll be able to play. To be honest I think Saviour of Uldum has better legendaries overall.
You also have to "weigh" the Legendaries, not only count them.
Take for example Lady in White and Chameleos: this is what Priest got after last year's rotation, but they haven't seen competitive play yet. You can make this reasoning with "good" classes as well (Duskfallen Aviana and Splintergraft for Druid), but it leads to the conclusion that a class' strength is not determined by the number of Legendaries available (before Doom in the tomb, Combo Priest dominated the meta with 2 legendaries, 2 epics and all commons, rares and basics), but rather the quality of a set overall.
Rogue has 3 Legendaries, but it may not have a remarkable spot in the meta if some conditions are met, whereas Mage may find itself a place.
Don't get me wrong, we've all been waiting for a card with this effect: too bad that it comes when Odd Warrior is not a thing in Standard or Wild anymore (R.I.P. Infinite Armor Druid 2019-2019 no one will miss you).
To be fair though, this card is really bad, and by that I mean that you wouldn't run it in your deck "just in case I face a Warrior or a Druid": it's still a 5 mana 5/5 that requires you a slot in your list and a turn to be played. If you need it that badly (especially now that Tank Up! is no harm) it means that your aggro gameplan isn't going that well. And I'm sure that the Devs balanced Platebreaker to be this way.
On the other side, I think this card is juicy for Combo decks that have limited reach. Imagine for example the Mind Blast Priest vs Odd Warrior matchup: it was a solid 90% win for the latter, right? Anduin's maximum reach was around 30 damage split in two turns and required Alexstrasza's setup, but Odd Warrior was able to stack so much armor that it was almost impossible to kill. Now imagine such a scenario but with Platebreaker: since Odd Warrior can't deal pressure at all, you can easily draw all your deck and set up your combo in the best way possible. It doesn't matter how much armor your opponent has gained through the match, they're suddenly in range.
That being said, I think this card will ever see play in Standard if Warrior will manage to build a strong Control list, but since Garrosh has got so many Tempo tools, I guess Platebreaker will see little play in the nearest future. Cool card, wrong meta (perhaps).
I really expected this to be a 1 drop, probably because of the cute art. The 3 mana slot for Dragon decks is not very crowded (just Bronze Herald, Brightwing and Dragonrider Talritha), so it should see decent amount of play.
Lifestal is really nasty: a big up to an already good minion
Mindflayer Kaahrj - I'm not a grammar nazi that cries over small things like text inconsintecies (see how "three" is written in Dragon Soul and Chenvaala, which caused a thread on reddit to even get an award), but for the first time in a while I struggled at understanding this minion's effect so much that I had to watch the video. Other than that, you want to copy a good minion, which means that your opponent's board needs not to be clear (otherwise it would just be a vanilla 3 mana 3/3), but most of all you should combine it with a removal: if you're against a King Krush your first goal is to stop the SMOrc. Seems cool for the memes but not really reliable. 2/5
Chronobreaker - let's be honest: if it were a battlecry or a taunt minion it would have been totally oppressive and unbalanced (and you're hearing it from a guy who LOVED crushing aggro with Duskbreaker back in the day). I think this is correct way to see it: when Chronobreaker is played it gives your opponent the same feeling of despair caused by Flame Ward. You know it's there, you know it's coming, but how should you behave? Should you ignore it? Should you play around it? Should you play into it and restart the board? Of course it's vulnerable to Silence, but it's still a 4/5 for 5 mana, which isn't great but not bad either. Moreover, it's a Dragon and most of the times you'd like to receive it from Galakrond's Wit 3/5
It could be used in a heavy deck like Big Paladin, but it would screw up both Duel! and Blatant Decoy, so I don't think the pros are higher than the cons, which is a shame.
Judging for the art, I really hoped this was a Priest epic/legendary (together with Murozond), but... heh...
Well yes no one can say that you're wrong: the Devs incredibly missed that interaction (it wasn't easy to find it, but damn it's their job right?). However, this time the discount effect hits a WHOLE expansion built around a tribe tag: there's not way there wouldn't see it coming.
Yeah but there are quite a few differences: first of all, Lady in White is not a Neutral card. I'm not saying it would have seen play if it were available for all classes, but it would have had 9 nine shots instead of one.
Secondly, Lady in White needs you to build your deck with a pretty restrictive condition: in other words, you can't run minions with an aggressive stat line, which means that if you don't draw her you won't be able to play your deck for the reason you built it.
