Well after playing Corina, I feel like I can safely say the burn in this game is over the top. While I agree from past experience control decks do generally beat aggro, the burn deck that is being used right now I feel falls into it's own catagory. Unless I draw extremely well, it's a very big toss up on if I win or not and most of the time it feels like it's entirely dependent on how they draw vs whatever I have.
The amount of face damage they can do per man vs what you can heal is a pretty devistating difference and the health on some of the units make it very hard to even remove properly. Worse yet crimson boy makes wail a dead card most of the time, causing just about as much damage (sometimes more if there is two of them) than it solves or heals.
Other aggro type decks, the rare times I see anything other than burn are much more managable with the Corina control deck, as one would imagine with it being a control deck, it's just how it goes. The burn needs to be fixed. I'm not sure how too rather it's making cards easier to remove or reducing the amount of burn damage capable or simply increasing the cost of some of the units. But something, in my strict opinion, needs to be done with them.
While my winrate has definitely improved with a proper control deck and I am climbing far better than before, it simply in the end has opened my eyes to just how over the top burn is currently. I would be very surprised not to see changes to it in future patches. That said, my mini-conclusion/rant is over so I want to thank everyone in this thread for their advice, it has helped me a ton.
I ended up really like the Corina control deck and after playing around with a few more, I think control and more control oriented mid-range are the kind of decks I like. So I went ahead and crafted a Corina and a Heimer/Vi deck and am having a ton of fun with them despite so many games just burning alive. I tried some Demacia decks so I could use Radiant guardian and while very effective, none of the decks I tried really clicked with me, just kinda boring to play.
Also, just in case someone wants to point out the obvious, yes I could just play the burn deck too and I have, since it's also super cheap to make and play. My god was it mindless and boring. Smash face, if not winning within 5 minutes, surrender, repeat and the sheer amount of fast wins completely outweight surrendering slow but winnable games. So, deleted the deck. It sucked. Felt almost as bad/boring to play as it does facing it.
tl;dr Made Corina control, like it, better results, very cemented into the thought process that the current iteration of burn needs to be nerfed, not aggro as a whole. Thanking everyone for making my first thread so useful and informative, thank yah guys!
I am a bit shocked that a "relatively new player" is bringing such a legit question to the table but getting so many poor answers from experienced users.
Deep Answer: With the exception of Lifesteal units, Heal cards are not cost-effective in this game. There is a good reason why Burn aggro is the top S tier deck right now. Cards like Withering Wail can even do more harm then good due Crimson Disciple and Transfusion Grasp of the Undying is another joke. Best target is Crimson Disciple, paying 3 extra mana to heal 3 is terrible. Vile Feast is decent, and just decent. Killing a Legion Grenadier to get a 1/1 token while taking 1 to the face is not exactly a great trade / counter play. I just counted, burn aggro has a grand total of 48 direct damage to the nexus. Good luck enduring the early game just to lose the middle game.
Sustained Life gain effects is the answer. Search your collection for good Lifesteal keyword units or implement a strategy to beat then before they burn you. There is no other way.
Alright, I'll try that out. As to everyone else, I appreciate all the responses! I'm still in the process of trying out a lot of different decks so I'm not even sure what I like to play yet, much less what is currently good that fits my play style closest, I just know that burn is irritating to no end. I'll definitely try out the control deck suggested in an earlier post and I'll give lifesteal units a try.
As a side question, are there any decent decks that run Hecarim or Swain currently? Both of these cards landed in my collection recently and they're both pretty interesting to me, so I'm wondering if anyone has any decent build suggestions. Figured I'd ask here first as an aside instead of constructing any entirely new thread.
Did you fail to notice the unyielding spirit on the card? It can't be damaged or killed. It's a stupid card with very few counters. Recall, obliterate or silence...that is it. Also since it's a champion, silence isn't even an option.
Oh my bad. I haven't seen that card in play yet so I wasn't aware that that's what the icon indicates.
I'm not too sure about the card myself to be honest. It really feels like a "if you can't answer this you lose" card. And it being an 8 mana burst spell (if I'm right) with very limited counters it seems quite strong. Especially considering Demacia Bannermen being as strong as they are and easily able to slot in a copy, makes the card all the more toxic.
Pretty much how I feel about it. It's off-meta currently and one of it's (very few) counters is decently common, which is will of Ionia. However, I personally don't feel this excuses the card. If you're playing a deck that isn't Ionia your options become....basically zero against it and depending on who you use it on, it can just about be an instant lose.
Off meta or not I don't think it's right for ANY card to have so few answers. First off, since you can't silence champions and that is one of the few options you have against the card, I feel like it shouldn't be able to be applied to champions. It needs further changes, frankly I think the "Can't be killed" Line is complete overkill and it be fine at not being able to take damage.
Either way, I'm in no way a balance expert. I just don't like the card, I don't think it should exist as is and I hope it never ever becomes a main stay in any meta deck.
