Shadows has been busy so I haven't gotten a totally-official ruling, meaning I'm gonna go ahead and post this anyway:
Would you say this counts; yay or nay? I think it's a cool card because you can play it straight-up with Wildheart Guff, or "combo" with Pathmaker and/or Pride Seeker. And, of course, you can simply pay the base amount for a slightly-cheaper The Forest's Aid, meaning it's not totally useless if you generate the card outside the ideal use-case.
If the opinion of the theme-suggester matters, I’d be inclined to say it doesn’t count unfortunately. I pictured the card as actually raising the cost of cards and turning them red, not having the option to spend additional mana. By the way, I also didn’t mean for cards that raise costs in both sides to count, a lá Mana Wraith
Feedback (so far includes: @linkblade91, @Wailor):
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@linkblade91
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It does seem a little polarizing, too punishing for decks that rely on their HPs while not very useful against decks that don’t. One thing that could help is if the requirement itself didn’t have to do with the HP: that way HP decks could at least try to play around the secret while non-HP decks would be penalized for something they do more often. Also, I think the "do nothing" part shouldn’t have a period inside the hyphens? Not sure.
@Wailor
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Interesting. It seems to escape a bit from the original intent of the prompt as something that affects the opponent in some way, but intriguing idea nonetheless. Does using the opponent’s HP count as them using it? (For Inspire effects, Jan’alai etc.)
Alright, just a heads up: I’m no longer updating the leaderboard on the first page, since I’m not really active on OoC or Hearthstone related stuff anymore. I believe I stopped updating at page 130, but if anyone wants to fact-check me to keep the leaderboard accurate they’re welcome to do so. Fair warning though, there’s a lot of pages to check lol
I’m glad this thread really took off and is one of the longest ones in OoC, it’s been real!
@DestroyerR In fairness, you can test this out by playing Unseen Saboteur against someone with a Discover-spell in their hand. I assume it will work the way you want it to, but I guess my ultimate point is that you shouldn't have to assume what the card does in that situation. Unseen Saboteur specifies that randomness will come into play, and yours does not.
My point is that A) Discovering isn’t targeting, so the “targets are random” part isn’t relevant, B) even on cards that don’t specify randomness, like Lynessa, Discover effects also behave this way. At this point it’s a pretty well-known interaction
How do you actualy trigger discover on opponent's turn? Imo casting a random spell on opponent's turn doesn''t count, because these always have random targets, and I always interpreted discover as targeting in that case, and I do not think there's a card in game which say that you actualy discover, or do any other targeted effect, with possibility of triggering on opponent's turn.
Not trying to disregard any idea, but I think that's already 3rd custom card I saw which would allow to make choices on enemy turn, and people always say that it's ok, targets would be random, while there is no effect in game on which would this be biased as far as I know, but maybe I don't remember some interactions.
Also, sorry for inactivity, I am, like, in a very busy and stressful situation right now, so I'm just too tired to think about custom stuff, and that also kinda takes away motivation to provide feedback to others.
The base for this mechanic is, as you said, the Discover spells cast on your opponent’s turn. I don’t see why that wouldn’t be a proof of mechanics: Discovering isn’t targeting, and there are plenty of cards that don’t cast randomly (Lynessa Sunsorrow for instance) and Discover effects are still resolved randomly
CQK — -1 star for balance (too easily broken with Legendaries IMO), -1 star for idea (I mean… a Highlander card that cancels the Highlander part of the deck? That’s just… idk, unfitting), so 3/5
linkblade91
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Thunderfury — -1(?) star for idea (Rush Shaman? Sure, I suppose it works… the effect is just not very interesting to me for some reason), so 4-5/5
Thunderfury II — -1 star for balance (as you said, there’s a LOT of Nature spells in Shaman. A Battlecry that lets you cast all of them twice permanently… that’s bound to be broken), so 4/5
Thunderfury III - 5/5, easily best iteration. Also gives this an actual purpose as a weapon rather than just being a minion like all other Highlanders
grumpymonk
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CF — -1 star for aesthetics (the majority of cards referencing your hero have it as “hero”, not “Hero” like this one), -1 star for idea (not very creative if I’m being honest. Just giving your hero a permanent keyword… meh), so 3/5
AL — 5/5. Neat! Love the idea behind this one, like a general calling his armies. Almost like a better Varian, but different enough to not be a simple powercreep
anchorm4n
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Alandien — -1 star for idea (as said with grumpymonk’s card, the idea is… meh. It’s admittedly a little more elaborate, but still pretty tame imo), so 4/5
Demonxz95
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SR — 5/5, awesome flavor, aesthetics and balanced! (Probably, idk)
Kingslayers — I like the first version best. As you said, easier to balance, and the idea is already interesting and unique enough. 5/5
P.S. imagine using non-custom watermark LUL
Nirast
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HoT — -1 star for aesthetics (“from your deck” is no longer used), -1 star for idea (Overload part is pretty redundant after the massive downside of being Highlander, and makes the effect needlessly more complicated), so 3/5
Ilphelkiir
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ZtV — -2 stars for balance (it just obliterates every token deck on turn 5… VERY volatile matchups), so 3/5
In response to feedback on Bataak: As Wailor said, Discover is already established to pick a random option on your opponent’s turn, so there’s no real problem here and you just end up drawing a random card as normal. Also, forgot to mention: if you no longer have a certain type of card in your deck, that option will disappear (so if you have no minions, the “minion!” option will no longer appear)
If the opinion of the theme-suggester matters, I’d be inclined to say it doesn’t count unfortunately. I pictured the card as actually raising the cost of cards and turning them red, not having the option to spend additional mana. By the way, I also didn’t mean for cards that raise costs in both sides to count, a lá Mana Wraith
How do you balance this?