In Frizz Kindleroost's case you have a non-tempo-loss 4 drop (6 mana 5/5 is generally bad, while 4 mana 5/4 is vanilla-wise decent) whose only condition is "put some dragons in your deck".
Maybe you're right and maybe we're overestimating this card, but the comparison with Lady in White isn't really appropriate.
At first I was like "there's no way they printed this card: it's totally broken and it's not even a tempo loss since it's a 5/4".
Then I read that the effect would apply only to Dragons in the deck and my opinion changed a bit: I still think this card is really good and might be polarizing for the next metas, but at least it doesn't effect minions in hand. Imagine handbuffs like Glowstone Technician or Dragon Speaker right after this card: it would lead to an insane followup turn that may break most of the games.
I think that I would normally put a 1 mana discount of this card, but since they put 2 it means that
they really want dragons to be a thing
they tested it and they don't think it will lead to dumb shit consistently
So you'd put this in your deck specifically for the cases you're behind? That seems sketchy, not gonna lie: consider that Quest Shaman is a board-dependent deck, so if you opponent manages to gain control of the board you are almost done. I think it's safe to say that you can't afford using niche cards for what-if scenarios without considerably weakening yourself. If you want to Hero Power + Nithogg then it would mean that you have at least 5 empty slots on your side of the table, which is a good indicator that you're not gonna win that match soon (or ever). Moreover, I think in that case you'd want to regain control of the board, not going for a value that may (and then you'd be in a good spot) or may not come (and then you'd been doomed since you wasted an entire turn without setting a valid threat).
If you just want to comeback, a board full of 0/3 tokens that do nothing if they die is not what you're looking for at all: in that case Heart of Vir'naal + Explodinator would arguably be better, since you'd deal 8 damage in the meantime. But since this combo has never seen play because it's clearly bad, I wonder how this new one will be any different. Ok, these eggs die by themselves, but since they don't have a deathrattle then your opponent will be a lot more incentivized to use Hellfire, Mass Dispel, Plague of Death or Earthquake without having a drawback. and it would be a positive mana trade most of the times.
"If your opponent can immediately deal 5 damage once and 3 damage twice by turn 6, he's the one ahead and Nithogg is a good way to buy you some time, at least"
Killing Nithogg is not your opponent's priority since, by itself, it's an understatted 6 drop not really worth to be bounced back (let's be honest, there are far better Battlecries that you'd want back in your hand). You can just kill both the eggs in order not to face a possible 4/12 on turn 7 and using your whole mana to develop your board and maybe set up a taunt (Zilliax?) to tank that 5/5. Nithogg is a tempo loss card (like Swampqueen Hagatha) in a class with Heart of Vir'naal: if you really want to buy some time then you should play tempo, not value. Even if you consider it as a 6 mana 5/5 heal 6, it's just a slightly better Guardian of Kings, which has never seen play outside of unfortunate Zephrys the Great picks.
"It's more likely that at least one of the three bodies survives, and that's pretty good value for 6 mana"
Well if you want some sticky minions then you'd just play something on the line of Cairne Bloodhoof or Khartut Defender. If you just want something to live in order to soak up some damage you should choose something that has taunt of that is really worth to be killed, not a vanilla 5/5 and some 0 attack tokens.
I really think this card is not good nor in a vacuum neither in a meta environment. But don't get me wrong: you can still play with it and have some fun, but don't expect it to be a 4 (or even a 3) star card.
Well, given the general powercreep of the set, Bandersmosh and Nithogg as legendaries really help to tone down a bit Shaman as a whole.
We still have to see most of Thrall's cards, but I think it's safe to say that Quest Shaman will still be top tier with the difference that this time the other classes will have more ways to deal with that madness.
Now let's hope to get the last Galakrond's reveal pretty soon
So you're consciously using a non optimal strategy in order not to feel bad about having some niche legendaries in your collection?
I mean, I'd still prefer to maximize my chances and get the most out of my dust, but if that makes you feel better I'm no one to criticize you.
So it's true that no matter what Blizzard does, they'll never be able to get everyone's consent.
People like you that complain even about stuff that we has been asked for years is the reason we don't deserve anything at all.
I really don't get this: unless you're crafting those cards golden there's no reason for you to do it before the pack opening.
For what concerns me, there are a few legendaries in this expansion that are a must have or that intrigue me:
I will realistically just get two or maybe three cards from this list, so I guess I'll just craft whatever I won't find from the last three and then see what I'll be able to play. To be honest I think Saviour of Uldum has better legendaries overall.