Simple question hopefully with a simple answer. I'm relatively new to the game as one might imagine and I'm just completely over burn decks at this point. I don't mind aggro, hell I don't even mind all the elusives I face, but the burn decks imparticular have just about turned me off playing because it's all I ever see.
Hoping someone more experienced here could help me make a deck or point me towards one that is good at countering the burn decks. I'm not trying to climb super fast or anything, I'm just tired of lulunavoidabledamage all day. It's not fun being on a hard timer from turn one >>. Thanks for the advice in advanced, I really appreciate it.
Did you fail to notice the unyielding spirit on the card? It can't be damaged or killed. It's a stupid card with very few counters. Recall, obliterate or silence...that is it. Also since it's a champion, silence isn't even an option.
Well after playing Corina, I feel like I can safely say the burn in this game is over the top. While I agree from past experience control decks do generally beat aggro, the burn deck that is being used right now I feel falls into it's own catagory. Unless I draw extremely well, it's a very big toss up on if I win or not and most of the time it feels like it's entirely dependent on how they draw vs whatever I have.
The amount of face damage they can do per man vs what you can heal is a pretty devistating difference and the health on some of the units make it very hard to even remove properly. Worse yet crimson boy makes wail a dead card most of the time, causing just about as much damage (sometimes more if there is two of them) than it solves or heals.
Other aggro type decks, the rare times I see anything other than burn are much more managable with the Corina control deck, as one would imagine with it being a control deck, it's just how it goes. The burn needs to be fixed. I'm not sure how too rather it's making cards easier to remove or reducing the amount of burn damage capable or simply increasing the cost of some of the units. But something, in my strict opinion, needs to be done with them.
While my winrate has definitely improved with a proper control deck and I am climbing far better than before, it simply in the end has opened my eyes to just how over the top burn is currently. I would be very surprised not to see changes to it in future patches. That said, my mini-conclusion/rant is over so I want to thank everyone in this thread for their advice, it has helped me a ton.
I ended up really like the Corina control deck and after playing around with a few more, I think control and more control oriented mid-range are the kind of decks I like. So I went ahead and crafted a Corina and a Heimer/Vi deck and am having a ton of fun with them despite so many games just burning alive. I tried some Demacia decks so I could use Radiant guardian and while very effective, none of the decks I tried really clicked with me, just kinda boring to play.
Also, just in case someone wants to point out the obvious, yes I could just play the burn deck too and I have, since it's also super cheap to make and play. My god was it mindless and boring. Smash face, if not winning within 5 minutes, surrender, repeat and the sheer amount of fast wins completely outweight surrendering slow but winnable games. So, deleted the deck. It sucked. Felt almost as bad/boring to play as it does facing it.
tl;dr Made Corina control, like it, better results, very cemented into the thought process that the current iteration of burn needs to be nerfed, not aggro as a whole. Thanking everyone for making my first thread so useful and informative, thank yah guys!
Alright, I'll try that out. As to everyone else, I appreciate all the responses! I'm still in the process of trying out a lot of different decks so I'm not even sure what I like to play yet, much less what is currently good that fits my play style closest, I just know that burn is irritating to no end. I'll definitely try out the control deck suggested in an earlier post and I'll give lifesteal units a try.
As a side question, are there any decent decks that run Hecarim or Swain currently? Both of these cards landed in my collection recently and they're both pretty interesting to me, so I'm wondering if anyone has any decent build suggestions. Figured I'd ask here first as an aside instead of constructing any entirely new thread.
Pretty much how I feel about it. It's off-meta currently and one of it's (very few) counters is decently common, which is will of Ionia. However, I personally don't feel this excuses the card. If you're playing a deck that isn't Ionia your options become....basically zero against it and depending on who you use it on, it can just about be an instant lose.
Off meta or not I don't think it's right for ANY card to have so few answers. First off, since you can't silence champions and that is one of the few options you have against the card, I feel like it shouldn't be able to be applied to champions. It needs further changes, frankly I think the "Can't be killed" Line is complete overkill and it be fine at not being able to take damage.
Either way, I'm in no way a balance expert. I just don't like the card, I don't think it should exist as is and I hope it never ever becomes a main stay in any meta deck.
Simple question hopefully with a simple answer. I'm relatively new to the game as one might imagine and I'm just completely over burn decks at this point. I don't mind aggro, hell I don't even mind all the elusives I face, but the burn decks imparticular have just about turned me off playing because it's all I ever see.
Hoping someone more experienced here could help me make a deck or point me towards one that is good at countering the burn decks. I'm not trying to climb super fast or anything, I'm just tired of lulunavoidabledamage all day. It's not fun being on a hard timer from turn one >>. Thanks for the advice in advanced, I really appreciate it.
Did you fail to notice the unyielding spirit on the card? It can't be damaged or killed. It's a stupid card with very few counters. Recall, obliterate or silence...that is it. Also since it's a champion, silence isn't even an option.