New idea:
EDIT: Fixed according to @AeroJulwin’s feedback
Thanks!
@Demonxz95 won’t be happy, but…
Simple card.
Feedback (so far includes: @linkblade91, @Wailor):
@linkblade91
It does seem a little polarizing, too punishing for decks that rely on their HPs while not very useful against decks that don’t. One thing that could help is if the requirement itself didn’t have to do with the HP: that way HP decks could at least try to play around the secret while non-HP decks would be penalized for something they do more often. Also, I think the "do nothing" part shouldn’t have a period inside the hyphens? Not sure.
@Wailor
Interesting. It seems to escape a bit from the original intent of the prompt as something that affects the opponent in some way, but intriguing idea nonetheless. Does using the opponent’s HP count as them using it? (For Inspire effects, Jan’alai etc.)
Alright, just a heads up: I’m no longer updating the leaderboard on the first page, since I’m not really active on OoC or Hearthstone related stuff anymore. I believe I stopped updating at page 130, but if anyone wants to fact-check me to keep the leaderboard accurate they’re welcome to do so. Fair warning though, there’s a lot of pages to check lol
I’m glad this thread really took off and is one of the longest ones in OoC, it’s been real!
No one can say Leeroy doesn’t learn from mistakes!
This doesn’t count mulligan draws ofc. Feedback later maybe
Feedback later, maybe
EDIT: Already a card LMAAAAAAO
My point is that A) Discovering isn’t targeting, so the “targets are random” part isn’t relevant, B) even on cards that don’t specify randomness, like Lynessa, Discover effects also behave this way. At this point it’s a pretty well-known interaction
The base for this mechanic is, as you said, the Discover spells cast on your opponent’s turn. I don’t see why that wouldn’t be a proof of mechanics: Discovering isn’t targeting, and there are plenty of cards that don’t cast randomly (Lynessa Sunsorrow for instance) and Discover effects are still resolved randomly
Magma Rager?
Feedback:
linkblade91
Thunderfury II — -1 star for balance (as you said, there’s a LOT of Nature spells in Shaman. A Battlecry that lets you cast all of them twice permanently… that’s bound to be broken), so 4/5
Thunderfury III - 5/5, easily best iteration. Also gives this an actual purpose as a weapon rather than just being a minion like all other Highlanders
grumpymonk
AL — 5/5. Neat! Love the idea behind this one, like a general calling his armies. Almost like a better Varian, but different enough to not be a simple powercreep
anchorm4n
Demonxz95
Kingslayers — I like the first version best. As you said, easier to balance, and the idea is already interesting and unique enough. 5/5
P.S. imagine using non-custom watermark LUL
Nirast
Ilphelkiir
In response to feedback on Bataak: As Wailor said, Discover is already established to pick a random option on your opponent’s turn, so there’s no real problem here and you just end up drawing a random card as normal. Also, forgot to mention: if you no longer have a certain type of card in your deck, that option will disappear (so if you have no minions, the “minion!” option will no longer appear)
Oof
Eyyy thanks :)
Just pretend I skipped, couldn’t think of a good riddle
As for the current one, Ragnaros the Firelord?
“He never uses the same trick twice… but sometimes he will, just to keep you on your toes.”
Thoughts?
Spiked Hogrider
Forgot to submit before the deadline D:
was waiting for the “less than 24 hours to submit” message, lesson learned I guess
Feedback later maybe