You also have to "weigh" the Legendaries, not only count them.
Take for example Lady in White and Chameleos: this is what Priest got after last year's rotation, but they haven't seen competitive play yet.
You can make this reasoning with "good" classes as well (Duskfallen Aviana and Splintergraft for Druid), but it leads to the conclusion that a class' strength is not determined by the number of Legendaries available (before Doom in the tomb, Combo Priest dominated the meta with 2 legendaries, 2 epics and all commons, rares and basics), but rather the quality of a set overall.
Rogue has 3 Legendaries, but it may not have a remarkable spot in the meta if some conditions are met, whereas Mage may find itself a place.
This is totally not a matter of fairness.
Oh God you just game me PTSD
I think Dendrologist is a really sweet card, too bad Treants are bad overall
That is part of the upside my friend
PLEASE READ TIL THE END
Don't get me wrong, we've all been waiting for a card with this effect: too bad that it comes when Odd Warrior is not a thing in Standard or Wild anymore (R.I.P. Infinite Armor Druid 2019-2019 no one will miss you).
To be fair though, this card is really bad, and by that I mean that you wouldn't run it in your deck "just in case I face a Warrior or a Druid": it's still a 5 mana 5/5 that requires you a slot in your list and a turn to be played. If you need it that badly (especially now that Tank Up! is no harm) it means that your aggro gameplan isn't going that well. And I'm sure that the Devs balanced Platebreaker to be this way.
On the other side, I think this card is juicy for Combo decks that have limited reach. Imagine for example the Mind Blast Priest vs Odd Warrior matchup: it was a solid 90% win for the latter, right? Anduin's maximum reach was around 30 damage split in two turns and required Alexstrasza's setup, but Odd Warrior was able to stack so much armor that it was almost impossible to kill. Now imagine such a scenario but with Platebreaker: since Odd Warrior can't deal pressure at all, you can easily draw all your deck and set up your combo in the best way possible. It doesn't matter how much armor your opponent has gained through the match, they're suddenly in range.
That being said, I think this card will ever see play in Standard if Warrior will manage to build a strong Control list, but since Garrosh has got so many Tempo tools, I guess Platebreaker will see little play in the nearest future. Cool card, wrong meta (perhaps).
I really expected this to be a 1 drop, probably because of the cute art.
The 3 mana slot for Dragon decks is not very crowded (just Bronze Herald, Brightwing and Dragonrider Talritha), so it should see decent amount of play.
Lifestal is really nasty: a big up to an already good minion
Mindflayer Kaahrj - I'm not a grammar nazi that cries over small things like text inconsintecies (see how "three" is written in Dragon Soul and Chenvaala, which caused a thread on reddit to even get an award), but for the first time in a while I struggled at understanding this minion's effect so much that I had to watch the video. Other than that, you want to copy a good minion, which means that your opponent's board needs not to be clear (otherwise it would just be a vanilla 3 mana 3/3), but most of all you should combine it with a removal: if you're against a King Krush your first goal is to stop the SMOrc. Seems cool for the memes but not really reliable. 2/5
Chronobreaker - let's be honest: if it were a battlecry or a taunt minion it would have been totally oppressive and unbalanced (and you're hearing it from a guy who LOVED crushing aggro with Duskbreaker back in the day). I think this is correct way to see it: when Chronobreaker is played it gives your opponent the same feeling of despair caused by Flame Ward. You know it's there, you know it's coming, but how should you behave? Should you ignore it? Should you play around it? Should you play into it and restart the board? Of course it's vulnerable to Silence, but it's still a 4/5 for 5 mana, which isn't great but not bad either. Moreover, it's a Dragon and most of the times you'd like to receive it from Galakrond's Wit 3/5
Wait I don't get a thing: why is Countess Ashmore counted as part of the blue dragonflight?
Edit: nevermind, I kept reading and answered myself
Cool and funny effect but rather unreliable.
It could be used in a heavy deck like Big Paladin, but it would screw up both Duel! and Blatant Decoy, so I don't think the pros are higher than the cons, which is a shame.
Judging for the art, I really hoped this was a Priest epic/legendary (together with Murozond), but... heh...
2/5 fun but not competitive
I mean, Lifedrinker describes the current ladder situation pretty accurately
I prefer to dug my head in the sand and not think about those conclusions, because we both now the answer.
I just want to hope that they really thought it out this time.
Well yes no one can say that you're wrong: the Devs incredibly missed that interaction (it wasn't easy to find it, but damn it's their job right?).
However, this time the discount effect hits a WHOLE expansion built around a tribe tag: there's not way there wouldn't see it coming.
Yeah but there are quite a few differences: first of all, Lady in White is not a Neutral card. I'm not saying it would have seen play if it were available for all classes, but it would have had 9 nine shots instead of one.
Secondly, Lady in White needs you to build your deck with a pretty restrictive condition: in other words, you can't run minions with an aggressive stat line, which means that if you don't draw her you won't be able to play your deck for the reason you built it.
In Frizz Kindleroost's case you have a non-tempo-loss 4 drop (6 mana 5/5 is generally bad, while 4 mana 5/4 is vanilla-wise decent) whose only condition is "put some dragons in your deck".
Maybe you're right and maybe we're overestimating this card, but the comparison with Lady in White isn't really appropriate.
At first I was like "there's no way they printed this card: it's totally broken and it's not even a tempo loss since it's a 5/4".
Then I read that the effect would apply only to Dragons in the deck and my opinion changed a bit: I still think this card is really good and might be polarizing for the next metas, but at least it doesn't effect minions in hand.
Imagine handbuffs like Glowstone Technician or Dragon Speaker right after this card: it would lead to an insane followup turn that may break most of the games.
I think that I would normally put a 1 mana discount of this card, but since they put 2 it means that
Yeah I really hope I'm overestimating this card
So you'd put this in your deck specifically for the cases you're behind? That seems sketchy, not gonna lie: consider that Quest Shaman is a board-dependent deck, so if you opponent manages to gain control of the board you are almost done. I think it's safe to say that you can't afford using niche cards for what-if scenarios without considerably weakening yourself. If you want to Hero Power + Nithogg then it would mean that you have at least 5 empty slots on your side of the table, which is a good indicator that you're not gonna win that match soon (or ever). Moreover, I think in that case you'd want to regain control of the board, not going for a value that may (and then you'd be in a good spot) or may not come (and then you'd been doomed since you wasted an entire turn without setting a valid threat).
If you just want to comeback, a board full of 0/3 tokens that do nothing if they die is not what you're looking for at all: in that case Heart of Vir'naal + Explodinator would arguably be better, since you'd deal 8 damage in the meantime. But since this combo has never seen play because it's clearly bad, I wonder how this new one will be any different.
Ok, these eggs die by themselves, but since they don't have a deathrattle then your opponent will be a lot more incentivized to use Hellfire, Mass Dispel, Plague of Death or Earthquake without having a drawback. and it would be a positive mana trade most of the times.
"If your opponent can immediately deal 5 damage once and 3 damage twice by turn 6, he's the one ahead and Nithogg is a good way to buy you some time, at least"
Killing Nithogg is not your opponent's priority since, by itself, it's an understatted 6 drop not really worth to be bounced back (let's be honest, there are far better Battlecries that you'd want back in your hand). You can just kill both the eggs in order not to face a possible 4/12 on turn 7 and using your whole mana to develop your board and maybe set up a taunt (Zilliax?) to tank that 5/5.
Nithogg is a tempo loss card (like Swampqueen Hagatha) in a class with Heart of Vir'naal: if you really want to buy some time then you should play tempo, not value. Even if you consider it as a 6 mana 5/5 heal 6, it's just a slightly better Guardian of Kings, which has never seen play outside of unfortunate Zephrys the Great picks.
"It's more likely that at least one of the three bodies survives, and that's pretty good value for 6 mana"
Well if you want some sticky minions then you'd just play something on the line of Cairne Bloodhoof or Khartut Defender. If you just want something to live in order to soak up some damage you should choose something that has taunt of that is really worth to be killed, not a vanilla 5/5 and some 0 attack tokens.
I really think this card is not good nor in a vacuum neither in a meta environment. But don't get me wrong: you can still play with it and have some fun, but don't expect it to be a 4 (or even a 3) star card.
Well, given the general powercreep of the set, Bandersmosh and Nithogg as legendaries really help to tone down a bit Shaman as a whole.
We still have to see most of Thrall's cards, but I think it's safe to say that Quest Shaman will still be top tier with the difference that this time the other classes will have more ways to deal with that madness.
Now let's hope to get the last Galakrond's reveal pretty soon